EU5 suggestion -Dynamic terrain

[MatejaB]

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to make a suggestion for Eu5. Let me know and ill move it to Eu4 suggestions. I have been wondering what feature I think would be the most interesting feature for eu5 and I think I have figured it out.

Dynamic terrain- this would allow for example certain scenarios such as blocking the straight of Gibraltar, or modification of forest into farmland, creation of straights, mimic the breaking of the bridge in Srilanka. It would also be great for mods where you have evil forces spreading corruption or magical forests you can spread and grow. I am sure we can think of a billion ways this can add to the depth of the game. I was inspired when i was playing Anbennar and they have tiles for large cities and I always wanted a certain development province to become a city terrain tile.

 

[promant]

That's... hilarious. Terrain doesn't not change like that even in our times. I mean, stuff like cutting down a forest literally takes HUNDREDS of years if not made for a massive scale, which, obviously, was very rarely a case in pre-modern world.

 

[R.Graymarch]

If I recall correctly, in earlier versions of EU4, each province had a terrain probability (for example forest 27%, hills 13%, plains 60%). I agree that it made sense in terms of realism but as a player I did not like this feature because you could not predict where the attack would be (and attacking in a plain or in hills is not the same at all)

I would be quite wary on a massive terrain change as proposed by OP (maybe something extreme like flooding our own land like the Dutch did with Napoléon ? But that's the equivalent of "scorched earth" )

 

[master_kong]

If I recall correctly, in earlier versions of EU4, each province had a terrain probability (for example forest 27%, hills 13%, plains 60%). I agree that it made sense in terms of realism but as a player I did not like this feature because you could not predict where the attack would be (and attacking in a plain or in hills is not the same at all)

I would be quite wary on a massive terrain change as proposed by OP (maybe something extreme like flooding our own land like the Dutch did with Napoléon ? But that's the equivalent of "scorched earth" )

But it was dependent on the general's manuever skill to be able to battle on the favorable ground which is nice. Also current one static terrain for provinces is far from perfect. Maybe it'll get better with the additions of more provinces/cities in the upcoming game.

 

[KleinerMoses]

[...] I mean, stuff like cutting down a forest literally takes HUNDREDS of years [...]

*coughs in brazilian portuguese*

Seriously, humans have a MASSIVE impact on forests. Since humans are sedentary the amount of forest in the world has almost been halved. And yes, this took hundreds, even thousands of years. But if you look at the new world, you will find quickly places like Haiti which got rid of almost every single tree they once got quite quick.
Another great example is Iceland. Iceland must have been one of the worst places to live at when they realized that they took all available wood.
So that basically means that IF you would ever be able to change the terrain from maybe forest to farmland, it should also increase the building costs massively.

You could even give goods a real value than. Imagine pops would be included. The higher the population is, the higher is the amount of wood which is needed. Cutting down the forest makes maybe room for more poeple, but lowers the amount of produced wood, but increases the amount of produced grain. Okay sorry, I am dreaming to much.

 

[Deliberus]

only real terrain changes that were brought about in this time period were the dutch coasts...

 

[KleinerMoses]

only real terrain changes that were brought about in this time period were the dutch coasts...

What are "real terrain changes"?
If only land reclamation fits into your definition, then yes. But everywhere in the world where you had a growing population and a forest, the forests were at least decimated.

 

[Deliberus]

What are "real terrain changes"?
If only land reclamation fits into your definition, then yes. But everywhere in the world where you had a growing population and a forest, the forests were at least decimated.

Other than that I don't really know any other major geographical terrain changes that occurred. Maybe some marsh terrain changes but that's just me spitballing...

 

[MatejaB]

That's... hilarious. Terrain doesn't change like that even in our times. I mean, stuff like cutting down a forest literally takes HUNDREDS of years if not made for a massive scale, which, obviously, was very rarely a case in the pre-modern world.

Luckily the span of the game is hundreds of years. It also depends on the size of the province. But okay you don't like it, fair enough, at least give us the moddibility to do so it would help for a lot of different mods where these things may be more plausible such as a modern times mod., or an ultra-powerful mage or something.

Note I am more concerned with the modability of the map. As mentioned the world has changed substantially. Fewer forests, man-made lakes, generators, swamp reclamation. now we have megacities. Okay, maybe you are right between historically 1444-1820. Personally I think a ruler (which we are playing as) would with enough effort be able to pull it off. Now is it historical, no...but if I was conquering the whole world which I might add is not historical, maybe I would have the manpower to do it? In my opinion, the game is about changing history as well as giving it respect. No more implausible than an African nation having forced tech centres, before most European nations.

Mods give Eu4 its long life and therefore I think it's crucial. History can already be modded in, and therefore is not a new feature that is required to give the game more depth and breadth. Most people enjoy total conversions after they play the base game and this would be very helpful for them.

Ultimately a more dynamic map (including dynamic terrain texture changes) would also be a benefit when it comes to history because we could have dynamic borders which change historically after certain events. All through this, of course, would be much harder to implement than dynamic terrain (modifiers, pictures, texture) changes.

 

[Xdevo]

It would make sense (even in EU4) for the terrain of a province to go from Forest -> Woods -> Grasslands for high dev provinces / at a cost to the nation. Jungles -> Woods -> Grasslands would also make some sense at a steeper cost. There were many areas of the world that were changed from Forests to Farmland (most of Germany, chunks of Southeast Asia, a lot of the US by the absolute end of the game) or developed major cities that make little sense having development penalties (most of the Bengal Delta, many other Southeast Asian areas). There were quite a few potential metropolises throughout Southern and Southeastern Asia that, had their owners risen to prominence in the same way the Taungu did (Chittagong and Malacca come to mind).

 

[Maxxie42]

Totally agree with the decline of forests bit. It's always a bit strange when half of Germany is forests in the 18th century...

Another important terrain transformation that deserves to be represented is the reclamation of swamp lands. Right now I don't believe the Pontine marshes are represented at all in game, despite their importance (they're the reason we use an Italian word for malaria) and the many endeavors to drain them throughout history. Several provinces in the Low Countries also start as marshes in 1444 but should be farmlands by 1821. I'm sure there are more examples outside of Europe that I'm not aware of. It's an important dynamic because it transforms hostile, often uninhabitable lands into very fertile farmlands (due to the accumulated sediments), causing large economic and demographic changes.

So yeah, I think being able to have an impact on terrain would definitely add depth to the game.

 

[Waffle Knight]

Considering the direction of having smaller subsections of provinces in hoi4, imperator and now ck3, when eu5 gets released i expect that some form of this will be included.
Eu4 is old and in my opinion it's not a feature worth integrating, especially since it quite likely will lead to farmland appearing everywhere unless you include arbitrary limitations to it.
I still remember campaigns after common sense was released where 80% of the hre was filled with 30-40 dev provinces.