Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise dev diary 6: Colonial nations

[afb]

How's that supposed to work if there's both an East Frisian America and a Ragusan America, or some such? Only one can turn into USA and the other will forever be a colonial state?

Suppose East Frisian America forms the USA I'd imagine that Ragusan America could still break free from their colonial overlord but would still be called Ragusan America. I'd also imagine that East Frisian America wouldn't necessarily be able to take the USA decision unless they own so much of that region that Ragusan America is basically a footnote. Just speculation, though.

 

[El Marto]

So new Granada will became Brazil ?

 

[Tiax]

Will cores for colonial revolters still be plastered across their historical territory without any regard for the borders of actual colonies?

 

[Novacat]

Will cores for colonial revolters still be plastered across their historical territory without any regard for the borders of actual colonies?

Colonial revolters will form differently now, there will be no more magical cores appearing out of nowhere and instead it will be decisions for breakaway Colonial nations to form their state.

 

[Darkath]

Colonial nations will fight for their independance if their nationalist sentiment (new resource like legitimacy etc.) is too high, and possibly form one of the unions available via decision afterwards..

So for instance if i'm GB and i colonize NA, the Thirteen colonies will become a colonial nation, and if i tax their tea too much and take all the money for myself, they'll start to be angry, and eventually declare their independance and fight me. If I lose, the Thirteen colonies become and independent state in its own right, and they'll later be able to form the USA if they meet the requirements.

 

[TheBloke]

If I lose, the Thirteen colonies become and independent state in its own right, and they'll later be able to form the USA if they meet the requirements.

What I'm wondering is, when they do become independent, are they like any other nation? Or do any different rules apply?

I ask because Gars stated specifically that it would not be possible to later integrate/annex a colonial nation. This most likely just means that you can't diplomatically integrate/annex, like you can for a vassal or PU. I'm assuming that if they do break away, they can then be DOW'd and annexed like any other nation. But I do wonder, based on Gars' comment, whether there's any further restrictions.

Logically the strategy for map-painters is to tax Colonial Nations to oblivion, then conquer them once they break. Which would be fun No doubt normal OE/AE/coring costs would then apply, so it will be interesting to see if annexed nations can be Sold to colonial nations - or indeed vassalised Tribal nations - in the normal way.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

What I'm wondering is, when they do become independent, are they like any other nation? Or do any different rules apply?

I ask because Gars stated specifically that it would not be possible to later integrate/annex a colonial nation. This most likely just means that you can't diplomatically integrate/annex, like you can for a vassal or PU. I'm assuming that if they do break away, they can then be DOW'd and annexed like any other nation. But I do wonder, based on Gars' comment, whether there's any further restrictions.

Logically the strategy for map-painters is to tax Colonial Nations to oblivion, then conquer them once they break. Which would be fun No doubt normal OE/AE/coring costs would then apply, so it will be interesting to see if annexed nations can be Sold to colonial nations - or indeed vassalised Tribal nations - in the normal way.

If someone conquers an independent colonial nation when they have a capital outside of the new world, they'll probably become a non colonial nation again. So if England creates the thirteen colonies, they gain independence and become USA, but England then reconquers them, they'll probably just become the thirteen colonies again. Might be very hard to maintain control, though.

 

[Darkath]

What I'm wondering is, when they do become independent, are they like any other nation? Or do any different rules apply?

I ask because Gars stated specifically that it would not be possible to later integrate/annex a colonial nation. This most likely just means that you can't diplomatically integrate/annex, like you can for a vassal or PU. I'm assuming that if they do break away, they can then be DOW'd and annexed like any other nation. But I do wonder, based on Gars' comment, whether there's any further restrictions.

Logically the strategy for map-painters is to tax Colonial Nations to oblivion, then conquer them once they break. Which would be fun No doubt normal OE/AE/coring costs would then apply, so it will be interesting to see if annexed nations can be Sold to colonial nations - or indeed vassalised Tribal nations - in the normal way.

Well, my guess is that when they become independent they are like any other nation, and they'll probably get a republic government form at their creation which means you won't be able to diplo-annex them any way but i guess it could happen if they somehow reverted to monarchy.

Logically, and it's all pure speculation, you can pretty much guess how it will work from what we know : wether you manage to diplo-annex them somehow or directly take land from them in a peace deal as a non-american nation, your provinces would become Overseas - since there's no way to have a land connexion with the americas - , so the land you just took would automatically break away and form a new colonial nation if it's more than 5 provinces in the same colonial region. Just as if you just colonized it.

A map painter would have logically to move its capital in the americas, if he wants to have a single name on the map.

 

[TheBloke]

Logically, and it's all pure speculation, you can pretty much guess how it will work from what we know : wether you manage to diplo-annex them somehow or directly take land from them in a peace deal as a non-american nation, your provinces would become Overseas - since there's no way to have a land connexion with the americas - , so the land you just took would automatically break away and form a new colonial nation if it's more than 5 provinces in the same colonial region. Just as if you just colonized it.

Oh, yeah.. that's an interesting point. That might be a bit odd. If for example 13 Colonies breaks away and forms USA, then you annex it and it's back to being a Colonial Nation. Also surely these Colonial Nation rules can't apply to all Americas nations, because what about the Tribes? Wouldn't they be normal nations?

Or.. maybe they're not. Reflecting the fact that no Native American tribe, at least not in the North, was ever really 'annexed'. They continued to operate as separate nations beyond the end of the EU4 time frame, and still exist today as separate communities with special laws, even though they're not actually separate nations any more.

So yeah perhaps they are going to apply the "independent nation only" system to the entirety of the Americas. If you annex a tribe, you automatically get a tribal vassal, which can be fed with other tribal vassals but never becomes traditional owned/cored provinces.

Anyway, all pure speculation as you say! Be interesting to see how they're managing all these edge cases.

I for one am very glad they delayed the patch/DLC for five weeks. The Randomised New World is difficult on its own, but that's far from the only complexity, I feel. There's an awful lot of changes happening and so much to consider and balance and test.

 

[Darkath]

My guess is that if you annex the iroquois for instance, it will become a colonial nation with the Iroquois primary culture, tech group, etc.

 

[Comradebot]

No, the colonies don't have flag files, they are just a combination of the mother country and the region color. The post-colonial states they can later form, like USA, Peru, Mexico, Canada etc. of course have their historical flags just like before.

Well then... are "post-colonial states" still just limited to the historical ones, hamfisteddly crammed into every colonial nook of the world to give us Louisiana in Alaska and Haiti in Argentina? If enough manage to break free, will it prevent anyone else from being able to do so due to all the colonial tags already being assigned? Or would they just retain the colonial name and flag and otherwise operate as an independent post-colonial state?

And, to add on, will the player have any control over the naming of their new nation, should they decide to take control of the colony? I'd love to have a little flag designer, name the nation, ect.

Final question: Ironman. Any reason we won't be able to take control of a colonial nation (with no backing out, obviously) while in Ironman mode? Unlike regular vassal releasing you can't change the balance of the game on day one with it, and you'd almost certainly willingly make yourself weaker to do so. If anything, it feels like we should have a "Founding Father" achievement for creating a colonial nation, taking control, and successfully gaining your independence from the mother country.

 

[Vityviktor]

When is the DLC released? Today or in January?

 

[Comradebot]

When is the DLC released? Today or in January?

January

 

[InnocentIII]

January

January 14th

 

[gardel va]

I would ask for options in the mother country-colony relationship. In the real world, Spain and England handled their colonies very differently. Spain encouraged colonies to have their own armies, but refused to allow colonials to serve in the government. England allowed colonies a great degree of self-rule, but discouraged them from forming regular armies. Those differences deeply influenced how the colonies behaved. If we're going to have "colonial nations," it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to capture those differences.

 

[mario1789]

What an interesting mechanic.

 

[Darkath]

I would ask for options in the mother country-colony relationship. In the real world, Spain and England handled their colonies very differently. Spain encouraged colonies to have their own armies, but refused to allow colonials to serve in the government. England allowed colonies a great degree of self-rule, but discouraged them from forming regular armies. Those differences deeply influenced how the colonies behaved. If we're going to have "colonial nations," it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to capture those differences.

I hope there'll be several decisions for the player associated with colonial nations, and not just a tax slider.

 

[Matrim_Cauthon]

My high school history is a bit rusty, but I can't remember a single event of brazilians being shipped to Portugal (or Spain under Filipe) to fight the latter nation's wars. So perhaps this is WAD, and colonial powers with smaller starting manpower pool will have to look at other ways to fight their wars.

The Brazilian bandeirantes fought in Africa against the Dutch and I think I remember some American colonists returning to participate in the English Civil War. But you're right, it was quite rare for that to happen at that time.

 

[I Walk Aardvark]

Beat me to it. For all the possible Arab colonies, Paradox can simple rename them "[name] al-Jadida." "Jadida Granada" just looks awfully silly.

I really like the sound of Granada al-Jadida, it makes me feel a compulsion to create such a country... But, I fear that for Jadida Granada, not the same compulsion arises.

Edit: I see that Gars said it may be changed, that's great!

 

[Captain Gars]

Suppose East Frisian America forms the USA I'd imagine that Ragusan America could still break free from their colonial overlord but would still be called Ragusan America.

Correct.

I'd also imagine that East Frisian America wouldn't necessarily be able to take the USA decision unless they own so much of that region that Ragusan America is basically a footnote. Just speculation, though.

No, anyone who manages to break free in a region where there is a post-colonial tag available can form it (in most cases, there are a few that have some restrictions to what provinces they need to own).

So new Granada will became Brazil ?

They can become Brazil if it's not already taken. They don't have to.

Will cores for colonial revolters still be plastered across their historical territory without any regard for the borders of actual colonies?

When forming a tag like USA, you will ger claims on the rest of that region (eastern_america). But no automatic cores.

What I'm wondering is, when they do become independent, are they like any other nation? Or do any different rules apply?

They become like any other state.

If someone conquers an independent colonial nation when they have a capital outside of the new world, they'll probably become a non colonial nation again. So if England creates the thirteen colonies, they gain independence and become USA, but England then reconquers them, they'll probably just become the thirteen colonies again.

Correct.

Well then... are "post-colonial states" still just limited to the historical ones, hamfisteddly crammed into every colonial nook of the world to give us Louisiana in Alaska and Haiti in Argentina? If enough manage to break free, will it prevent anyone else from being able to do so due to all the colonial tags already being assigned? Or would they just retain the colonial name and flag and otherwise operate as an independent post-colonial state?

Post-colonial states are indeed limited to the ones that were already present in EU3, but no, there won't be any Haiti in Argentina. All of those tags have a connection to one of the colonial regions each. Some regions like Alaska have no tag while others may have more than one.