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Nyrael

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If I play as a native american nation and colonize into another region, will there be a colonial nation?

From what I understand, only states with capitals on other continents have to deal with Colonial Nations in the Americas. But what happens if a Native expands into South America... thats a good question.
 

blackchoas

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This is my question too. Colonial rebellion shouldn't be inevitable, you should be able to manage the liberty desire by being a good overlord.

I mean you can slow it down by not really gathering any tariffs from your colonies and there are likely events where you can decrease liberty desire at a price, but the colony will like end up being more costly to create and maintain than what you get back.


I also really like that the colonies can go out and get European allies to help them break free, I mean I've played games where I'm a big global power and could crush a colony but if they colony calls in France or Austria or another or multiple of the big European powers I could have a serious problem. Also how exactly does the Independence CB work, what causes ticking war score? Because if its they keep control of all of their provinces I feel like the Navy becomes so much more important as being able to send over a force large enough to put them down will be very important, while it could also be a serious problem if someone like England supports the independence and I can't get past the British Navy
 

nalivayko

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Current running theory is that Protectorates are something in between alliance and vassalage. Protectorates dont send any money to an overlord, and they can wage offensive wars, but they are also required to join any of their overlord's wars (and their overlords are required to join their wars)

Zaporozhian Host? Oh, boy.
 

Novacat

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As far as strategy games alone, I mean, Firaxis typically does a decent job with initial balance, or at least the exploits are deep enough that they aren't immediately visible. XCOM:EU had some graphic bugs but was basically balanced when it came out. Civ 5 had some obvious flaws but nothing really affecting the core game; exploitative strategies had to be executed well to work (like various tech slingshots) while Civ 4 was comparatively well balanced at release, IIRC. In Civ 5 they really introduced the new issue of balancing civs, although it's not that different than EU4's unique NIs and starting positions.

Games with mirrored factions and identical starts dont count.

XCom is hardly balanced, just that nobody notices the imbalances since its primarily a singleplayer, non-competitive game. Look at the number of balance changes Enemy Within did, then consider that Enemy Within has done more to FUBAR the balance than fix it. MEC Troopers for example have rendered Heavies almost completely redundant.

EU4 you have unit types, technology groups, national ideas, starting territory, and a huge myriad of decisions and events specific to a country. Civ 5, on the other hand, all the civilizations start off identically and only get a few civilization specific units and buildings.

Finally, EU4 was never meant to be a 'balanced' game. There are a number of imbalances directly engineered into it in order to produce a somewhat historical outcome.
 

Katarian

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I also really like that the colonies can go out and get European allies to help them break free, I mean I've played games where I'm a big global power and could crush a colony but if they colony calls in France or Austria or another or multiple of the big European powers I could have a serious problem.

It sound good in theory, but in practice given how late game wars are currently in EU4 it might not be that great. I'll wait and see how it turns out.
 

Mixxer5

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I mean you can slow it down by not really gathering any tariffs from your colonies and there are likely events where you can decrease liberty desire at a price, but the colony will like end up being more costly to create and maintain than what you get back.

Yes, but it looks to me like in CK2- "You don't want all of us to revolt, my liege? Then decrease authority to 0, pay us all your money and don't even think about rising these 20 levies remaining. Ever. And do it before we start a faction, because otherwise we will depose you nonetheless, without even trying to negotiate"
 

panionios

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blackchoas

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Yes, but it looks to me like in CK2- "You don't want all of us to revolt, my liege? Then decrease authority to 0, pay us all your money and don't even think about rising these 20 levies remaining. Ever. And do it before we start a faction, because otherwise we will depose you nonetheless, without even trying to negotiate"

To be fair historically speaking the majority of colonies especially in America all broke away from there European parent most of them violently. Frankly its a problem with the game that most of the time American nations don't even break away since this should really start to happen around the late 1700s.

Also can I create a colony in one part of America and have it break away and then make a second colony in that same colonial region only to have it break away too? Also what different countries would they form wouldn't they just end up with two countries of the same name? I mean this happens some times in CK2 or in converted game but its still wierd
 

DominusNovus

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What happens if the mother country is annexed? Does the colony transfer over to the country that annexed the mother country? Does it go independent? If independent, does it get its new name or keep the colonial name? (USA vs. Thirteen Colonies)
 

Nyrael

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Yes, but it looks to me like in CK2- "You don't want all of us to revolt, my liege? Then decrease authority to 0, pay us all your money and don't even think about rising these 20 levies remaining. Ever. And do it before we start a faction, because otherwise we will depose you nonetheless, without even trying to negotiate"

Sorry, but one must horribly suck at CK2 or not played more than one campaign to fail to control your vassal to that extent -_-'

blackchoas said:
Also can I create a colony in one part of America and have it break away and then make a second colony in that same colonial region only to have it break away too? Also what different countries would they form wouldn't they just end up with two countries of the same name? I mean this happens some times in CK2 or in converted game but its still wierd

From what Dev's said, after breaking away from their overlord the colonial nation can choose which country to form (USA, Brazil, Mexico, etc.) depending on their region.
I think it should also be possible for the provinces to defect to the independent state in the region. That did happen a few times after all.

DominusNovus said:
What happens if the mother country is annexed? Does the colony transfer over to the country that annexed the mother country? Does it go independent? If independent, does it get its new name or keep the colonial name? (USA vs. Thirteen Colonies)

After breaking free, a colonial state chooses a decision to form a new state (for example, Thirteen Colonies can click on the "Form USA" decision)
 

unmerged(26764)

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This generally looks good, although I do wish the system had taken into account the real reason for the colonial independence movements -- the Enlightenment.

Yes, taxes were the cause around which the British colonials rallied but the thing that really separated years of contented colonial empires and the age of revolution was the Enlightenment. As people came to question authority, and came to instead believe rationalism ought to govern in all things -- creating the scientific method, challenges to religious authority, the creation of social science, and ultimately revolutionary movements -- the idea of colonial empire became increasingly untenable.

The birth of the Enlightenment ought to trigger an increase in liberty, not tax rates. (And for that matter lead to many additional affects because it's really what led to the end of the renaissance and the birth of the modern age. It ought to be a huge in game event like the Reformation, and a big trigger for world shaping events all around the western world.)

I'd really hate to see colonies revolting in 1640 because of taxes. And I'd hate to see contented colonies in 1780 for any reason.
 

apg

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This generally looks good, although I do wish the system had taken into account the real reason for the colonial independence movements -- the Enlightenment.

Yes, taxes were the cause around which the British colonials rallied but the thing that really separated years of contented colonial empires and the age of revolution was the Enlightenment. As people came to question authority, and came to instead believe rationalism ought to govern in all things -- creating the scientific method, challenges to religious authority, the creation of social science, and ultimately revolutionary movements -- the idea of colonial empire became increasingly untenable.

The birth of the Enlightenment ought to trigger an increase in liberty, not tax rates. (And for that matter lead to many additional affects because it's really what led to the end of the renaissance and the birth of the modern age. It ought to be a huge in game event like the Reformation, and a big trigger for world shaping events all around the western world.)

I'd really hate to see colonies revolting in 1640 because of taxes. And I'd hate to see contented colonies in 1780 for any reason.

hear hear!
 

Stategem161803

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One thing I don't want to see is the sort of masochism we find with punitive wars. As many of us know, the ai will declare punitive wars often times even after they have lost 5 times in a row. Now with coalitions, you can simply lose some stuff and they will stop, but with colonial nations, what's to stop a continuous cycle of revolt, lower liberty desire, tick liberty desire back up, revolt, and so on?

I love that countries will fight for independence, but once I put them down, they need to know their place and not waste my time.

Edit: I guess my question is will they be opportunistic(as they should be) or will they simply check the table, see liberty desire > 50%, revolt?
 

Jace

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I like the idea lets just hope tho if you are overlord nation and you win the war you wont have refight that same war every ten years or so. Maybe give a long cool down on the ability to re declare war if you were the colonial nation something along the lines of maybe 20 years at least?
 

levithan123

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My guess for Protectorates.

It's an upgraded form of the Trade Treaty. They give a percentage of there trade power say 50%, and in return you must protect them if they are Dowed. So it's like a guarantee but you get trade power for it, and it's enforced. However they are not called into wars on you, or by you.
 

Frederick III

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Oh. I have a question about how colonies interact with religion. If you found a colonial state when you're Catholic, and later convert to one of the Protestant religions, does the state religion of the colonial state change as well? Do you have any tools to change their religion if not?
 

jockedahl

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I've said in some threads that I've wanted a vassal that gives trade power so it's actually worth it to expand with vassals in asia.

The expansion idea group improves vassal management but vassals are useless to have in colonial regions because they give no trade power.

My guess for the protectorate is that it's simply a vassal that gives trade power rather than income.
Don't think it's just a treaty, that you do through the diplomatic screen. I think it's something you have to go to war and force the nation into. Otherwise it would be too easy to take all of traderoutes if you are first.

If we look at the picture we can see trade power in the first column. I don't know if they will give 50% or 100%. I would lean towards 50% since it seems to be the case for colonial nations. I would like 100% more though. Since you don't get any other income you should totally monopolize trade.
 
Last edited:

penco

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These mechanics sound interesting, but I am disappointed that desire for independence is yet another mechanic that is simply a function of dumping in monarch points. You'd think there could be more to it than that...

Religious tension? Cultural composition? Having too much power in their trade nodes? Generally being an international douche? Low prestige? Low legitimacy? Wars against cultural kin?

There are opportunities to make this a lot more engaging and immersive than hiding it behind the vague abstraction of monarch points. If anything, monarch points should be spent to keep independence desire down, whereas it increases at a regular rate determined by factors such as the above. And why limit it to a single type of monarch point? It's just as easy to imagine squelching overseas dissent with diplomacy or military as "administration."
 

TheBloke

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Edit: I guess my question is will they be opportunistic(as they should be) or will they simply check the table, see liberty desire > 50%, revolt?

I am sure that they will at least have the same kind of reasoning as current AI DOWs do. They'll be able to make some consideration of relative military strength, and what allies the overlord has and what they have.

Not that the AI is currently perfect in this regard, indeed it's sometimes way off (e.g. the issues some people have where their vassals get DOW'd despite them, the overlord, being super powerful.)

But it's definitely not going to look at only Liberty Desire when deciding, I'm sure.