Europa Universalis IV dev diary 2 –The purge & all cards on the table

[unmerged(303218)]

Agents

I have a strong feeling that now agents will be basically molded into advisors, both kinds (henceforth called agents generally) recruited through events. At least really capable ones recruited through events.

Now they won't be single-use, but more like CK2's advisors - they both have a positive effect on the realm in a passive way, and can simultaneously exert a focused effect somewhere actively (on a mission).
I also guess each kind would have some 2-5 (most likely 3) missions, for example a diplomat:

• influencing someone's opinion of us
• organizing a multilateral treaty (convention)*
• acting as ambassador (offer transfer time reduced to near-zero)

*: organizing any treaty should take some time, especially if the needs of many members have to be orchestrated. For example, the preparations would take time (days) = 7 * (number of participants - 1)^2 / skill
Thus, an unilateral option (A insulting B, A declaring war on C, etc.) would take 0 days to prepare, as any envoy could give the message.
Bilateral deals (royal marriage, simple alliance, rights of military passage) would take 7/skill days, to represent both sides' attempts at securing a better deal before agreeing to a compromise (or throwing the offer back).
To arrange a coalition between 4 states, a beginner diplomat (1 skill) would need to spend 63 days, while a slightly more trained colleague (3 skill) could get the job done in 21 days.
To, ad absurdum, get a whopping eleven countries to sign a contract, our beginner would have to spend almost two years running about, while a seriously skilled one (5) could finish in 140 days (4-5 months).


Mind that concepts not mentioned by Johan, that is, about to stay, still will be rebuilt from the ground up. So there is really no reason to fear horde mechanics making it into the ready game unscathed. Much to the contrary, I believe a system will be created which allows hordes to fluidly consume each other, but prevent europeans from grabbing horde land easily.

 

[Jackpot15]

I have to refresh my concern from page 5 about the horde system:

Will this system be purged as well?

God I hope not.

I might be rather alone on this, but I think the horde system was one of the better features added into EU3. I think what needs to be changed is not the horde system in itself but rather the system of colonizing hordes(AI nations like Bohemia and Poland got a little crazy). I never had a problem defeating any of the hordes in combat as a reasonably sized nation(it was almost too easy as the Ottomans).

 

[KonradRichtmark]

I have to tip my hat at Paradox for daring to make such drastic changes, and standing up to the mindless conservatism that is all too prevalent when it comes to sequels. The correct way to make a sequel is to identify what made the original game good in the first place and preserve and build on that, while subjecting everything else to review.

 

[yqt1001]

What I think is the best thing here is that we know they aren't being rushed on development and are thinking it through. We won't lose features because they ran out of development time, just for them to re-add it in an expansion (ala religion in Civ 5). Very excited for the new game!

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Here is my guess to how the gain core mechanics will work. I think you will spend ruler administration points to set of a province modifier. This modifier will have a mtth attached to it. The mtth will be modified by thing like religion, culture maybe distance to capital. While the province modifier is active events will pop up for you to spend money and ruler points to either speed up or avoid slowing down the mtth of the core happening. Does that sound plausible?

 

[s3nn3n]

Spies: Good riddance! Better to handle their missions through other means.

Daimyo / Shogunate: Never played Japan enough to have a strong opinion, but I like the idea of a more generic faction system usable by all nations.

Magistrates: Good riddance! "sometimes needed far more than you had, and sometimes had your maximum of 5 but no real use for them" EXACTLY.

Cultural tradition: Won't miss this either. Glad to hear advisor system is being revamped.

Automatically getting cores: Sounds Ok. Will wait for more info on the new claims and cores mechanics.

Domestic policies: "removed domestic policies and administrative efficiencies" That's a big change. Interested to see what you have for the new systems.

Screenshot: Don't like the top right hand screen section at all! Much prefer the look of EU3 with "speed" thingy in the top, not wrapped in a quarter circle taking up bunch of space. Also don't like how the notification area is in the middle instead of the top and how it lacks transparency. And PLEASE give us the option to use a different default view than topography!!

Oh yeah, kudos on the bold new direction!

 

[Seli]

Uh, Mameluks fall of Constatinople?

Any Paradoxian here more acquainted with the region can please tell me the relationship?

Going by a message of Johan it might be related to the festivities in Cairo upon the capture of Constantinople.

Friendly relations between Burji Egypt and the expanding Ottoman Empire were fostered during Inal's reign. The Ottomans' capture of Constantinople and later conquests of Serbia were well-received in Cairo which hosted several festivities celebrating the Byzantine capital's fall to fellow Muslims. In addition to several visits between the gift-carrying ambassadors of the two sultanates, Inal sent his personal congratulations to Mehmet II in a poem and versified dispatch.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayf_ad-Din_Inal)

 

[Wallain]

It's good that you are willing to kill features in the new game. I just hope the new system that is to replace sliders will be even better than that.

 

[ANO1453]

Going by a message of Johan it might be related to the festivities in Cairo upon the capture of Constantinople.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayf_ad-Din_Inal)

Ah, thank you! I would have never imagined it.

This is certainly a point in favour for DHE, learning things by playing the game.

 

[unmerged(303218)]

Ah, thank you! I would have never imagined it.

This is certainly a point in favour for DHE, learning things by playing the game.

As we have been told - DHEs are for flavor and flavor only, not to railroad history in any way. They might have an effect in-game, but something that would be possible with a 'mundane' mechanic. For example, England, if it has the right circumstances, will get a pretender rebellion - just with extra flavor added.

And don't forget - it has been confirmed that there are 9 nations with almost as many bits of these spicy stuff, and over a dozen with not that much but still increased amount.
And we can always be sure that there will also be many general events, implemented in a way that feels alive. Or, if you feel bored, start an event chain yourself - throw an autumn festival or hold a grand jousting tournament, just to come up with two examples from CK2. Really, go play CK2 and come back complaining about the lack of flavor for anyone, I dare you.

 

[unmerged(463662)]

We won't lose features because they ran out of development time, just for them to re-add it in an expansion (ala religion in Civ 5).

The devs for civ5 never wanted to include religion. The reason for all these add-ons is because they realized that the stand-alone game was so bad that the original fanbase all refused to play it. For which I'm very thankful, if civ5 hadn't been so terrible I'd never have discovered paradox.

I dare you.

Try playing the same event chain over and over again. Gets stale.

 

[liamgamer55]

This is good I guess, but in the short term I'm a little disappointed by the fact not even one new feature was announced or talked about a little.

 

[Brent15]

A little surprised to see sliders gone - the others make sense to me. I look forward to hearing how they plan to represent internal policies.

 

[Concrete]

Well they did explain that they were getting everything except that out of the way quickly, seems a pretty good decision.

As far as my opinion on the removals go:
Spies:
As long as their substitute still allows for rich yet manpower lacking states to have a fighting chance at influencing the world then fine.
Do agree that the agent system wasn't the best for delivering this however.


Shogun system:
Fine and dandy, hope they don't represent it as a united state from day one though.

Trade system:
Has always seemed a bit dated to me, would be nice if the new system meshes better with other political interaction beyond embargoes and BB.

Magistrates:
I understand the role magistrates played but I never really liked them that much, in my mind I can't see an argument that they were fine as is.

Cultural tradition needed the boot as well.

Cores:
Can't argue that a better system for claims was needed, hope they don't go too overboard with nerfing expansion too badly through changes to cores.(Easy to nerf expansion this way is my concern, not saying that they've stated that they would like to do this).

Policies:
Policies were nice in theory but too rusty in practice. Hopeful for policy remaining a big factor in nation difference through whatever replacement system there is to be.

 

[Evie HJ]

As we have been told - DHEs are for flavor and flavor only, not to railroad history in any way. They might have an effect in-game, but something that would be possible with a 'mundane' mechanic. For example, England, if it has the right circumstances, will get a pretender rebellion - just with extra flavor added.

Uh, where was that said? If it was said, I completely missed it.

I certainly hope the War of the Rose event is more than a pretender rebel popping with a slightly different text, if the goal is to add actual extra flavor to the countries.

 

[unmerged(63836)]

As we have been told - DHEs are for flavor and flavor only, not to railroad history in any way. They might have an effect in-game, but something that would be possible with a 'mundane' mechanic. For example, England, if it has the right circumstances, will get a pretender rebellion - just with extra flavor added.

Hopefully - such non invasive, flavor only DHEs would be totally fine.

 

[Evie HJ]

And just a little this side of totally useless. The War of the Rose should be more than an easily-put-down pretender rebel, for crying out loud.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Personally, I quite liked sliders. I hope the replacement is a worthy one, that gives players similar levels of control over their country.

 

[BandC]

Sounds great overall. I agree with pretty much all these removals. Let's see what other systems they will come up to cover these.

So does that mean anything not in this list stays? Such as hordes and Chinese factions?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

And just a little this side of totally useless. The War of the Rose should be more than an easily-put-down pretender rebel, for crying out loud.

Even better - generic pretender rebel shouldn't be easily-put-down.