EUIV - Development Diary - 17th of March 2020

EUIV - Development Diary - 17th of March 2020

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EquilinT

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All it takes is for one country to have +10% Morale or +5% Discipline and you already lose, most countries have that AND more, and if they don't have more, at least one of the two modifiers.
How about you show the test in a separate thread? You were pretty vague in the post trying to prove this one page ago. I'm not convinced that 10% morale or 5% disc are better than 15% ICC, considering that people have been praising Sweden's 20% and it should not be too different.
And I'll say it again, forming Italy as some of the major Italian states should not make my army weaker
If I form Italy as Sardinia-Piedmont in 1.30, and change to Italian NI, my army gets weaker, which to me is dumb.
How is it dumb? You are trading in for a well-rounded idea. Furthermore, Sardinia-Piedmont has only 2 mil ideas, mercenary maintenance (quantity focus) and fort defense (defense)(Italy also has this), none of which improve troop quality, so you're getting a straight upgrade there.
this won't break the game, this won't break SP,
I have a very strong feeling it will, people were already forming Italy in SP as Spain, France, and Austria.
If you still don't want a small buff to Italian NI at this point, we'll just have to agree to disagree and end the conversation here, because neither one of us will be changing our opinions clearly.
I'm trying to convince other readers to not take your arguments seriously by refuting it, and point out how it is either based on wrong assumptions or will break the game.
 
Last edited:

Battlex

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From all of them, I hope that austria's mission tree will be about uniting germany
They've already published the Austrian mission tree? You can get a gov reform or extra accepted cultures.
Mission trees available with the Emperor expansion:
  • Austria
  • Bavaria/Bavarian minors
  • Bohemia
  • Burgundy
  • Netherlands/Dutch and Flemish minors
  • Crusader States
  • Florence/Tuscany
  • France
  • Genoa
  • Germany/HRE (several unique missions each)
  • Lubeck
  • Hungary
  • Italy
  • Milan
  • Naples
  • Papal States
  • Provence
  • Brandenburg/Prussia
  • Savoy/Sardinia-Piedmont
  • Saxony
  • Serbia
  • Switzerland
  • Venice
I want to play a campaign as Aachen because they are the original Emperor. Reform the HRE as Aachen was my goal. I was waited a year now to start this campaign i did some practice runs in the mean time but were not special enough to be mentioned.
Now the DLC is call Emperor but you dont give Aachen same special mission tree.
In my opinion is after Ulm as koala OPM Aachen the most loved and fun to play.
So my suggestion is give Aachen some missions to became the Emperor
Hopefully there's more events on hosting the imperial election, the imperial diet, and circle diet, but just because Dithmarschen gets the funny USSR treatment, doesn't mean Aachen should be historically inaccurate, especially with how the AI will just conquer rather than vassalise, and so lose its free city status
 

EquilinT

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If I form Italy as Sardinia-Piedmont in 1.30, and change to Italian NI, my army gets weaker, which to me is dumb.
How is it dumb? You are trading in for a well-rounded idea. Furthermore, Sardinia-Piedmont has only 2 mil ideas, mercenary maintenance (quantity focus) and fort defense (defense), none of which improve troop quality, so you're getting a straight upgrade there.
After checking every Italian major (Savoy-SardiniaPiedmont, Florence-Tuscany, Milan, and Venice) none of them have better mil ideas than Italy (Florence might come close with 5% disc and 25% manpower), so it will be an upgrade for everyone.
*EDIT: I forgot Naples, who also come close with 10% morale and 20% manpower.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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Newsflash:
If you don't like NI of United Italy, just keep your old ones ;)
That's not the point, the point is upon forming a nation and acquiring their NI set I should be getting better, you don't form Prussia and not take their ideas, or form Russia and not take their ideas. Yeah there's a few exceptions, but as someone who plays SP, I don't look for the best idea set out there, rush to form it and go for WC because I don't know what else to do. Besides, I didn't say I don't like the ideas, I said they could use a buff, that's why I proposed merging the Stability Cost Modifier with the Yearly Prestige boost so you can free up a slot for a military buff.

Personally, i didn't had any trouble while playing and conquering as United Italy:
Offensive Ideas+Quality Ideas+Defensive Ideas+Italian NIs+Revolutionary Republic bonuses+Turning on millitary edicts (horse artillery, quality of arms) = you are pretty scary as it is.
And the AI can also get those bonuses and cancel out the bonuses and if they happen to have another military idea in their NI, which most of the majors have, and usually at least 1 of their ideas is better then yours. Regardless, I'm currently working around on the game to show why I believe Italy could use a small military buff to make them better and not just some 5% buff to one of Milan's starting Traditions
 
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*not actually quoting to avoid clutter*
Respectfully, I hope your suggestion goes unheeded. I like very much that EU4 is usually balanced with historically plausible outcomes first in mind, rather than meta arguments like the one you are making. Every country SHOULDN'T be able to match France and Prussia in the field.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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Respectfully, I hope your suggestion goes unheeded. I like very much that EU4 is usually balanced with historically plausible outcomes first in mind, rather than meta arguments like the one you are making. Every country SHOULDN'T be able to match France and Prussia in the field.
....

I literally said I don't want Italy to be as strong as Prussia and France... o_O

My god when will you people listen, there's a difference between SMALL buff and give them 6 more military buffs, like +20% Morale, +20% Fire Damage and god knows what else. I'm saying something like a +10% Fire Damage, something so they can at least make France go, "Oh, damn I actually lost some troops there", not brush the Italians off to the side. How is that historically breaking? Yeah I know Italy didn't exist during EU IV timeline, does that mean we should have make Italy have negatives because why not? Disagree? Go ahead. But actually read what I'm saying of a small buff, don't start accusing me of things I didn't want. Not asking for Spanish Tercios buff, or whatever. Just a simple, small buff to their military. Still disagree? Alright, just disagree on this post, no need to comment on this. Currently I'm working on tests on how you could buff Italian troops WITHOUT being a dominant force. I don't expect to finish it tonight though, I work in 9 hours so I kind of need to run to bed soon, but I'm almost done comparing Italian ideas to Naples and Tuscany. Tomorrow I'll probably start working on France, Spain, Aragon, Castile, Serbia, Ottomans, Russia, Prussia, Great Britain, England and anyone else I can think of that is a major player in Europe or has decent military ideas. Contratry to popular belief I want balance, that's why I'm looking for a buff to Italy. Besides in my current tests at tech 10, +15% ICA beats +5% Discipline and +10% Morale of Armies, separately not teamed up though. Which I'm sure will make @EquilinT happy to rub in my face or whatever. But those victories were nail biters until the end and in any normal game of EU IV, the ICA team would've lost a few battles, because I'm fixing the combat dice so in a normal game with a random dice who knows what happens there.
 

EquilinT

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Besides in my current tests at tech 10, +15% ICA beats +5% Discipline and +10% Morale of Armies, separately not teamed up though. Which I'm sure will make @EquilinT happy to rub in my face or whatever. But those victories were nail biters until the end and in any normal game of EU IV, the ICA team would've lost a few battles, because I'm fixing the combat dice so in a normal game with a random dice who knows what happens there.
Fixing dice roll is actually the accepted way of testing combat system and modifiers, or at least that's what i've seen on this forum. I'd be happy if you test it at different tech levels however.
The reason i asked for it to be in a separate thread is because the test won't have much weight without lots pics and excessive details of the test.
 
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....

I literally said I don't want Italy to be as strong as Prussia and France... o_O
I'm not accusing you of anything or attempting to put words in your mouth. I did read your posts, though you did not make it easy by writing in these bulky unbroken paragraphs. You may also want to take your own advice, as I said nothing about your suggestion being "historically breaking."

My assertion here is that balance arguments should be rooted in history. Showing that Italy's troops are weaker than any number of other countries' is one thing. But why shouldn't they be? What historical reason is there for them to be better than they are? It's difficult for a country like Italy that is already speculative, but I don't think an argument about just competitiveness is enough.

In any case, I'll leave you to have the last word. I'm not interested in convincing you of anything; just adding my own opinion.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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Fixing dice roll is actually the accepted way of testing combat system and modifiers, or at least that's what i've seen on this forum. I'd be happy if you test it at different tech levels however.
The reason i asked for it to be in a separate thread is because the test won't have much weight without lots pics and excessive details of the test.
That's why I fixed dice in my tests and will continue to do so and yes I'm working on a thread, though I honestly have no idea how long it'll be... Hope to be done by later tomorrow, technically later today in my timezone, and if not well then actual tomorrow, I want to make sure I have something balanced and everything goes right. I also plan to cover the Galley Combat Ability but I won't jump into that here since I haven't even started that yet. Anyway, I'm about to pass out, until next time.
 

Pzixel

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I didn't read the whole thread but

1. Does Muscovy converting to Catholicism requires Pope advancing in its mission tree? Because AI it pretty bad in it
2. Why I even would bother to convert them? Pope isn't that powerful to enforce religion on me, and Orthodox is a very good religion on its own (even with those catholic buffs). In the end, even if I decide to convert I'l get like 5% rel unity with lots of different tags on my lands => lots of rebellions for nothing.

What's the point here? Looks like a choice without a choice.
 

Battlex

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I didn't read the whole thread but

1. Does Muscovy converting to Catholicism requires Pope advancing in its mission tree? Because AI it pretty bad in it
2. Why I even would bother to convert them? Pope isn't that powerful to enforce religion on me, and Orthodox is a very good religion on its own (even with those catholic buffs). In the end, even if I decide to convert I'l get like 5% rel unity with lots of different tags on my lands => lots of rebellions for nothing.

What's the point here? Looks like a choice without a choice.
1) bonus is focused on the Pope I think, as then more tithes
2) this would happen once you've got enough modifiers to easily convert
3) you need to lose Moscow first the mission to fire, so as a player that ain't a happening
 

AlBa19nl

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Nov 11, 2016
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Furthermore, the only other Flemish tag in the game apart from Flanders is Brabant, so having the option to form Flanders as Brabant sounds rather redundant, not to mention that the Flemish tags already have a more interesting formable tag to go after: the Netherlands. Besides, Brabant was a duchy while Flanders was a county, so it wouldn't make sense for Brabant to demote its title. Ultimately, it seems that the desire to form Flanders is because Flanders is Flemish culture's primary tag, and the primary tags of other small nations in HRE (like Silesia and Pomerania) are now formables.
Flemish culture as a whole is a bit iffy in eu4 timeframe imho. There wasn't really a lot to set it apart from Dutch culture, hence why most of modern day Flanders joined the Dutch against the Spanish despite religious differences in the union of Utrecht (the capital of which was Antwerp, Flanders)

The distinction really only came about during almost three centuries of seperate rule with the Dutch independence and the Flemish under the Spanish and Austrians mostly.

During eu4 timeframe there wasn't really any entity the Flemish could realistically unite into other than the Netherlands which is why there is no formable Belgium