Europa Universalis IV Developer diary 15 - Et tu Brute?

Europa Universalis IV Developer diary 15 - Et tu Brute?

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Avrelianvs

First Lieutenant
5 Badges
Nov 16, 2008
248
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
By this math it is impossible to re-elect a leader in the first 20 years as a republic, without changing back to a despotic monarchy. And the 10% is that percentage points or 10% of your current tradition? So if I'm at 30% republican tradition, if I re-elect am I at 27% or at 20%? I like the idea of republican tradition, but re-electing leaders should be a viable option, and actually kind of the normal mode (people prefer to vote for what they know, president have a tendency to get re-elected right?). I would also prefer at least the choice to become a republican dictatorship instead of a despotic monarchy.
It's important to know how frequent are the elections, IMO. If we take the USA system, they have Presidential elections every 4 years, and before they made a law in that sense (after Roosevelt) it was still tradition (enstablished from Washington himself when he refused the third mandate arguing it was dangerous for the democracy to have so much power in one man hands for so much time) that a President shouldn't stay in position for more than 2 mandates, a.k.a. 8 years. To make this realistic, it should be possible to re-elect someone once without losing the Republic form. So they need to loosen up a little the parameters.
 

Andy_Dandy

General
53 Badges
Jan 20, 2007
2.242
424
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Seems like Johan still has holiday. I fear for todays DD.....
 
Last edited:

Olle-Nappe

Lord Admiral
49 Badges
Nov 4, 2009
6
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
They said they would be back after the 6th of January. So there might not be one today.
 

albso437

I am not, I'm not really here.
79 Badges
Sep 28, 2000
2.383
414
  • 500k Club
  • Diplomacy
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III
  • PDXCON 2017 Standard Ticket holder
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • 200k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
On other hand, they made a DD for The Republic yesterday so there is still a chance for a EU4 DD I think.
Not the same persons that make EUIV and The Republic so the DD yesterday means nothing.
 

Nyrael

Field Marshal
77 Badges
Jul 20, 2008
5.691
4.069
30
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
Not the same persons that make EUIV and The Republic so the DD yesterday means nothing.
Not the same people, but the company is the same as is the business model. While it is no guarantee, the fact that CK2's DLC got a DD (though a day later) does make it more possible (which is more than nothing).
 

Stadhouder

Colonel
75 Badges
Aug 30, 2011
919
506
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Magicka
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
It's important to know how frequent are the elections
Well, it seems pretty safe to assume it will be more frequent than one every 20 years. In EU3 it's every 4 years for most, every 8 years for noble republic and on death for a few others.

If we take the USA system, they have Presidential elections every 4 years, and before they made a law in that sense (after Roosevelt) it was still tradition (enstablished from Washington himself when he refused the third mandate arguing it was dangerous for the democracy to have so much power in one man hands for so much time) that a President shouldn't stay in position for more than 2 mandates, a.k.a. 8 years. To make this realistic, it should be possible to re-elect someone once without losing the Republic form. So they need to loosen up a little the parameters.
The refusal of Washington shows the same train of thought as PDS, if some-one is re-elected too often, it's a threat to democracy and they have a point. But I agree with you. Washington did a second term as first President, and I think that should be something that under normal circumstances should also be possible in EU4.

Also if you think about it, republican tradition should be easier to maintain the more democratic your republican form is. The way it's described it's the other way around. If every republic gains 1% tradition per year, republic forms like noble republic will have an easier time to keep tradition high while sometimes re-electing a ruler than republic forms with elections every 4 years, while forms as a republican dictatorship don't have to worry about losing tradition with re-election as at all, since they only elect a new ruler when the old one dies. So I think the more democratic forms of republic should either have a faster growth rate of tradition or get at least much less of those events where you have to choose between losing tradition or losing stability (or a bit of both).

It would also be better if re-electing a ruler would cost more tradition the more often you do it. A second term should be fairly cheap, a third term should be quite expensive, and even more terms should but your republican tradition really in jeopardy and risk a dictatorship or monarchy.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(63836)

Field Marshal
Dec 25, 2006
2.590
3
If every republic gains 1% tradition per year, republic forms like noble republic will have an easier time to keep tradition high while sometimes re-electing a ruler than republic forms with elections every 4 years, while forms as a republican dictatorship don't have to worry about losing tradition with re-election as at all, since they only elect a new ruler when the old one dies.
Noble republic shouldn't be able to re-elect a king (who ruled for life). Election of his dynastic heir should be equivalent of that.
 

Stadhouder

Colonel
75 Badges
Aug 30, 2011
919
506
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Magicka
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
Noble republic shouldn't be able to re-elect a king (who ruled for life). Election of his dynastic heir should be equivalent of that.
I think there should be a difference between elective monarchies (like the HRE and I believe Poland at some point) and noble republics where a lower noble represent the state for a while (like some Italian city states had at the time).
 

unmerged(63836)

Field Marshal
Dec 25, 2006
2.590
3
I think there should be a difference between elective monarchies (like the HRE and I believe Poland at some point) and noble republics where a lower noble represent the state for a while (like some Italian city states had at the time).
My impression was that EU3s noble republic was based primarily on Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. But yeah ideally, there would be a distinction between city-states (like in Italy), elective monarchies (Denmark, Poland until 1569), and noble republics (PLC).
 

Closet Skeleton

Field Marshal
50 Badges
Aug 8, 2011
2.503
497
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • King Arthur II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
My impression was that EU3s noble republic was based primarily on Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. But yeah ideally, there would be a distinction between city-states (like in Italy), elective monarchies (Denmark, Poland until 1569), and noble republics (PLC).
I assumed it was based primarily on Florence, but I played Republican Tuscany before I even noticed Poland was a Noble Republic on later start dates.
 

unmerged(63836)

Field Marshal
Dec 25, 2006
2.590
3
I assumed it was based primarily on Florence, but I played Republican Tuscany before I even noticed Poland was a Noble Republic on later start dates.
I suspect that devs had huge Eastern European blob (with noble republic for 200 years) in mind when designing this type of government, not an Italian OPM. On the other hand though, it didn't simulate various aspect of PLCs political system.

EDIT

BTW - new 'the Commonwealth' tag shown in one of the EU4's DD screenshots has Noble Republic as a type of government.
 
Last edited:

Avrelianvs

First Lieutenant
5 Badges
Nov 16, 2008
248
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
It would also be better if re-electing a ruler would cost more tradition the more often you do it. A second term should be fairly cheap, a third term should be quite expensive, and even more terms should but your republican tradition really in jeopardy and risk a dictatorship or monarchy.
Despite the noble republic definition (which is a particular kind of republic, very different from democratic or even dictatorship) I totally agree with your idea of a progressive penalty for republic tradition. It could be for example 2% penalty for the first re-election, 4% for the second, 8% for the third and so on.

So, if you have just founded a democratic republic, in 4 years you accumulate 4% RT, lose 2% due to re-election, remain with 2%. Second re-election (8th year of Republic) you have 6%, lose 4%, remain with 2%. Third consecutive re-election though, you have 6% RT but lose 8% so you automatically go from democratic republic to dictatorship (which, IMO, should be different from despotic monarchy).
 

Silver Viper

the "Dreadful"
5 Badges
Jan 13, 2011
128
13
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II
is there any chance of u guys talking about Persia? :-? thats a challenging country and the only big rival to Ottomans in mid-east, plus a big block to russian goal of "reaching warm waters of south". i rly like to know about it and play as that, historicaly has lotsa oppertunity for being great, neighbours to mess with and conquer, lotsa risk for decisions and a big chunk of potential for fun specially if u bring ottomans to their knees!!! hehe!... so what say u devs? :p
 

takedown47

Grand Strategist
24 Badges
Oct 24, 2007
3.544
1.276
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
is there any chance of u guys talking about Persia? :-? thats a challenging country and the only big rival to Ottomans in mid-east, plus a big block to russian goal of "reaching warm waters of south". i rly like to know about it and play as that, historicaly has lotsa oppertunity for being great, neighbours to mess with and conquer, lotsa risk for decisions and a big chunk of potential for fun specially if u bring ottomans to their knees!!! hehe!... so what say u devs? :p
Persia is sadly probably not going to get much DD love. I would love hear more about it though.