EU4 Starter FAQ - The Ottomans (Request)

[Nbyrd291]

So, starting EU4 for the first time. I have become pretty competent at HOI4, so I'm generally familiar with how a Paradox game works. I've watched a lot of videos and feel confident to finally start a game as the Ottomans. However, one of the problems I'm having is getting familiar with all the various elements. Things such as avoiding unnecessary aggressive expansion, how often you should be fabricating claims, why my light ships don't seem to be doing anything when I set them to "collect trade", send me to scour the web for answers and end up slowing down my game to a crawl.

What I want this thread to achieve is simple. I do not want to learn about overarching gameplay strategies for the Ottomans like how to do a world conquest or becoming the HRE. I do, however, want beginner friendly answers and advice to more specific questions that will commonly occur to a new player. I find that I generally know what I want to do, but am not sure what certain information means or the possible downsides of a decision.

I've read and watched a lot on this game, therefore my questions may be different from other beginners. What I'm hoping for is this thread to be a resource to anyone who wants to learn the game using the Ottomans. Hopefully, after a while, questions and answers will pile up.

Anyway, I will start off with a few example questions for The Ottomans

1. Claims: I get a free claim on Constantinople with "The City of the World's Desire" mission. Should I forge a claim on any of their other provinces? Their vassals? Should I be generating claims on every (non-core)province I want to take in a war before I declare it? Or is there a balance to it?

2. Light Ships: I have light ships and I know they are used for trade related actions like the "protect trade" mission. I have five of them. How do I know how many I need? After I tell them to protect trade, they seem to do nothing but sit near a port. Is this how they are supposed to behave, or is there something I'm missing?

3. Aggressive Expansion: If I win a war, I take aggressive expansion for taking provinces. More if I do not claim them. High aggressive expansion leads to other powers forming a coalition against you. Therefore, how should I manage aggressive expansion? Where can I find the numbers? Is there a "red line" number I should look out for?

 

[Number 7]

1 - it lowers the ADM cost of coring the province when you take it, that's the only benefit. It can be a significant benefit when applied to many provinces so if i'm preparing a war for a while i will usually fabricate many claims, but otherwise just fabricate one for the CB

2 - they usually just sail around in the water near the node and provide you money. As for how many you need, early game just do as many as possible on constantinople. Later on you will have a lot of trade ducats overseas coming from india and asia that you can direct your light ships to protect to get it to go towards your main trade node in constantinople.

3 - During the peace deal you can hover over the AE number it says you're going to take, its on the left. when you hover it will say which you will incur between <number> and <number> with so many states, and the following ones may form coalitions against you. If they're just like OPMs and theres only 1 or 2, you can ignore it and let them get very high AE. If its major powers or a horde of OPMs thats when you worry.

Here are some AE tips

Nations with positive relations with you will never join coalitions, so using your diplomats to get people to like you helps you war monger.

Allies take severely reduced amounts of AE (not as helpful for ottos, but keep in mind for future. Ally with france and then go on the war path while france turns a blind eye is a good strat)

Nations care about their culture type and religion more than others. As ottomans you are at the perfect place with orthodox eastern europeans to the north, catholic germans and italians to the west, egypt/africa to the south and the hordes and eventually india to the east. Basically, you can just eat people in different directions. you'll find europe will not care at all as you take massive chunks out of the mamluks.

the "better relations over time" modifier will reduce your AE over time faster. hes one of my favourite advisors and it also comes up in some idea groups.

 

[Chaingun]

It took me a fairly long time to figure out WTH light ships do on protect trade. The key thing to realize is that your trade power share in a node determines how much of its income you get (simplified, completely disregarding collection/steering). Your trade ships contribute trade power to the node they've been assigned to. So you basically try to "match" the trade power of your opponents already there - an infinite number of light ships isn't useful because your trade power share can only reach 100%. A ballpark target is half of the total trade power in the node (whether to actually get more or less depends on income you can potentially get from it per additional ship, which will be diminishing as you keep adding light ships due to previous considerations).

n = your TP
m = opponent TP
your share = n / (n + m)
your share -> 1 as n -> inf

(Just focused on a single thing in this reply, but I think it's better to leave broad things for others that know better, most likely someone can just link explanations for all of this anyway.)

 

[AJ123]

1. Claims have three benefits. First, they reduce the amount of admin points you need to spend to make them a core. Second, lands you have claims on will take less time to core. Third, you generate less AE when you take lands you have claims on as opposed to taking lands you don't have claims on. Ideally, you would have a claim on every province you want to take. Realistically, it's not possible, except for a few missions some nations get. Best practice is to lay claim on the higher development land, as it will usually generate more AE than lower dev land.

2. Light ships can be used to protect trade or privateer. If you select either mission, the tooltip will tell you how much income will be generated or lost based on which node you want them to operate in. That's how you determine how many you need.

3. The "red line" for AE is 50. Anyone that has 50 or more AE against you is eligible to form or join a coalition against you. You can avoid this by improving relations with other countries, sending gifts, guarenteering, etc.

Understanding how AE works is a huge part of the game. Firstly, no nation will join a coalition if it has a truce with you. So, you can go over 50 if you know the AE will burn off or you can improve relations enough before the truce is up.

Second, AE is determined by the culture in provinces you take, religion in the provinces you take, distance from a countries borders and by whether a nation has cores or claims on the land you take. For example, if you as Otto take Serbia, Bosnia and Albania at the same time, Wallachia is going to have enough AE to form a coalition. This is because you took land in their culture group and most of it was Orthodox like them. By contrast, Wallachia isn't really going to care if you annex all of the Arabian Peninsula at one time.

Anyway, the point is to not take too much from one area at one time. Pin the coalition map mode and look at it when you are trying to decide on if to start a war. If several European Catholic nations have high AE, it's probably better to go in another direction for a while.

 

[Threshold]

1. Starting in 1.16, claims require more work, and have less reward. A claim does remove the dip cost of taking land, and gives you a marginal coring cost discount (10%, but only applies to the territorial core portion, so it's really 5% of the total if you make it a state core afterwards-states and territories replaced the old overseas system in 1.16). It's usually worth it to claim one or sometimes two high development provinces on a nation, particularly if you need that CB to go to war in the first place, but more claims aren't as helpful, and each one on the same target takes longer than the last.

In your case, since you get a claim from the mission, you probably don't need to bother fabricating any on the Byzantines.

-

2. I'm not 100% positive, but I believe you can only protect trade in a node where you have a merchant. Light ships protecting trade increases your trade power in that node (by 2.0 for barques, which you start with). For instance, let's pretend all countries in a node have 300 trade power, and your trade power in that node is 50. This is 1/6 of the total trade power in that node, which gives you that much of the total trade value of that node as trade income.* If you then send 5 light ships over, at 2 trade power each, you are now at 60 out of 310, or just under 1/5 (19.35%) of the total trade power in that node, etc.*

*Note: Actual total trade power is more complicated than that, as only the trade power of nations that collect or steer is counted (and it has to be a minimum trade power as well), but I'll let someone more familiar with the intricacies of trade cover that, as this explanation is sufficient for our purposes.

In answer to the question of what your light ships do while they're protecting trade, they essentially just patrol all of the sea zones (inside your coring/colonial range, I think) that have provinces in them that belong to the node you assigned them to. So they shouldn't just stay in/near one port, but circle around the same several ones. Also, as an aside, make sure that your naval maintenance is at full, as trade power from light ships is reduced directly proportional to naval maintenance (0 trade power if you're not paying to maintain them).

-

3. I'll answer your last question in this section first, because this is a long subject: Keep it below 50. That's when coalitions start to form. Secondly, you can keep countries out of a coalition even if you have more than 50 AE opinion on them, provided that their opinion of you is positive. Use your diplomats to improve relations before the war in question, or during if possible, on any countries that you expect to be ticked off by the land you take. And, as already mentioned, stack as much Better Relations Over Time as you can, since that'll cause your AE to decay faster (base is 2 per year).

Conquest wars for claims did reduce AE prior to 1.16, but they do so no longer, so if you're noticing higher AE for taking provinces that aren't claims, then something else is going on.

In the peace screen, if you hover over where it says you will incur for instance 17.3 AE (which only factors in CB, development, taking land or vassalizing, AE reductions, and administrative efficiency reductions-see below formula), it will show you the actual value (taking into account all factors) that you will incur against every country that would be willing to join a coalition against you after that peace treaty. It's not as useful as seeing how much you'll incur against every nation, period, but it's better than nothing. You also have the coalition map mode, to see at a glance the current value of your AE on each individual country.

You can find the numbers in the defines.lua file in the /Europa Universalis IV/common/ folder (itself in /steamapps/common/) (or on the wiki), but this is basically what it breaks down as (attempted to format for readability, my apologies):

AE incurred against a country = 1 or 0.75 or 0.5 or 0.25 for CB, where appropriate), times development, times (0.75 for taking the province, 0.5 for vassalization) times (base of 1, plus 0.5 if the offended country has the same national religion as the religion of the province you take, plus 0.25 if the same applies and the offended country considers you to be an infidel/heathen, plus 0.5 if the province you take is in the HRE [did not test if everyone, including those not in the HRE, are still offended by this], plus 0.25 if the offended country is in the same cultural group as the province you take, plus another 0.25 if the offended country is the exact same culture as the province you take, minus 0.5 if the offended country is a different religion group than the province you take, plus 0.01 per 20 development that you have (up to a cap of plus 0.50 at 1000 development), minus 0.01 per 20 development that the country you take the province from has (up to a cap of minus 0.50 at 1000 development).

Times any AE reductions you have (i.e. 10% reduction = 0.9x modifier), times any distance modifiers (where each distance hop is a self-multiplicative 0.75x modifier), times any reductions you have from administrative efficiency (i.e. 20% reduction = 0.8x modifier).

After all this, the total AE is modified, divided by 1.5 if they're an ally (so 66.67%, I think it used to be 50%, but that's still pretty good), and I forget if vassals were updated to not take AE from your conquests, or if they only take half.

As an example, taking Constantinople is 1 (CB) * 23 (development) * 0.75 (taking land) [so with no AE reductions it'll show pretty close to 17.3 in the peace screen before you hover on it] * (1 + 0.5 + 0.25 = 1.75 on Orthodox countries not in the same culture group or 1 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.25 = 2.0 on Orthodox countries in the same culture group but not the same culture or 1 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25 = 2.25 on Orthodox countries of the same exact culture or 1 + 0 = 1 on Catholic countries or 1 - 0.5 = 0.5 on Muslim, Hindu, etc countries) * (1 or 0.75 or 0.5625 or 0.428175 or 0.31640625 or 0.2373046875 for distance).

Note: +0.01 per 20 development of yours and -0.01 per 20 development of target were ignored for the above calculations.

 

[Nbyrd291]

Those were some very helpful answers. A few more questions

4. Missions: There are a number of missions and decisions I can take. The problem is, the game seems to give limited information with what happens if I take those missions. Now, I know from history what happens with Constantinople but if I didn't, the subsequent mission that makes Constantinople your capitol would be a (happy) surprise. However, this means National Decisions and missions may lead to the other missions or events that a first time player has no knowledge of and cannot plan for. Should I be researching every mission and National Decision to make sure it doesn't spark something later down the road that I don't want? Also, a more specific question, is gaining the manpower modifier from Adopting the Devshirme system worth the 100 military power? It seems like losing 100 military power at the very beginning is worth 10% more manpower until the end of the game.

5. Technology: So, there seem to be all sorts of factors affecting technological progress. It comes down to accumulating diplo/admin/mil points that slowly push you from one tech level to the next. However, as the Ottomans I am not in the Western tech group, and there seem to be all sorts of strange rules that modify my tech progress (instituitons/borders/piety). What should I be looking out for and responding to as the Ottomans so that I don't screw up and fall too much behind in tech?

 

[kente]

about the mission, you can check them on the wiki http://www.eu4wiki.com/Ottoman_missions (mostly are about conquer land or vassalize)
about the decisions, make Constantinople capital is kind of unique, anyway you can check them in the wiki http://www.eu4wiki.com/Ottomans#Decisions

 

[Orkonkel]

For some nations, AE is one of the main limiting factors to expanding (particularly in central Europe). There are a few things that affect how little you gain and how fast it decays; influence and humanism ideas, prestige, and better relations over time advisor are the ones you would want to maintain if your ambition is to conquer as many provinces as possible in as short a time span as possible. Vassalizing a nation accrues less aggressive expansion than outright conquering all the provinces. Likewise, taking back cores already present in a country generates far less aggressive expansion; prime examples of this is reconquering Novgorod cores to a Novgorod vassal from Muscowy, Guyenne cores from France, Persia cores from the Timurids, or Syria cores from the Marmadukes.

As was already mentioned, you generate more aggressive expansion from nations of the same culture and religion as the provinces you take, and even more if you take HRE provinces. What does this mean? It means that pushing into Russia, Iberia, Scandinavia, and the British Isles gives you more bang for the bucks than trying to stay under coalition-level of aggressive expansion in northern Italy or anywhere in Germany. Likewise, the Commonwealth is isolated enough to carve out large swathes of territory without having to bother about coalitions if you improve relations with neighbouring states (Bohemia, Pommerania, Brandenburg, etc).

The only useful tip I have about missions is that if you cancel a mission, you can't get the same one the next time you get to pick missions. Why is this useful? Well, if you conquer all the way down so you get a border with Hejaz in your first war to conquer Levant, feed all Syrian land to your Syrian vassal, and start coring Jerusalem and those other two provinces you get (I forget their names but the mountain fort down there), then when you cancel the 'Conquer Levant' mission, you can get the 'Conquer Egypt' mission which gives you claim on all of Hejaz. Assuming you made the Marmadukes cancel their guarantee of Hejaz in the peace deal, you can start a war with Hejaz immediately and get the 'Custodian of the Holy Cities' triggered modifier which gives you passive prestige as well as a third missionary, without even having picked the religious idea. This is good stuff right there, and it gets better if you get an early foothold in Naples. Conquering Rome gives you yet another missionary, meaning even in wars where you conquer 10-15+ provinces, you'll have them all converted to your faith within a few years of coring.

As a new player, what you would want to do is have a look at the Institutions and what causes them to spawn and spread. By building the right sort of buildings or directing the flow of trade in the right directions, you should be able to get some institutions to spawn within your borders. Not only does this mean you have a headstart when it comes to embracing said institution, but you will also gain 20 prestige and 100 each of administrative, diplomatic, and military points. Not too shabby.

 

[Nbyrd291]

6. Is there a way to see all the provinces a certain country owns, along with any vassals?

 

[Orkonkel]

Yes. There's a mapmode that shows this (relations or diplomatic or something).

 

[Nbyrd291]

I see. if you want to find everything a certain country owns (and its unowned cores), select the diplomatic map mode and click on the country you are interested in. Green for their provinces. Green stripes for unowned cores. It also shows their allies in blue.

 

[Nbyrd291]

7. Should I separate my transports from my other ships unless I want them to be escorted?

 

[Nbyrd291]

8. Both Serbia and Byzantium offered separate peace offers. If I take Serbia's peace offer which only has them giving me money and war rep, I cannot take any of their provinces. It says they are only negotiating for themselves. I assume this means I can still take whatever I want from Byzantium in a separate peace deal. A couple things: Does the act of rejecting peace offers affect anything other than extending the war? Is it a good idea to try and vassalize Serbia? It says I need 100% war score, I'm at 99%. My original plan was to annex all of Byzantium and take the coast province away from Serbia, plus a few duckets to fill out the war score. Now, I'm unsure if I should get my warscore up to 100 by sieging the last Byzantine province in Athens or just peace out.

 

[Ameron]

8. Both Serbia and Byzantium offered separate peace offers. If I take Serbia's peace offer which only has them giving me money and war rep, I cannot take any of their provinces. It says they are only negotiating for themselves. I assume this means I can still take whatever I want from Byzantium in a separate peace deal. A couple things: Does the act of rejecting peace offers affect anything other than extending the war? Is it a good idea to try and vassalize Serbia? It says I need 100% war score, I'm at 99%. My original plan was to annex all of Byzantium and take the coast province away from Serbia, plus a few duckets to fill out the war score. Now, I'm unsure if I should get my warscore up to 100 by sieging the last Byzantine province in Athens or just peace out.

What about full annexation for both of them? How much AE will it cause?
It's certainly desirable to full annex Byzantium and Athens, and Serbia's Kosovo province has a gold mine.
Remember you don' t need to manually core Constantinople, the related decision automatically gives you the core.

 

[Nbyrd291]

Ok. Vassalizing Serbia is impossible because it requires 134% war score. I'll just go with my original plan for now.

 

[Nbyrd291]

I can take one province from Serbia if I annex all of Byzantium plus Athens, either Zeta or Nis. The other ones are too expensive or impossible to core.

 

[Nbyrd291]

Oh, I can take Kosovo. I'll do that over the coast province.

 

[Number 7]

Those were some very helpful answers. A few more questions

4. Missions: There are a number of missions and decisions I can take. The problem is, the game seems to give limited information with what happens if I take those missions. Now, I know from history what happens with Constantinople but if I didn't, the subsequent mission that makes Constantinople your capitol would be a (happy) surprise. However, this means National Decisions and missions may lead to the other missions or events that a first time player has no knowledge of and cannot plan for. Should I be researching every mission and National Decision to make sure it doesn't spark something later down the road that I don't want? Also, a more specific question, is gaining the manpower modifier from Adopting the Devshirme system worth the 100 military power? It seems like losing 100 military power at the very beginning is worth 10% more manpower until the end of the game.

5. Technology: So, there seem to be all sorts of factors affecting technological progress. It comes down to accumulating diplo/admin/mil points that slowly push you from one tech level to the next. However, as the Ottomans I am not in the Western tech group, and there seem to be all sorts of strange rules that modify my tech progress (instituitons/borders/piety). What should I be looking out for and responding to as the Ottomans so that I don't screw up and fall too much behind in tech?

4 - i just click missions with nice effects. don't overthink it unless you're trying to do a very min-maxed run. Same for decisions really.

5 - all tech has a base cost, without institutions this cost goes up over time capping at 50% in 50 years. therefore, institutions are good to embrace. forget everything else about tech for now. there is more stuff you can min-max but just focus on the basics when you're new. get institutions!

how do you get institutions? either you meet the criterea for it to grow in your provinces (for example - be friendly and bordering someone who has it) or you develop a province to get it. That's all there is to it. on the province tab, theres a button on the bottom left interface to let you see institutions growth in the province. hovering over it tells you the modifiers such as "20 development capital in europe". so if you meet that, that institution grows there.

 

[Nbyrd291]

Thanks again, everyone. I feel much more comfortable with the game now, having fun instead of feeling overwhelmed.

9. Does the bonus certain estates give to you only apply to the provinces they control? If so, I assume that means I should strategically send them land that works well with their bonus.

By the way, you don't give them land in the estates tab like you'd think. Instead, I had to click on the province i wanted them to own, and looked at the right window with the "buildings" title, there in that window is an option to give land to an estate.

 

[grommile]

9. Does the bonus certain estates give to you only apply to the provinces they control? If so, I assume that means I should strategically send them land that works well with their bonus.

The bonuses listed in the Estates tab (e.g. the manpower recovery speed from the Nobles or the stability discount from the Clergy) apply to your entire country. Estates also apply other modifiers which only apply to the provinces they control. For example, a province controlled by the clergy gets:

• Ignore autonomy penalties to tax income
• -2 Unrest if the clergy are loyal (40% to 59.9% loyalty)
  
• -2 Unrest, +2% local missionary strength, and +10% local tax income if the clergy are happy (60% to 100% loyalty)
• +5 Unrest if the clergy are angry (0% to 39.9% loyalty)

Unlike the national modifiers, these are unaffected by influence; only loyalty matters.