EUIV - Development Diary - 14th of January 2020

EUIV - Development Diary - 14th of January 2020

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klingonadmiral

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2. you actually need to ferry huge armies to India, Indonesia or East Africa in order to win wars there as a European when historically European colonizers (Portugal, Netherlands, England/Great Britain, France) were able to occupy land there with small contingents.
That's not quite true. Any significant European victories in India - at least before the EIC had blobbed to a critical size - were achieved with the help of local allies.
3500 dev is not tall by any reasonable standard, it is actually very wide.
And with Courthouses in every province this would become 5833.333 development, and if the upgraded version doubles the effect wou would be able to take 17.5k development.
 

AlazkanAssassin

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That's not quite true. Any significant European victories in India - at least before the EIC had blobbed to a critical size - were achieved with the help of local allies.


And with Courthouses in every province this would become 5833.333 development, and if the upgraded version doubles the effect wou would be able to take 17.5k development.
For reference, how much dev is the entire world, typically?

EDIT: Never mind, i googled it. The world starts with about 17587 total development.
 
Last edited:

ABK

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Well this is kind of funny - remove one anoying mechanic - corruption from terretories and replace it with even more anoying and hurtfull mechanic like this. If now us a duchy from the start of the game yuo can have 10 states and 10 territories with out any penalty wat so ever (that is easy enough to upgrade yuor gov rank to kindom), in future yuo will be able to have like what 6 somewhat decent state max and 0 territoty (and that is me being optimistic assuming on that Lis screnshot 200 = amount of dev yuo can have full stated). That is just not good, the base numbe of dev yuo can have without penalties should be much-much higher.
 

Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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That's not quite true. Any significant European victories in India - at least before the EIC had blobbed to a critical size - were achieved with the help of local allies.
That is only true to the significant large scale inland conquests such as the ones undertaken by the EIC in the 18th century.
But he is right when he claims that before that, the French, Dutch, Portuguese and English had already conquered cities and several small enclaves of land all over the Indian coast, and while right now this portrayed in game by "Trade Company Purchases" these conquests were definitely not peaceful purchases.
One example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_conquest_of_Goa
These sort of small-scale wars for a single province are not possible with current mechanics.
 

swagmeister

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That's not quite true. Any significant European victories in India - at least before the EIC had blobbed to a critical size - were achieved with the help of local allies.


And with Courthouses in every province this would become 5833.333 development, and if the upgraded version doubles the effect wou would be able to take 17.5k development.
I think then the issue in my opinion is that building costs in EU4 are astronomically expensive. By the time you can afford to build them in every province you own if you aren't playing tall you no longer need to build them in the first place. but I guess we can adapt if there is a workaround with courthouses.
 

Jesus was a communist

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I think then the issue in my opinion is that building costs in EU4 are astronomically expensive. By the time you can afford to build them in every province you own if you aren't playing tall you no longer need to build them in the first place. but I guess we can adapt if there is a workaround with courthouses.
Or we could just go back to playing a pre Dharma
patch....
 

Griffin01

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1. Wouldn't it make sense for the marines to have a penalty for fire damage rather than shock?
2. Were the administrative ideas reworked (or are going to be reworked) so that they are actually about administration?
3. Irrelevant to the topic at hand, but have you considered changing the Austrian ideas? They are not very good, honestly, for such a major nation historically.
 

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Personally I think Cav should fulfill a role, like Artillery does within the combat mechanics. I don't think just tweaking pips to be relatively good to their cost would be enough or good.
Given the historical role of cavalry in reconnaissance and mobility, it might be very neat to have cavalry give additional control/effects on the cadence and intensity of combat and on making engagement/disengagement easier. If high cavalry could help outnumbered armies fight at a lower cadence (less combat rounds per unit time) and/or lower intensity (smaller proportions of forces in the front lines, reserve artillery unable to fire) - and do the opposite for armies with numerical advantage - they would be important throughout the game. Other aspects would be the casualties taken in "pursuit" - whether after a battle or when disengaging by evasion (which would be nice to have on its own).
 

YeP1337

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Right now, there is a pretty hard cap on expansion with the hard state limit and territory corruption. Paradox is replacing this with the mentioned soft cap (where numbers aren't final). Groogy said that you should be able to reach a cap of 3500 (equivalent to 3500 development fully stated) by the end of the game without special bonuses or buildings. 3500 dev is not tall by any reasonable standard, it is actually very wide.
300 dev as a kingdom in the early stages of the game is not very wide, but it doesn't constrain you to an ultra-tall playstyle either - exceeding the cap a little should not kill you, and picking administrative as a first or second idea group has always been a go-to strategy for expansionist strategies anyway.


They did explain that one - because they do not want the Mameluks to have trade companies in Arabia. Personally, I am not sure if this is actually enough of a problem to justify the restriction - I would usually want to fully state the Arabian peninsula as Mamluks anyway and I don't see why e.g. Oman should not be able to have TCs in India and East Africa.
The AE and Improve Relations modifier alone hurt you for attempting achievements inside the game itself. That is my problem with the proposed mechanic. It really is just another attempt to punish players who want to blob. It's a sandbox, I shouldn't have to sit there and be like "Oh well, I want to do this achievement and I need this land, but in order for me to get this land I have to jump through x rings of fire first."
 

Kapi96

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Sounds like a lot of good changes to me.

Although the governing capacity numbers seem too low, especially early game. And while they definitely needed a nerf, increasing the minimum autonomy of trade companies to 80% seems too much of a nerf. Same with territories, they were borderline useless at 75% anyway, now at 90% they're just completely useless. Can only hope the -min autonomy in territories reform has been increased to -40% or something rather than the paltry -10%
 

Wolfrex

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Are changes planned for trade republics? Their trading cities have the title of kingdom, which is very strange when you yourself have the ducal title. They declare war and disappear. And are not considered subjects. And it is very inconvenient. And they have no estates, and the fractions are frankly weak. And at the same time the highest penalty for absolutism. (And veche republics are pain and tears)
 

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Every trade node in the old world is now fitted with a Trade Company. We haven’t changed the trade system in itself but what this means in essence a Qing colonizing Great Britain can move their Trade Capital to the English Channel node, set up trade companies and force feed the Europeans products they don’t need for maximum profit.
This is like putting a band-aid on a broken leg. Sure, it's a very nice band-aid, and technically speaking, it's still better than no band-aid, but it does nothing whatsoever to treat the broken leg of 'Trade only flows in one direction'.
 

Pretorius07

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The rework of Navals seems quite good! Its impressive,and now playing as a naval empire will be really fun!
But i feel bad regarding the territories and states. Im worry that it will be more and more badly than the current one for blobbing. And the current is hard as well sometimes. But i like blobbing. I dont like play tall. And every patch brings more and more pain in the ... Ehh,maybe it wiil be good. By the way GG for the hard work,keep going.

And what i really really wait is the rework of the vassal AI mechanic:) or simply add more possibility to add command to theese shits :D
 
Last edited:

Zhouji

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California to Sydney.. yeah thats bad for manpower. But who in the world transport 40k there.. you'll do it once or twice in the world conquest.
Just wait for Portuguese nationalists rebel pop up on a Pacific island. And if you ignore them you lose all their cores eventually.:p
 

Fitzgerald93

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Can you make the teutonic order better (gouverment or moral idea) and that you not allowed form prussia if teutonic order exsist?
The Teutonic order and Prussia per se are actually independent political entities. Eventhough the duchy of prussia was formed out of the teutonic order the title of the duke of prussia is tied to the region of prussia not the state of the teutonic knights.

And it would only cause you to have to hunt for remaining provinces or someone releasing 1 core to block people from forming prussia in mps.
 

Najenda

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this patch will be disgusting when topic comes to balance , if trade companies depends to super regions , it would be ok , but land connection is just a bad idea
 

Twoflower

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The AE and Improve Relations modifier alone hurt you for attempting achievements inside the game itself. That is my problem with the proposed mechanic. It really is just another attempt to punish players who want to blob. It's a sandbox, I shouldn't have to sit there and be like "Oh well, I want to do this achievement and I need this land, but in order for me to get this land I have to jump through x rings of fire first."
That was not what you said in your first post. Your statement (which I replied to) was that Paradox are "effectively making the whole game play tall". The new limit will absolutely allow a non-tall playstyle without any problems. 3500 dev, which is achievable without any penalties according to what Groogy said, is not tall. And that is if you fully state everything and do not build courthouses.
They are also allowing countries in Asia and Africa to have trade companies, which will let them hold even more land without penalties and remove the absurd strategy of moving your capital to Europe in order to get TCs.

World conquest and the WC achievements are a different matter. You probably won't be able to avoid penalties from going over the limit when doing a world conquest, however:

1. I am truly not sure whether these penalties are harsher than the hard state cap and hard corruption penalty from holding too many territories in place right now
2. you absolutely do not have to full-state the whole world in order to do a world conquest. The starting development for the whole world is 17.587. Let's assume this will be increased to about 18.000 with all the new provinces in 1.30. Let us also, for simplicity's sake, assume that your cap is 3.500 by the end of the game, that you do not build any courthouses and that global dev is increased to 20.000 by the end of the game.
If you have 1.000 dev fully stated and the remaining 19.000 dev as territories, you will be at a total weighted development of 5750.
I.e.: after completing a world conquest, you exceed your limit by 64 % and thus gain 0,64 of the penalties. This is just some wobbly math made up on the fly, but a penalty of about two thirds of those values after doing the most extreme amount of conquest possible in the game does not seem excessive.
And I suppose this discounts the fact that afaik you can do all WC achievements while having all of America and Oceania held by colonial nations, which do not count towards the limit.

It is ok to dislike penalties towards expansion, but a little less hysteria (this is not directed towards you, YeP1337, specifically) wouldn't go amiss here.