EU4's recent Steam reviews are now at Mixed with 48% rating. Discuss?

[Camtheman]

One day, Paradox will become the new EA sims. Luckily I don't have a lot of games I play consistently.

What do you mean one day? Have you seen the most recent country specific DLC? DLC for individual countries now. They clearly think we are stupid.

Instead of buying the most recent full DLC I bought an actual triple A title on sale at $30 (Battlefield 1) and haven't looked back, an actual well made game that is completely playable without any DLC. The only reason I come onto the forums anymore is

A: to complain about DLC and fruitlessly hope to change the dichotomy
B: to get mod ideas

 

[Chengar Qordath]

I'm eagerly awaiting the horse armor model pack...

 

[Count Hasimir Fenring]

I'm eagerly awaiting the horse armor model pack...

It's funny the horse armor DLC for Oblivion is still a common meme. Back then when DLC was first taking off it was quite a controversy but honestly these days you can get even less for even more money. Shit, at least you didn't have satellite DLC for that like "Songs of the Armored Horse" or "Horse Armor Content Pack" which includes new colored horses for you to put your horse armor on.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

It's funny the horse armor DLC for Oblivion is still a common meme. Back then when DLC was first taking off it was quite a controversy but honestly these days you can get even less for even more money.

Let's just hope Paradox doesn't take notice of Bethesda's plans to start charging people for mods...

 

[Count Hasimir Fenring]

Let's just hope Paradox doesn't take notice of Bethesda's plans to start charging people for mods...

I think Bethesda is the perfect example of a company that started out with a fairly niche product, interacted with their community and seemed to respect their core fanbase only to start spitting on them, gouging them for money and tearing out everything that made the games unique to begin with. Skyrim was an absolute abomination and Todd Howard is a smarmy, condescending creep who thinks we're all morons. Bethesda has always relied on modders to fix their games because they're horrible, lazy programmers. Why not also make money off of it?

Anyway, I'd hate to see Paradox go down the same road I watched Bethesda take.

 

[Kuantum]

2017:

EU 4: 38€ for Mandate of Heaven (w/ Content Pack) and Third Rome.
Stellaris: 20€ for Utopia
HOI 4: 25€ for Together for Victory & Death or Dishonor.

83€ in six months? For DLCs?

I mean... Come on...

 

[TheAtreides84]

It's funny the horse armor DLC for Oblivion is still a common meme. Back then when DLC was first taking off it was quite a controversy but honestly these days you can get even less for even more money. Shit, at least you didn't have satellite DLC for that like "Songs of the Armored Horse" or "Horse Armor Content Pack" which includes new colored horses for you to put your horse armor on.

Horse Armor was a cosmetic DLC including two sets of armor sold for 2.50$. There was nothing unfair or particularly strange about it, it was completely optional and just a little extra to have. The storm it raised is one of the most stupid things in the recent history of gaming.

 

[TheAtreides84]

2017:

EU 4: 38€ for Mandate of Heaven (w/ Content Pack) and Third Rome.
Stellaris: 20€ for Utopia
HOI 4: 25€ for Together for Victory & Death or Dishonor.

83€ in six months? For DLCs?

I mean... Come on...

I really, really want people to explain me what's the problem. Every single month tons of books, movies, tv series, music records and tabletop games get released. Nobody can buy them all nor he feel any need to. Still, the simple fact they exist means one can chose to own some of them in the future, if he so wishes. Why on earth do people want to have their options limited? What the hell would you gain if DLCs weren't released at all? You wouldn't be able to wait for discounts, get them gifted to you or in a bundle. You wouldn't be able to buy them ever! It would be a net loss for everyone, and to this day I can't wrap my head around the fact people don't seem to understand something so simple.

 

[TheAtreides84]

"Do not buy this game, because the DLC is excessive to the point of ridiculousness and the publisher is arbitrarily raising prices to further nickel and dime you."

So, is it just a boycott on moral grounds? That's not what reviews are for. I've been a game and book reviewer here in Italy and let me tell you that if I had tried to stuff arguments about my own moral standards in what should have been unbiased reviews focused on quality, trying to discourage people from buying a good product because of a bad personal opinion of the author's or developer's conduct, I would have been sued first, fired second. And with good reason.

 

[lymond]

So, is it just a boycott on moral grounds? That's not what reviews are for. I've been a game and book reviewer here in Italy and let me tell you that if I had tried to stuff arguments about my own moral standards in what should have been unbiased reviews focused on quality I would have been sued first, and fired second. And with good reason.

Unfortunately, it's the only way to really give feedback where it counts. And the feedback is needed. I haven't bought anything since MN.

This is obviously a divisive issue. But I don't care how any tries to justify it. The PD DLC has gotten out of hand and it has been that way for a while.

The bottom line is PD has a core base of fans that will throw money at everything they release. However, they are also turning off a lot of existing and potential customers.

 

[TheAtreides84]

Unfortunately, it's the only way to really give feedback where it counts. And the feedback is needed. I haven't bought anything since MN.

And that's your feedback right here. If DLCs do not sell they'll stop making them. If you have to lie and obfuscate the quality of the game to get your point across, you aren't providing feedback, you're scamming fellow players out of a good gaming experience for your own selfish reason.

This is obviously a divisive issue. But I don't care how any tries to justify it. The PD DLC has gotten out of hand and it has been that way for a while.

I'll reiterate: why do you care at all? Does the existence of DLCs hurt you in any way? If they just all disappeared from the stores tomorrow, would your game be improved?

DLC is published: player 1 choose to purchase it, player 2 choose not to purchase it. Everyone is happy.
DLC is not published: player 2 would not have purchased it anyway, so nothing changed for him. But player 1 can't purchase it, even if he wants to! So he is clearly in worse shape.

So, please tell me. Why are you trying to screw poor player 1 for no logical reason at all?

 

[Kuantum]

I really, really want people to explain me what's the problem. Every single month tons of books, movies, tv series, music records and tabletop games get released. Nobody can buy them all nor he feel any need to. Still, the simple fact they exist means one can chose to own some of them in the future, if he so wishes. Why on earth do people want to have their options limited? What the hell would you gain if DLCs weren't released at all? You wouldn't be able to wait for discounts, get them gifted to you or in a bundle. You wouldn't be able to buy them ever! It would be a net loss for everyone, and to this day I can't wrap my head around the fact people don't seem to understand something so simple.

I was going to buy both the latest EU 4 DLC today, but was put off by the reviews on Steam.

I'm just questioning the relation between the DLC price and the DLC quality, as many are.

In my opinion it's a bad policy for Paradox, and i want Paradox to be a successful company, i absolutely love EU 4 and i really hope for a good EU 5, if it ever comes out.

 

[TheAtreides84]

I was going to buy both the latest EU 4 DLC today, but was put off by the reviews on Steam.

I'm just questioning the relation between the DLC price and the DLC quality, as many are.

In my opinion it's a bad policy for Paradox, and i want Paradox to be a successful company, i absolutely love EU 4 and i really hope for a good EU 5, if it ever comes out.

You're doing this for the company, then? Like some sort of unpaid business consultant?

 

[Badesumofu]

Right now you could buy EU and all expansions up to and including RoM for about $80. That is a great deal.

If you are buying each expansion as it comes out and paying full price over the last few years than you likely have thousands of hours into the game and are also getting a good deal.

I also think it's worth looking over recent Paradox DLCs to note something important - they don't contain any essential mechanics. Utopia adds a bunch of stuff that is nice to have but not at all required to enjoy the game. The majority of the content was actually in the free patch. MoH adds some age bonuses and some regional content. Nothing that you'll seriously miss unless you play a ton. RoM's content is great but also not essential. The HOI packs are mostly only relevant if you play the relevant nations and Third Rome is entirely skippable unless you want to play in Russia.

The point is - you can pay the money if you want the extra stuff, that stuff is nice to have and probably worth the money to someone who spends a lot of time playing the game. Or you can not pay the money and enjoy the improvements to games you bought 1 - 3 years ago for free.

 

[Pile_O_Gunz]

I was going to buy both the latest EU 4 DLC today, but was put off by the reviews on Steam.

I'm just questioning the relation between the DLC price and the DLC quality, as many are.

In my opinion it's a bad policy for Paradox, and i want Paradox to be a successful company, i absolutely love EU 4 and i really hope for a good EU 5, if it ever comes out.

I'd watch a few videos on the features and decide for yourself.

You can't trust steam reviews right now. Eu4 is getting review-bombed as a protest against the price increases - we all know the game does not deserve the "mostly negative" rating that greets newcomers at the moment.

 

[lymond]

So, please tell me. Why are you trying to screw poor player 1 for no logical reason at all?

Ha..well, you seem to be implying that I've given EU4 a bad review on steam. My review on Steam is a very positive one from several years ago.

I'm just saying that folks have a right to give negative feedback in regards to the DLC policy as there is really no other way to let PD know this. I mean I and others have mentioned this ad nauseum on these forums for some time now, but it just gets worse.

The issue is not DLC itself, but the model itself, and the fact that there is not really a great entry point either for newer players. The game has been out for several years now, and it not getting any easier for folks. It just does not work that way for any other games...MMOs excluded.

 

[lymond]

The point is - you can pay the money if you want the extra stuff, that stuff is nice to have and probably worth the money to someone who spends a lot of time playing the game. Or you can not pay the money and enjoy the improvements to games you bought 1 - 3 years ago for free.

Lol...when will this stop be an argument posted ad nauseum. It is not an argument and most players do not think of it like this, especially new players. It's simple to say that if you already own everything. I've never owned a game where I did not want the full experience.

Also, I've own EU IV since day 1. I've tried certain patches with and without the DLC (waiting for it to come on sale). It is not the same thing and there are a lot of issues when you plan on a certain patch and mechanics are there/not there. (and note: beta patches are buggy as hell..I play now on 1.17.1 and there are many issues present ..some that did not exist and the full life of Mare Nostrum)

 

[Kyoumen]

Unfortunately, it's the only way to really give feedback where it counts. And the feedback is needed. I haven't bought anything since MN.

This is obviously a divisive issue. But I don't care how any tries to justify it. The PD DLC has gotten out of hand and it has been that way for a while.

You do understand that no matter how YOU try to justify it, people who like the DLC system aren't going to agree its bad just because you say it is? And that their tastes and preferences are not less valid than yours?

The bottom line is PD has a core base of fans that will throw money at everything they release. However, they are also turning off a lot of existing and potential customers.

Is anybody even capable of discussing this subject without making up strawmen to throw stones at? "Some people just hate paying money and whine about everything". "Some people will just throw money at Paradox no matter what they do."

You don't want people to have real reasons to pay for Paradox's DLCs, so you make up an imaginary group of people with no standards beyond "I luv Paradox" that do so. As long as you do this (and others do the same), they will never understand why people disagree with them.

And here's the thing about "turning off a lot of existing and potential customers". Paradox is demonstrably, indisputably more successful with this business model than they ever were before. And each new DLC is selling well enough to justify continuing the practice. What you like is subjective, what is financially successful is a lot more objective. There is no real evidence beyond "people on the internet say" to support that this is turning off anyone, and if it turns out your hypothesis does have something to it, Paradox is going to notice it via their sale data long before any random person on the internet does.

Paradox has actually changed their practices due to pressure from the forums and such (it's why the content packs are bundles, sometimes with the DLC as well). But I can't imagine they're going to stop doing something that is demonstrably successful because a tiny portion of their fanbase (and everyone here and doing Steam reviews is a tiny portion of their fanbase) gets angry and accusatory and threatens that sometime in the future this practice will lose money even though it shows no signs of doing so right now.

 

[TheAtreides84]

I'm just saying that folks have a right to give negative feedback in regards to the DLC policy as there is really no other way to let PD know this. I mean I and others have mentioned this ad nauseum on these forums for some time now, but it just gets worse.

No, they don't. A review is about quality of a single product, not about a company's morality. It's like someone reviewing an Iphone and saying "well, I won't talk about the phone, but you shouldn't really buy it because Apple is exploiting workers down in China." It may be true, it may even be compelling, but it's not the point of a frigging review. If you're doing a review sure as hell you need to talk about quality, or you're consciously trying to misguide your readers by forcing your own morality upon them.

 

[Kuantum]

You're doing this for the company, then? Like some sort of unpaid business consultant?

And are you a paid business consultant?