Europa Universalis 3

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If they announce such a heresy as a fantasy/scifi game, I'll go on the barricades! Paradox headquarters will be stormed! Heads will roll!

Fantasy or scifi would be foul treachery!

Well, at least, I'd be disappointed. There are sooo many fantasy/scifi games out there and history is so unexplored, particularly on a grand strategic scale. Who on earth wants "Mutant Chronicles"??? It got merely a handful of votes in the polls...

If the polls are supposed to have any relevance, then it was a no-no for fantasy experiments.

 

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Originally posted by King


I think for the type of game you are proposing the AI would need to be sizzlingly hot. To get a reasonably realistic interation between the player and other families in the court would require a damn good AI. If not I think the game would not be as good as EU. The AI needs to consider not just what you are doing know but whta you have done in the past. EU simulates this using Bad Boy, but to be able simulate family fueds you would need a much more complicated model.

I don't see why the AI would need to be a different order of being from the ones that control opponents in most strategy games. How about... each person has a personality (DP sliders, religion) that controls how they behave. Most of this is public information, but perhaps some traits (trustworthiness?) are hidden, and guessed from a person's actions. Friendly families gain (honour?) points from helping each other, enemies from harming each other. A full blown feud could be something like a mission. It will not be as easy to become permanently powerful as it is in EU, because some day you will die. This could be the most interesting part of it.

 

[King]

Originally posted by Pishtaco


I don't see why the AI would need to be a different order of being from the ones that control opponents in most strategy games. How about... each person has a personality (DP sliders, religion) that controls how they behave. Most of this is public information, but perhaps some traits (trustworthiness?) are hidden, and guessed from a person's actions. Friendly families gain (honour?) points from helping each other, enemies from harming each other. A full blown feud could be something like a mission. It will not be as easy to become permanently powerful as it is in EU, because some day you will die. This could be the most interesting part of it.

Ok so far so good. We have the a series of vairables that the system captures to begin the AI process. the first problem is how to change these, what criterion would the AI use and what would it do with data that conflcits. The next trick would be in the interpritation of these vairables. The AI would not only need to work in knows but what it can infer for the data. Infering information is far harder, but would (in my most humble opinion) make the game far more of a challenge. This is very difficult to do, I am supposed to be doing this right now, but I keep posting instead.

 

[unmerged(6303)]

Originally posted by King


Ok so far so good. We have the a series of vairables that the system captures to begin the AI process. the first problem is how to change these, what criterion would the AI use and what would it do with data that conflcits. The next trick would be in the interpritation of these vairables. The AI would not only need to work in knows but what it can infer for the data. Infering information is far harder, but would (in my most humble opinion) make the game far more of a challenge. This is very difficult to do, I am supposed to be doing this right now, but I keep posting instead.

I assume you are talking about how you guess someone's trustworthiness. Thinking about it, it does begin to sound a lot like BB. But I don't see the catch yet. Noble A makes an agreement to supply the king with troops if called upon. He is called upon five times and fails to supply them once; his perceived trustworthiness is four fifths. Of course it would be nice if this were modified by how much the king needs the troops and how much noble A does; I agree these would be tough numbers to measure.

 

[King]

Originally posted by Pishtaco


I assume you are talking about how you guess someone's trustworthiness. Thinking about it, it does begin to sound a lot like BB. But I don't see the catch yet. Noble A makes an agreement to supply the king with troops if called upon. He is called upon five times and fails to supply them once; his perceived trustworthiness is four fifths. Of course it would be nice if this were modified by how much the king needs the troops and how much noble A does; I agree these would be tough numbers to measure.

No it is more generic than that. How to make a decision, the AI has some data. The AI then removes any of the contradictory data (having first to deciide which data is more realiable) and then see what isve left. As an added bonus the AI will try to infer additional data from the stuff it has already. Then the AI needs to know what to do with the data. I am trying to do that right now in a totally unrealeted problem it is nightmare. The thing is with out the abilty to infer new data you only get very simple answers. For moving armies around thats ok, but for real intrigue you need a more complicated system. That is purly an opinion from me here, to get a real game going we would need a shit hot AI or human players.

 

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Originally posted by King


No it is more generic than that. How to make a decision, the AI has some data. The AI then removes any of the contradictory data (having first to deciide which data is more realiable) and then see what isve left. As an added bonus the AI will try to infer additional data from the stuff it has already. Then the AI needs to know what to do with the data. I am trying to do that right now in a totally unrealeted problem it is nightmare. The thing is with out the abilty to infer new data you only get very simple answers. For moving armies around thats ok, but for real intrigue you need a more complicated system. That is purly an opinion from me here, to get a real game going we would need a shit hot AI or human players.

I think you could still have an interesting game without *real* intrigue, just as EU sort-of-works without any long-term planning by the AI, and you can program a computer to play chess. If a general's "satisfaction rating" when working for you is low, and your enemy makes a good offer, and you don't seem to be winning the war, and the general isn't trustworthy, then he will probably defect. The numbers involved don't need to be calculated precisely (I hope).

 

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Originally posted by King


.............

It is an idea, but would it sell???? I am sure that is Paradox's first thought when it comes to a game idea.

Of course it would sell - if you added magic and some really neat explosions and....

 

[King]

Originally posted by Pishtaco


I think you could still have an interesting game without *real* intrigue, just as EU sort-of-works without any long-term planning by the AI, and you can program a computer to play chess. If a general's "satisfaction rating" when working for you is low, and your enemy makes a good offer, and you don't seem to be winning the war, and the general isn't trustworthy, then he will probably defect. The numbers involved don't need to be calculated precisely (I hope).

I do agree, but I more thinking for replayablity. Looking at a game of the sytle you are talking about you need either a deep invovling plot (with numourous sub plots) or a really chalenging AI. The deep plot could allow you to play it several times without finding otu everything. The challenging AI would make it would mena that buidling your self up to certain point would still not be enough. I think this second problem is the one the EU suffers from. Looking at the posts in the forum people are expecting more from games than ever before, and is ain't shit hot graphics then it must be soemthing else. EU had the joys of being totally different which made it atractive, future versions of EU engine either need to add something different or offer more of challenge. This is purly my opinion.

 

[unmerged(2218)]

Originally posted by Clemens August
If they announce such a heresy as a fantasy/scifi game, I'll go on the barricades! Paradox headquarters will be stormed! Heads will roll!

Fantasy or scifi would be foul treachery!

Well, at least, I'd be disappointed. There are sooo many fantasy/scifi games out there and history is so unexplored, particularly on a grand strategic scale. Who on earth wants "Mutant Chronicles"??? It got merely a handful of votes in the polls...

If the polls are supposed to have any relevance, then it was a no-no for fantasy experiments.

Why don't you get my point?
Its not about US. Its about a new and different market. Paradox lovely as they are are not here to serve us they are in existence to make money. It would be more viable to expand into a different market than to extract demiinishing returns from the one we are interested in. I would wish Paradox every success with any venture they had using the EU engine for SCI-FI.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by sabrer


Why don't you get my point?
Its not about US. Its about a new and different market. Paradox lovely as they are are not here to serve us they are in existence to make money. It would be more viable to expand into a different market than to extract demiinishing returns from the one we are interested in. I would wish Paradox every success with any venture they had using the EU engine for SCI-FI.

That's fine if they don't take away any resources needed for the games we like.

(And yes, they are here to serve us!)

 

[Johan]

We are definitely NOT doing any sci-fi/fantasy game on the eu2 engine.

 

[Carolus Rex]

My goodness, what a surprise.

 

[unmerged(2005)]

Hail Paradox! No scifi or fantasy game!

And of course Paradox is here to serve its customership, that is us. Give your customer base what they want. That's sound economics. Besides, joining the fierce competition on the fantasy/scifi market by no means guarantees better sales than with historical franchise.

Lastly, I've got this gut feeling that the Paradox staff are the good guys, themselves prefering historical settings. After all, EU itself would not have be created without much idealism and perseverance, I believe. And don't forget: Greven might lose his job if he is not needed for research!

 

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The Pax Romana site is in French...I may be in French III at school, but it'd be much easier to understand in English

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

Yeah, that had me bewildered too, but then I noticed the Union Jack in the upper right corner. That makes the language English.

 

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Originally posted by Johan
We are definitely NOT doing any sci-fi/fantasy game on the eu2 engine.

What about a horror/suspense game based on the EU2 engine? I bet it would be tough to annex those eastern european vampires...

 

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your quote was soooo much longer than that post... I actually read it through before I realized it wasn't part of the post.

 

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Originally posted by Lord Joseph
your quote was soooo much longer than that post... I actually read it through before I realized it wasn't part of the post.

so I guess in your world Lord Joseph, my reply should be LONGER than my quote? Is that what you're driving at? Umm...I just read a reply tonight in fact by a certain Lord Joseph in which he used the dreaded 'I agree' phrase. I don't know--could be seen as borderline spamming...

 

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me... spam... never... I am concise

I don't normally post I agree, without some elaboration... which thread was it, I will go add something

 

[unmerged(2005)]

Originally posted by F18fett
The Pax Romana site is in French...I may be in French III at school, but it'd be much easier to understand in English

Gee, there's a Union-Jack you have to click and you get everything in English. I thought that is not particularly difficult to find. Additionally, the forum is predominently in English. Check www.pax-romana.com and click on the British flag in the upper right corner. On some resolutions you might have to scroll right. Good luck!