Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise Developer Diary – Liberty!

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I don't think we disagree that much.

I don't either. And I don't meant to get pedantic. I'd just like to see the Enlightenment play as big a role as the Reformation in the game. I think it was just as big a deal, and just as big a dividing line of history. The Enlightenment ought to trigger big game-altering changes to the game, shifting the Renaissance era to the Age of Revolutions. And the colonial revolts were a big part of that.

I just don't think that the main triggering reason of the American revolution were ideas about equality and democracy. Those were ideas of the few enlightened minds which wrote the constitution but I very much doubt Americans went to war with England over those principles.

This I mainly disagree with. The Enlightenment ideals really did trickle down into the populace at large, and it was a major reason the Revolution happened as it did. Mainly through the Great Awakening which created a mass evangelical fervor in the populace mixed with a challenge to religious and secular authority. It super-charged American society putting everyone in a feisty mood and making them disinclined to listen to authority.

The average America wasn't quoting philosophy, but he had incorporated the ideas into his worldview. Much as later economic populists hadn't really read Marx, but the idea that the people had a claim on controlling industry had trickled down as a legitimate thing to believe.

But yes, you're totally right that people revolting over taxes has a long history. So a massive colonial tax revolt is hardly out of the question.
 

kosarev

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If you need help with creating culture specific names for colonies im sure the community could help. I could do the Basque ones (not many basque speakers in your development team i suppose).
 

LiberiusX

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I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reputable scholar who claimed something like the revolutions in the Americas was possible before the spread of the Enlightenment. I think you'd be hard pressed to find one of the Founders of those new republics who would claim they could have done their work without the legacy of Locke, Rosseau, Voltaire, and their compatriots.

Winston S. Churchill History of the English Speaking Peoples. IIRC, he states this as I recall it: During the reign of Charles I through the Civil War, the Cromwell Dictatorship and into the reign of Charles II, the English colonies were largely neglected. During that period they learned that they had the capacity to successfully govern and rule themselves with limited interference from the English crown/parliament.

Sure, the Enlightenment was the catalyst, I agree, but the conditions were already largely there, though I concede that the USA would be very different without the Enlightenment being that catalyst.
 

LiberiusX

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The Enlightenment ideals really did trickle down into the populace at large, and it was a major reason the Revolution happened as it did. Mainly through the Great Awakening which created a mass evangelical fervor in the populace mixed with a challenge to religious and secular authority. It super-charged American society putting everyone in a feisty mood and making them disinclined to listen to authority.

The average America wasn't quoting philosophy, but he had incorporated the ideas into his worldview. Much as later economic populists hadn't really read Marx, but the idea that the people had a claim on controlling industry had trickled down as a legitimate thing to believe.

But yes, you're totally right that people revolting over taxes has a long history. So a massive colonial tax revolt is hardly out of the question.

I agree, but also agree with Comes Imperii. One does not have to know the philosophical intricacies of an ideology to support or fight for it. The philosophy of the enlightenment really did permeate down to the common people of the colonies. It largely resonated with them for many reasons, but also because of the reasons I stated above. These people had been left alone for decades. They had gotten a taste of life without some authoritarian monarch/parliament. When the tax man came from a government they no longer felt represented their interests, much less one they needed, you can bet your butt they found the Enlightenment an attractive ideology.

It's part of the reason 21st century America is so hostile to big government. It's a cornerstone of our culture to question anything that we perceive as becoming too powerful. That is something that has been passed down through the generations. The American Revolution wasn't all that long ago. It's eye-opening to know that my grandmother, as a child, lived down the street from an older man who had worked for John Quincy Adams as a young clerk, and I'm still in my 20s.
 
Last edited:

Metz

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The support independence seems somewhat asymmetrical. Could there be a sort of optional post-war payment thing? The United States kept paying France after the Revolutionary war, but once the French regime changed the USA stopped paying. This led to the Quasi-War between USA and France.
 

No idea

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One thing about tariffs and liberty desire. Tariffs amount to a quite small sum of yout total income. Most times they could be zero, because you dont really need them to balance your budget, so, what stops the player from not raising his tariffs so that liberty desire doesnt grow? The really good bussiness about colonies is trade, not tariffs
 

jockedahl

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One thing about tariffs and liberty desire. Tariffs amount to a quite small sum of yout total income. Most times they could be zero, because you dont really need them to balance your budget, so, what stops the player from not raising his tariffs so that liberty desire doesnt grow? The really good bussiness about colonies is trade, not tariffs

Hopefully Paradox buffs tariffs because they are completely useless at the moment. Since 50% of trade power is kept by the colonial vassal they need to rebalance income and buff tariffs to balance income for the overlord.

One gold province is currently worth as much as the entire US tariff pretty much.
 

Incompetent

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Could be fun to play a tyrannical empire with lots of military ideas, e.g. Prussia or Japan. Tax the hell out of the colonials, let them hulk out against their American rivals, then smack them down with your Übermenschen when they dare to declare independence. (In the case of Prussia, no need to get colonial ideas yourself of course - you start the ball rolling by seizing colonies as reparations for wars in Europe.)
 
Last edited:

Talq

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I didn't say the American revolution could have happened before, I just argued that many of its triggering conditions were the same as 1-2 centuries earlier. I don't argue that had Catalonia achieved independence it would have established a democratic goverment like USA did. I just don't think that the main triggering reason of the American revolution were ideas about equality and democracy. Those were ideas of the few enlightened minds which wrote the constitution but I very much doubt Americans went to war with England over those principles. Instead they went to war over principles of representation and decentralised ruling which were quite similar to the issues raised by the Aragonese 130 years before.

In the American case, unless the key triggering conditions 'have sufficient population to not be dependent on supplies and people from the mother country' and 'be able to fight off an acquisitive France without a protector' were the ones you were thinking of, you are probably putting too much emphasis on the philosophy and not quite enough on their actual size (they really were not all that big pre-1700).
 

TheBloke

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One thing about tariffs and liberty desire. Tariffs amount to a quite small sum of yout total income.

Hopefully Paradox buffs tariffs because they are completely useless at the moment. Since 50% of trade power is kept by the colonial vassal they need to rebalance income and buff tariffs to balance income for the overlord.

One gold province is currently worth as much as the entire US tariff pretty much.

Tariffs are currently so low because they have a -80% Overseas penalty. I am fairly sure that this penalty will not apply for Colonial Nations, because, for them, it's not Overseas.

Therefore Tariff income should be have the same potential as Production does at the moment. Even greater potential perhaps, because there are some high value trade goods in the New World, like Tobacco.
 

Novacat

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Hopefully Paradox buffs tariffs because they are completely useless at the moment. Since 50% of trade power is kept by the colonial vassal they need to rebalance income and buff tariffs to balance income for the overlord.

One gold province is currently worth as much as the entire US tariff pretty much.

Game needs more moneysinks imho. As it stands the only time money is tight is in the early game and by lategame you are reliably swimming in hundreds of thousands of ducats with nothing to spend them on except for more ships and troops.
 

roman566

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While this idea is nice, I do not see why a non-colonial power would want to involve itself in colonial liberation wars. No gain for a large investment. Even a colonial power would want to take out enemy colonies for itself rather than help them become independent.
 

dexterstclaire

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I wonder how colonial nations will affect trade goods i.e. if before you got a bonus for trading in goods like Tobacco, do you still get that bonus if those trade goods are controlled by the colonial nation or do they get that bonus?
 

dexterstclaire

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While this idea is nice, I do not see why a non-colonial power would want to involve itself in colonial liberation wars. No gain for a large investment. Even a colonial power would want to take out enemy colonies for itself rather than help them become independent.
Removing the economic powerbase of a competitor, leaving you freer to operate on the continent?
 

Umega

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Hmm, I'm not sure about this new autonomous colonies system, seems counter-productive to have a large colony and you won't even be able direct a colony to what provinces it can colonize. I may even end up not bothering to colonize as a european if I know the drawbacks. Also I know your trying to make these colonies to be near the same colour as its parent, but I would prefer to directly control and colonize overseas provinces instead. I'm not sure if I would want to buy this expansion. :mellow:
 

Incompetent

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While this idea is nice, I do not see why a non-colonial power would want to involve itself in colonial liberation wars. No gain for a large investment. Even a colonial power would want to take out enemy colonies for itself rather than help them become independent.

The same reason you force an enemy to release nations that you don't intend to immediately vassalise.

Also, no reason to say that you can't extract other concessions. This isn't a game with fixed war goals - once you are at war, everything is on the table.
 

Negru Voda

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will successful wars of independence increase the livery desire for other colonies on the same continent or in the world in general?
 

2757xx

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Can colonies join a coalition against their overlord? Can they start a coalition?