EUIV - Development Diary - 5th of May 2020

EUIV - Development Diary - 5th of May 2020

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Metz

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Can you add the 1472 event where Burgundy purchased Gelre?

Also if you add the Arpitan culture, you could make Arles as its formable.
 
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Scorpene

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It seems to me to be a big huge nerf of France. Not only will it inherit rarely of Burgundian lands (its De Jure vassal, not only in name), but BUR will ally with ENG, and easily get the Empire protection.

Whats more, already weakened by its Vassal, France will now be able to lose loyalty from its Vassal (!!!) thanks to Burgundian missions.

I hope that France will also have the mission to unite Charlemagne Empire too, and maybe that some Eastern German (+/-) tags can form it too. Whats more, up till François Ier it was a goal for French kings.

I really appreciate those missions and the work behind it, it will add much depth into the game and i love that. It will definitely change the game we play and provide not only fun, but good "stories". I Always consider the game i play to be alternate History.

I will for sure play Bur and Lotharingia (can Lorraine form it? :) ), but balance wize, I hope French tree will have strong missions, over Provence and Provence's claims (as IRL, which would lead to claims on Jérusalem, Naples, Aragon), over Britanny (to unite it without war, on a similar way to the Iberian Wedding)…. And on Burgundy, to get it, in game, as it was IRL, vassal. Of course that would be a Treason of Arras Treaty of 1435, but that could be a early game big goal (get Burgundy back as a bowing Vassal )

It would lead Western Europe to big early wars and would avoid to depend too much on a few event (Fate of Burgundy and Iberian Wedding).
Brittanny Wedding could occur once the English are driven out of France (Primauguet, avenged),
Provence Inheritance (except Lorraine) could happen on death of King René the good if good relation + high trust (which would force France to keep alliance with Provence, and, limit its alliance of other foreign powers)
Burgundy bowing again should be hard to get though, but around 1480

@neondt I never really understood how could France not have missions of Provence (get its land after King René dies) and on Britanny
 
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Manwe_Sulimo

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It seems to me to be a big huge nerf of France. Not only will it inherit rarely of Burgundian lands (its De Jure vassal, not only in name), but BUR will ally with ENG, and easily get the Empire protection.
Well Burgundy acted totally independent at that time so while it was De Jure a vassal it was not De Facto = it was a vassal only in name, also the Duke was only a vassal of France for its French territories while it was a vassal of the HRE for the others

I think the idea is to make the whole situation in the area more dynamic: France has a lot of potential in early with its vassal swarm, but it is also more instable and can disintegrate.

Recently most dev diaries where published later than they used to
 

gigau

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Once again, a DD thread is about the DD in the first post, not about the timing of the following DD.

The DD will come when it's ready.
 

Pbhuh

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Considering that Lotharingia is essentially Middle Francia, I think them uniting all of Francia and proclaiming it makes sense, it's like if a minor nation forms Byzantium then forms Rome, they are proclaiming that next level that shows it's a fully united empire, just how I see it
Lotharingia is not Middle Francia. Big difference.

Middle Francia was the previous state and was the one that held the emperor title, which was passed to the other state formed from Middle Francia. Italy.

To weigh-in on this whole Francia debate, I don't think that Francia should be added as a separate formable nation with its own missions, ideas, etc. I propose making it a cosmetic tag, with France having a decision to change their name to this that they can take if they own certain provinces in Germany and Italy and the HRE no longer exists.
Francia and France are not equal. France is the successor state to non karling West Francia. Similar to Middle and East Francia, they all were breakups of Francia.

They should not be confused and they are not the same.

If it helps the tag can be named Frankish Empire.

It is part of France because it is part of Burgundy which is part of france, It doensn't need french cores because it's in a PU under a french duchy. The point of missions is to guide the developing situation, and while Flanders is part of France it is also about to drift away from France.
Not really

Flanders is by feudal rules dejure part of France as the border of the Holy Roman Empire is roughly the Scheldt river.

It was still claimed by france, but with the war of the burgundian succession, france wasnt able to take back all the lands in its grasp and the peace treaty ceded it to the HRE. Without war it should also go to France, while Franche Comte should not
 

Scorpene

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Lotharingia is not Middle Francia. Big difference.

Middle Francia was the previous state and was the one that held the emperor title, which was passed to the other state formed from Middle Francia. Italy.



Francia and France are not equal. France is the successor state to non karling West Francia. Similar to Middle and East Francia, they all were breakups of Francia.

They should not be confused and they are not the same.

If it helps the tag can be named Frankish Empire.


Not really

Flanders is by feudal rules dejure part of France as the border of the Holy Roman Empire is roughly the Scheldt river.

It was still claimed by france, but with the war of the burgundian succession, france wasnt able to take back all the lands in its grasp and the peace treaty ceded it to the HRE. Without war it should also go to France, while Franche Comte should not
It's indeed important not to mix Francia (as Frankish Kingdom), and France. The Frankish kingdom was created by a king considered French (by French people), in Noyons, France, but it's definitely different. In France we use to call it "Charlemagne Empire" even if it's not correct neither.

@Manwe_Sulimo i spoke about Burgundy being "de jure French" not just in name, cause just in Name you could almost go up to the Rhine river. But no one took it seriously. While Burgundy in 1435 (which is close enough to 1444) Burgundy admit again to be a vassal of France. The only difference - which is important--is that the Duke won't bow to its King.

Of course, in means that in reality he is not paying him hommages. But you could definitely have a mission where the King make the Duke bow again, and Burgundy is now not only a vassal among other, but a subdued one.

Of course the main problem is that France having as vassal burgundy (except Franche comte and Flanders vassals) is a very big powerhouse.
But we could imagine that all of western Europe would feel a lot of agressive expansion from France, or that the mission have to conclude around 1500 and not 1480. Of course Austria would have to use all its might to avoid such a thing by proposing to, share Burgundy, whatever.

But France shouldn't be just considered a potential victim of Burgundian mission and not the other way around. It's not logical, game play wise or historically wise
 

Manwe_Sulimo

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I meant that the meaning of your statement is contradictory: if he is a de jure vassal, but he acts de facto as an independent country, then that means he is a vassal only in name, but no in reality, EU4 normally implements the reality not the legal techniqualty (the latter is often represented by DHE, subjugation casus bellis, claims or cores), "de jure" and "just in name" mean roughly the same thing in this context imo.

History is complex but the situation at the game start was that Burgundy acted de facto independent at the time of the game start and French only got those lands under control through the Burgundian Succession Wars which ended with partioning the country largely along the de jure situation, although the end of the HYW changed the situation and might indeed have allowed the French to regain control of the Burgundy, but its very plausible if Burgundy continued to succeed in wars and producing male heirs that they remained out of reach for the French

The French mission tree has missions to conquer Burgundy, the British have missions to force France in a PU, ... everybody is a potential victim for everybody, its not a one-way thing, I dont expect Burgundy to replace the French King like that mission applies in many games, but if it is an option that can happen in player hands or sometimes the AI, why not? its not like that mission can be fullfilled easily
 

TheDungen

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It was still claimed by france, but with the war of the burgundian succession, france wasnt able to take back all the lands in its grasp and the peace treaty ceded it to the HRE. Without war it should also go to France, while Franche Comte should not
the problem with this is it places provinces that's needed for the Netherlands to form in France which severely decreases the odds of there being a Netherlands.