EUIV - Quick Questions / Quick Answers

[BarbarianHunter]

Have you been always feeding him like this, or did you do it the other way too, when you take all provinces for yourself and then grant them some from the vassal interface?

I think it's a case of a lying/buggy UI, there is also a case where you are reconquesting for vassals, and the returned core province modifier only gets applied when you use the return cores tab in the peace deal, not the clicking directly because the vassal will automatically get it. But IRC the LD reduction is applied in the latter case, however if you switch it out to return core, you get the opinion but not the LD reduction.

All but 1 province was directly annexed to the vassal via the peace brokerage screen. In a couple of past games I've gotten myself into trouble (150+ overextension) because the vassal would not accept any more provinces and as a general rule try to avoid taking the provinces myself.

I never use the return core thing (although now that you mention it, I surely should).

 

[jonjowett]

All but 1 province was directly annexed to the vassal via the peace brokerage screen.

I think that what you're seeing here is a bug - might be good to report it.

In a couple of past games I've gotten myself into trouble (150+ overextension) because the vassal would not accept any more provinces and as a general rule try to avoid taking the provinces myself.

AFAIK, the "Grant Province" subject interaction always gives negative liberty desire. Also, it's often cheaper (in warscore and diplo mana) for you to take the province instead of your vassal (because you probably have more expansion-stacking modifiers than your vassal). Overall, I think it's best to use "Grant Province" when granting arbitrary provinces to a subject. ("Arbitrary" means: not reconquered cores, not their claimed provinces if the war pressed their claims, etc.)

Before the age of absolutism, it's very easy to calculate your vassal's overextension by: selecting all the provinces you want to take, then all the provinces you want your subject to take, and do some quick subtraction on the displayed overextension %. (Or you can do it the other way round without any subtraction.) (This relies on your subject being 0% overextended at the time of the peace deal.)

From the age of absolutism, you can infer your subject's level of absolutism from their discipline and ideas. From their absolutism and the current level of tech, you can calculate your subject's admin efficiency. From that and your own admin efficiency, you can transform the displayed overextension from "overextension for you" to "overextension for the subject". (Or you can work from estimates - eg. never give a single subject more than 60% worth of provinces.)

The final option is to save before important peace deals and reload if something unexpected happens. I'm of the opinion that limited savescumming when the game doesn't give you enough info is absolutely fine - and this is especially true if you're just clicking a button while paused. (Others prefer to never savescum, which is also fine.)

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I think that what you're seeing here is a bug - might be good to report it.



AFAIK, the "Grant Province" subject interaction always gives negative liberty desire. Also, it's often cheaper (in warscore and diplo mana) for you to take the province instead of your vassal (because you probably have more expansion-stacking modifiers than your vassal). Overall, I think it's best to use "Grant Province" when granting arbitrary provinces to a subject. ("Arbitrary" means: not reconquered cores, not their claimed provinces if the war pressed their claims, etc.)

Before the age of absolutism, it's very easy to calculate your vassal's overextension by: selecting all the provinces you want to take, then all the provinces you want your subject to take, and do some quick subtraction on the displayed overextension %. (Or you can do it the other way round without any subtraction.) (This relies on your subject being 0% overextended at the time of the peace deal.)

From the age of absolutism, you can infer your subject's level of absolutism from their discipline and ideas. From their absolutism and the current level of tech, you can calculate your subject's admin efficiency. From that and your own admin efficiency, you can transform the displayed overextension from "overextension for you" to "overextension for the subject". (Or you can work from estimates - eg. never give a single subject more than 60% worth of provinces.)

The final option is to save before important peace deals and reload if something unexpected happens. I'm of the opinion that limited savescumming when the game doesn't give you enough info is absolutely fine - and this is especially true if you're just clicking a button while paused. (Others prefer to never savescum, which is also fine.)

Thanks for the tips.

My subjects are rarely @ 0% overextension but will try to change my thought processes re: the matter and take them myself then grant to vassal.

I have taken to playing Ironman (for what reason, I'm not entirely sure as there are some stupid things that are but shouldn't be that can be avoided by savescumming). I remember a few games back adding my present overextension (say 50.1) to the overextension the machine told I would get (say 49.8) and after the peace deal I ended up with 100.1. As to the 2nd paragraph advice, yeah well...maybe just sort of eyeball it .

 

[jonjowett]

I have taken to playing Ironman (for what reason, I'm not entirely sure as there are some stupid things that are but shouldn't be that can be avoided by savescumming).

Savescumming is still possible in ironman, it's just a bit more difficult. (Save. Do the test. If you need to reload: alt-tab, open task manager, force-quit EU4, launch EU4, load the game.)

I remember a few games back adding my present overextension (say 50.1) to the overextension the machine told I would get (say 49.8) and after the peace deal I ended up with 100.1.

One possible explanation for this is a change in religious unity in the age of absolutism/revolutions.

(Assume absolutism == max absolutism <= 100; and assume that your religious unity is <= 100%; and assume that the newly conquered provinces follow a religion that is not tolerated. Then: your religious unity decreases, so your max absolutism decreases, so your absolutism decreases, so your admin efficiency decreases, so your overextension increases.)

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Savescumming is still possible in ironman, it's just a bit more difficult. (Save. Do the test. If you need to reload: alt-tab, open task manager, force-quit EU4, launch EU4, load the game.)



One possible explanation for this is a change in religious unity in the age of absolutism/revolutions.

(Assume absolutism == max absolutism <= 100; and assume that your religious unity is <= 100%; and assume that the newly conquered provinces follow a religion that is not tolerated. Then: your religious unity decreases, so your max absolutism decreases, so your absolutism decreases, so your admin efficiency decreases, so your overextension increases.)

Makes perfect sense and I'm glad it's not the storied "Paradox Math" thing.

Still a normal level (easier) eyebell (harder) man though.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[DominusNovus]

I'm Montferrat (going to become Byzantium by way of Piedmont-Sardinia) and I just got a PU over Burgundy. I've got 78 Dev, and Burgundy has about 160% total Liberty Desire.

Any advice on burning through that LD quickly?

Edit: First time I ever scored a PU over a larger country (I rarely play countries where I'm a likely candidate to get Burgundy), so this is an interesting challenge for me. I do, luckily, have an alliance with France, so at least I should be able to win any rebellion.

 

[bokorthedust]

Is it a normal PU, or is it the Burgundian Inheritance? If the former, then the easiest way is to expand your own power if you can, so you have a larger/stronger army. Being on par with them in DIP tech, increasing your diplo rep, enabling support loyalists if you can financially afford it.

If it's the Burgundian inheritance, you will auto-inherit them in a few decades, once Marie dies. It's an event with a MTTH of 15 years after you've gotten the inheritance, all you need to do until them is keep them in the union, but that can be managed if you grow your armies a bit and get a couple of strong allies, France is a good start in that regard.

 

[jonjowett]

I'm Montferrat (going to become Byzantium by way of Piedmont-Sardinia) and I just got a PU over Burgundy. I've got 78 Dev, and Burgundy has about 160% total Liberty Desire.

Any advice on burning through that LD quickly?

• Improve relations to 200
• Spend prestige on the subject interaction screen to decrease liberty desire (if you have 81-100 prestige then you can decrease LD by 50 while paused) EDIT: Apparently, you can't placate PUs.
• Spend your own mana to develop the subject's land

NB#1: Spending prestige and developing their land are tracked as two separate modifiers that will tick down at the same time. This means that, if you rely on both, then you will need to continuously spend prestige/mana to keep LD below 50.

NB#2: You can't get more than -100 LD from spending prestige or from developing their land.

NB#3: If you got the PU from the Burgundian Inheritance event then you will probably inherit them soon. In this case, developing their land seems like the obvious best choice.

 

[DominusNovus]

Is it a normal PU, or is it the Burgundian Inheritance? If the former, then the easiest way is to expand your own power if you can, so you have a larger/stronger army. Being on par with them in DIP tech, increasing your diplo rep, enabling support loyalists if you can financially afford it.

If it's the Burgundian inheritance, you will auto-inherit them in a few decades, once Marie dies. It's an event with a MTTH of 15 years after you've gotten the inheritance, all you need to do until them is keep them in the union, but that can be managed if you grow your armies a bit and get a couple of strong allies, France is a good start in that regard.

• Improve relations to 200
• Spend prestige on the subject interaction screen to decrease liberty desire (if you have 81-100 prestige then you can decrease LD by 50 while paused)
• Spend your own mana to develop the subject's land

NB#1: Spending prestige and developing their land are tracked as two separate modifiers that will tick down at the same time. This means that, if you rely on both, then you will need to continuously spend prestige/mana to keep LD below 50.

NB#2: You can't get more than -100 LD from spending prestige or from developing their land.

NB#3: If you got the PU from the Burgundian Inheritance event then you will probably inherit them soon. In this case, developing their land seems like the obvious best choice.

Yeah, Burgundian Inheritance.

Lucky me, Austria even backed down when I refused to hand over Burgundy’s land in the Empire (which I was sorely tempted to do, since that’d solve the Liberty Desire problem quickly).

 

[bokorthedust]

• Improve relations to 200
• Spend prestige on the subject interaction screen to decrease liberty desire (if you have 81-100 prestige then you can decrease LD by 50 while paused)
• Spend your own mana to develop the subject's land

NB#1: Spending prestige and developing their land are tracked as two separate modifiers that will tick down at the same time. This means that, if you rely on both, then you will need to continuously spend prestige/mana to keep LD below 50.

NB#2: You can't get more than -100 LD from spending prestige or from developing their land.

NB#3: If you got the PU from the Burgundian Inheritance event then you will probably inherit them soon. In this case, developing their land seems like the obvious best choice.

You can't placate PUs, that's just for vassals only. Developing then should be used sparingly, because you'll also have to pay for their integration (and inheritable PUs usually aren't disloyal by the time your truce with them runs out), but in the case of the BI, when you get the land for free I agree it's a viable tactic.

Outside of that though, it ticks down pretty quickly, their relative power increases, and you pay more for their integration later. Except when they are really close and you've done everything else in the book, I wouldn't do it, I'd rather dev my own lands to increase my power relative fo theirs.

 

[jonjowett]

You can't placate PUs, that's just for vassals only.

I'd forgotten about that, I so rarely play as a Christian monarchy.

Developing then should be used sparingly, because you'll also have to pay for their integration (and inheritable PUs usually aren't disloyal by the time your truce with them runs out), but in the case of the BI, when you get the land for free I agree it's a viable tactic.

If you're panicking about ways to keep a PU, it's probably large and not inheritable (except by event), and it's probably REALLY worth keeping. (Eg. France as a PU under England.) So, probably, if the only way to keep the PU is to develop them then you just find a farmlands province and bite the bullet.

 

[bokorthedust]

I'd forgotten about that, I so rarely play as a Christian monarchy.



If you're panicking about ways to keep a PU, it's probably large and not inheritable (except by event), and it's probably REALLY worth keeping. (Eg. France as a PU under England.) So, probably, if the only way to keep the PU is to develop them then you just find a farmlands province and bite the bullet.

Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't cases where I wouldn't do it, I just like to exhaust all other options first. Keeping your rivals truce locked while you get stronger is also a risky, but valid tactic, at least I haven't really experienced randos supporting my subjects independence, and your rivals can't do it if they have a truce with both you and your subject.

 

[Saat98]

I'm in a punitive war against, well, half the world (an Indian OPM was the one who declared the war, but Austria and Spain are against me), and I find that Sus is on my side. How could it happen? As you can see, I'm not allied to them. GB joined me on a great power intervention, but I cannot see that Sus could do that.

 

[grotaclas]

I'm in a punitive war against, well, half the world (an Indian OPM was the one who declared the war, but Austria and Spain are against me), and I find that Sus is on my side. How could it happen? As you can see, I'm not allied to them. GB joined me on a great power intervention, but I cannot see that Sus could do that.

You really like them. Maybe they enforced peace on your enemy

 

[KaiserJohan]

Savescumming is still possible in ironman, it's just a bit more difficult. (Save. Do the test. If you need to reload: alt-tab, open task manager, force-quit EU4, launch EU4, load the game.)

So unfortunate that my game crashes when a terrible heir is born!

 

[Saat98]

You really like them. Maybe they enforced peace on your enemy

If they did, it's the stupidest thing I've seen the AI do. It was clear that the best result they could hope for was not getting stomped by Spain, and they could not contribute meaningfully to the war.

 

[pttaylor]

If they did, it's the stupidest thing I've seen the AI do. It was clear that the best result they could hope for was not getting stomped by Spain, and they could not contribute meaningfully to the war.

Maybe they think you'll give them something when you win the war?

 

[DominusNovus]

Best way to keep HR Emperor (Austria - my ally) from intervening when I take out Savoy - who is allied to a bunch of HRE princes (so I can't even attack an ally of theirs to keep Austria out of it)?

 

[bokorthedust]

Best way to keep HR Emperor (Austria - my ally) from intervening when I take out Savoy - who is allied to a bunch of HRE princes (so I can't even attack an ally of theirs to keep Austria out of it)?

We need more information. Are you in the HRE? I guess not, otherwise Austria wouldn't intervene if you attacked one on Savoy's allies. Is he a common ally to you both? If yes, then you could attack someone else first, call in Austria and let him be distracted, and a month later declare on Savoy and fight that war on your own. However if you aren't in the HRE you can't declare a war on Savoy if you are already fighting a war either with or against Austria.

If you are outside the HRE, your best bet is if Austria is either heavily in debt (not ideal, because then we won't defend you either if need be), or are rivalled to Savoy, but there's slim chances of that outside of the game start or if Savoy is a beast in its own right.

Also, what's the date? Savoy should leave after the Shadow Kingdom incident, unless he was allied to Austria at the time, and then you could use the distract Austria method to pounce on Savoy.

 

[DominusNovus]

We need more information. Are you in the HRE? I guess not, otherwise Austria wouldn't intervene if you attacked one on Savoy's allies. Is he a common ally to you both? If yes, then you could attack someone else first, call in Austria and let him be distracted, and a month later declare on Savoy and fight that war on your own. However if you aren't in the HRE you can't declare a war on Savoy if you are already fighting a war either with or against Austria.

If you are outside the HRE, your best bet is if Austria is either heavily in debt (not ideal, because then we won't defend you either if need be), or are rivalled to Savoy, but there's slim chances of that outside of the game start or if Savoy is a beast in its own right.

Also, what's the date? Savoy should leave after the Shadow Kingdom incident, unless he was allied to Austria at the time, and then you could use the distract Austria method to pounce on Savoy.

I'm outside, Savoy is allied to Austria. It is after the Shadow Kingdom, but I took their Italian provinces before it fired, so they're in the Empire. I'm large enough that I don't absolutely need Austria to defend me, but it would be nice to get a little bigger before I throw them by the wayside.