Eurocentrism & Age of Discovery - Update 19th December 2016

[Johan]

We're adding support for different objectives depending on where you play..

Here is one example, of two mutually exclusive objectives

Spoiler

obj_discover_america = {
allow = {
capital_scope = {
OR = {
continent = europe
continent = asia
continent = africa
}
}
}
OR = {
north_america = { has_discovered = ROOT }
south_america = { has_discovered = ROOT }
new_world = { has_discovered = ROOT }
}
}
obj_100_development = {
allow = {
capital_scope = {
NOT = {
continent = europe
continent = asia
continent = africa
}
}
}
total_development = 100

}

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

Excellent news, that is a great addition! Thank you for showing once again that you are listening to the community, this is a big reason why Paradox is one of the best developer studios on the planet.

PS: does this also mean that the Age objectives are going to be fully mod-able?

 

[Johan]

Excellent news, that is a great addition! Thank you for showing once again that you are listening to the community, this is a big reason why Paradox is one of the best developer studios on the planet.

Thank you.

PS: does this also mean that the Age objectives are going to be fully mod-able?

Yes. Ages are 100% moddable, and in pure text.

 

[Red Death]

Nice, this could also allow objectives like allying powerful western powers as non-western countries.

Another question popped up with me some time after that dev diary: What happens with objectives if we earn them, but then no longer fulfil them later on? Does fully inheriting a country make us lose the extra splendor gain?

 

[Johan]

Another question popped up with me some time after that dev diary: What happens with objectives if we earn them, but then no longer fulfil them later on? Does fully inheriting a country make us lose the extra splendor gain?

yes

 

[Mortheim]

Yay! One of my fears goes away.

Still, Ottoman ghost haunts me every night.

 

[durbal]

Eliminate (or alleviate) hard-coded age dates and the tag-specific bonuses and we'll be on the right track.

 

[romothecus]

Eliminate (or alleviate) hard-coded age dates and the tag-specific bonuses and we'll be on the right track.

Agreed... the OP just seems like "well we're giving half a dozen nations National Ideas, but then people asked about the rest of the world, so we added generic NIs for everyone else."

 

[net.split]

This is a move in the right direction at least for this particular issue with the system.

I think the example presented could go a lot farther. It's odd to provide incentive for nations in Asia or Africa to discover America, for example. The main reason the Western Europeans got into the business in the first place was to find another route for South Asian trade (India, China, etc) after the Ottomans took Constantinople and began doing things like blocking the silk trade.

A nation like Ottomans, Mamlukes, or Ethiopia wouldn't gain much of anything from discovering or exploring the Americas. They had other strategic objectives in this period.

I'm glad it's so open to modding. It looks like it'll need a whole lot of effort from some bright and industrious people to make into something that feels more right. Can the names of ages change based on your capital's location or culture group or other factor?

The 100 total development objective is a sensible generic goal for American starts though, especially for fantasy RNW games. It's still a "win more" type of mechanic, but that's by design so it is what it is.

 

[OldmansHQ]

I prayed, prayed like there's no tomorrow, and Johan answered me! Excellent. We're moving in the right direction. Now we still need to do something about only four countries per age being the chosen ones.

Edit: If you want there to be special countries then at least make them randomised or like with splendor, have them fulfill some criteria. Or even better, mix the two. For example, only a country that is not in Western Europe, and has provinces in and outside of Europe can get the sieging bonus in the first era (obviously tweak that to accommodate for Nogay etc). That would most likely still be the Ottomans, but it could also be Muscovy or Tunis or Golden Horde or even Venice. Make it, so that it's possible to sway luck to your side, so the more provinces on two continents the higher the chance. And for countries in Western Europe, have the exploration or colonisation bonuses randomised between them in a similar fashion. It opens choices, keeps the "every game is fresh and different".

 

[Benghi Bon]

This is a move in the right direction at least for this particular issue with the system.

I think the example presented could go a lot farther. It's odd to provide incentive for nations in Asia or Africa to discover America, for example. The main reason the Western Europeans got into the business in the first place was to find another route for South Asian trade (India, China, etc) after the Ottomans took Constantinople and began doing things like blocking the silk trade.

A nation like Ottomans, Mamlukes, or Ethiopia wouldn't gain much of anything from discovering or exploring the Americas. They had other strategic objectives in this period.

I'm glad it's so open to modding. It looks like it'll need a whole lot of effort from some bright and industrious people to make into something that feels more right. Can the names of ages change based on your capital's location or culture group or other factor?

The 100 total development objective is a sensible generic goal for American starts though, especially for fantasy RNW games. It's still a "win more" type of mechanic, but that's by design so it is what it is.

They need to change ages so much it'll take like six months before they "feel" right. I don't like it.

 

[Mann42]

Thank you! This makes me much more enthusiastic about the new feature.

I appreciate the dev team doing this, despite knowing non-Europe, non-Great Power nations are in the minority of played nations.

 

[romothecus]

They need to change ages so much it'll take like six months before they "feel" right. I don't like it.

This is so many Paradox mechanics though. Takes iteration after iteration to really get something worthwhile.

Although, yeah, Ages seem particularly egregious. So much reinventing the wheel with these...

 

[LS22]

Looks like a band aid. This, and sailors, and ZoC, and forts areas, tell me that Pdx isn't debating the impacts of the new mechanics looking more and more they're just rushing out new features with zero critical thought on it. Sorry guys, i think you should start to think more about the game, and less about DLC release schedules.

 

[Benghi Bon]

Looks like a band aid. This, and sailors, and ZoC, and forts areas, tell me that Pdx isn't debating the impacts of the new mechanics looking more and more they're just rushing out new features with zero critical thought on it. Sorry guys, i think you should start to think more about the game, and less about DLC release schedules.

I think they need to go back to the drawing board. I agree.

 

[siegeforvictory]

a step in the right direction, but I'm still not very enthousiastic about having to achievement-hunt every game(or lose out on the benefits of splendour).
what about having a maximum of objectives you can fulfill? for example there are 10 possible objectives, but you can only get a bonus for the first 5 you complete, so you don't have to go after the same objective every game. that doesn't completely remove the achievement-hunting part, and I still think I would ignore splendour if the benefits aren't too good to ignore, but it does offer some choice to choose objectives that fit your strengths, and prevent every game from becoming too similar.

 

[Philadelphus]

I decided to hold off on saying anything in the latest dev diary in order to wait and see more about the various ages, as I think changing the rules by age is a good idea but had some reservations about the objectives. This goes a ways towards putting them to rest. I'm still waiting for future dev diaries to get a better picture of the new feature, but thanks for doing something for the rest of the world.

 

[GamerGenc]

To be honest, I didn't understand the difference :/

 

[Benghi Bon]

Okey, I'll be a bit fair. It's definitely good to see that you're trying to pull this in the right direction due to the feedback received Johan, but I think ages right now is poorly thought out and unsalvagable unless postponed for a release far into 2017 - it's just that, it has a massive potential if done right and tied into institutions, creating dynamic historicity and incredible game variety and taste. What we've been shown so far isn't that. I think it has potential, but it needs a lot of work - thankfully, there's a lot of it around the forum talking about how it can be improved upon.

I care a lot about the game, so the fact that ages seems to be the one DLC I genunely never want to buy, speaks volumes. I am concerned about the eurofocus.

 

[Promanco]

You guys faced legitimate criticism and both address it and fix it in a week, my god I love you guys!