No CB Circassia is an alternative path. While this territory is not worth the effort to conquer it early on its own, it starts the process of pushing into India faster. Usually you can just smash Crimea using Lith claims and go more directly though.
EU4 Poland is completely broken
- Thread starter ZeDasCouves
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Friendly vassals will claim lands you set as strategic interest in the diplo map mode, so AI claiming land is pretty predictable.
Also, did you know that moldavia can claim constantinople near game start?
Did you know that a vassalized Byzantium can reconquest the balkans?
Did you know that a a vassalized and ressurected purple pheonix is stronk AF?
Also, did you know that moldavia can claim constantinople near game start?
Did you know that a vassalized Byzantium can reconquest the balkans?
Did you know that a a vassalized and ressurected purple pheonix is stronk AF?
The answers to this thread are quiet lame.
OP made some fair points, and he never said that "I blindly follow some maybe outdated guide which asumes every RNGesus roll was in my favor".
ATM, poland is way harder than on most patches befor.
The NIs are not to discuss, they kick in too late, when ottos already have Jannis and Russia has Strelzi.
Beating Ottos or Muscovy early on is no "peace of cake" for every player with every given die roll.
Beating Teutons + Kalmar is no peace of cake either.
Poland is totaly dependend of Lit's troops. If he thinks its better to hide on the other side of the map, poland is fuked.
If Austria and bohemia rival poland, there is literally NO ally worh to take.
If Ottos and muscovy and kalmar and Teutons decide to rape, poland gets raped.
Most games in the area around ottos are luck based anyway, since they got spacemans in 1480 with 10% disc + morale + recovery. If they roll a decent shock general, they are nearly unstoppable.
Not saying that its impossible to survive as poland, but you need to be at least somewhat lucky and quiet a decent player.
The part with the luck is what annoys me here... Its a strategy game, but more often that not RNGesus decides who wins if the odds are not in your favor...
OP made some fair points, and he never said that "I blindly follow some maybe outdated guide which asumes every RNGesus roll was in my favor".
ATM, poland is way harder than on most patches befor.
The NIs are not to discuss, they kick in too late, when ottos already have Jannis and Russia has Strelzi.
Beating Ottos or Muscovy early on is no "peace of cake" for every player with every given die roll.
Beating Teutons + Kalmar is no peace of cake either.
Poland is totaly dependend of Lit's troops. If he thinks its better to hide on the other side of the map, poland is fuked.
If Austria and bohemia rival poland, there is literally NO ally worh to take.
If Ottos and muscovy and kalmar and Teutons decide to rape, poland gets raped.
Most games in the area around ottos are luck based anyway, since they got spacemans in 1480 with 10% disc + morale + recovery. If they roll a decent shock general, they are nearly unstoppable.
Not saying that its impossible to survive as poland, but you need to be at least somewhat lucky and quiet a decent player.
The part with the luck is what annoys me here... Its a strategy game, but more often that not RNGesus decides who wins if the odds are not in your favor...
The thread honestly reminded a lot of Dark Souls boss discussions. A lot of famously hard bosses are easy if you use the One Perfect Tactic but I think basing difficulty on the path of absolute least resistance possible is a mistake when so much can go wrong.
That said, Poland's position is better than many countries in the region.
I agree the Denmark- Muscovy alliance is lame and should be less absurdly common- but novel idea here, just ally Denmark as Poland?
There is couples problems with Poland, and opening moves.First-all surrounding countries have way better military traditions.Second-if first war with whoever is taxing on Lithuania much ,she start to use edicts all over the place, and in effect reduce standing army in half or more-so Poland has to fight rebels there to keep union.
Polish ideas shines from 1500 onwards so there is no need to rush.My openings is to get Bohemia as ally for first 50-80years, add warn all the states in north Germany.Convert all ortodox provinces and annex Mazovia. This can be done circa 1460.And in all my games there is some moves You can exploit at this time.Aliance web shifting constantly.
Polish ideas shines from 1500 onwards so there is no need to rush.My openings is to get Bohemia as ally for first 50-80years, add warn all the states in north Germany.Convert all ortodox provinces and annex Mazovia. This can be done circa 1460.And in all my games there is some moves You can exploit at this time.Aliance web shifting constantly.
have we finally reached a point where plc no longer is demanded to be nerfed
i thought il never see a day
its done paradox
you finally balanced plc
now i hope you do a good job with the ottomans next patch
i thought il never see a day
its done paradox
you finally balanced plc
now i hope you do a good job with the ottomans next patch
Polish ideas are so ahistorically broken at every stage in the game. The only country which can beat Poland is a Prussia at full militarization. They have no weakness, they never fall off, they do everything amazing. Their infantry are only a little weaker than Prussia's, but they have -10% regiment cost meaning they can merc spam so much harder. Their cavalry is the strongest in the game with the Cossack estate effectively putting them at 66% cavalry strength. At tech 32 Polish Cavalry will STILL out perform even Prussian infantry.
They have 25% manpower, so no weakness there. -0.02 war exhaustion randomly. The only countries with more morale are France and Prussia by... 5.
The only reason Polish ideas don't just rupture the game in 2 is that Prussia exists with their stupid ass broken government.
They have 25% manpower, so no weakness there. -0.02 war exhaustion randomly. The only countries with more morale are France and Prussia by... 5.
The only reason Polish ideas don't just rupture the game in 2 is that Prussia exists with their stupid ass broken government.
Late game Poland might be very strong, still they have a tough time going there.
The early game is where all depends on luck, as for every country in the path of ottomans.
Here a screenshot. Sure, everybody can easily defeat them. Why not...
If you can't figure out the flags: Ottomans are allied with France, Bohemia and Aragon, who has Naples and Castille in PU.
this game isn't as linear as dark souls.
With a powerful position as Poland you have 20+ opening strategies to choose from.
Even hellholes like Theodore get multiple viable openings...
Problem is blindly following guide.
Ok,
let me clarify what I meant...
Polish manpower, income, ideas... all are awesome. I don't mean it's broken as in "it needs to be nerfed".
I'm also not comparing w/ playing a small nation which of course should be way harder...
I'm also not saying poland has nowhere to expand, as it clearly has many routes of expansion
The same goes for the first war w/ LO + Kalmar which IS hard but is maneageble.
@netherlink got my point right.
What I meant is: poland is SEVERELY impaired by the new "every nation will Rival you" diplomatic system as it WILL inevitably lead to an Oto + Rus alliance that WILL declare war on you by mid 1500's once your allies are worn out from another war, and you will be raped.
The awnser of course should be: "beat the Oto or the Rus early on".
Well, I really believe this should "right" challenge, if you are facing one of this nations by themselves, as both have higher manpower and tradition so you have to overcome through good strategy... but right now you just can't make it happen.
Otos can be defeated once or twice but not anihillated up to late 1500s which means Rus + Oto still chushes you.
Rus can't be defeated because they are allied to Kalmar.
So, if polish game has any chance of being interesting, either the russians should ally the danish OR the otomans never BOTH as it is just crazy "AI tries to artificially fuck the player".
P.S. On the same page "AI alliances is just not fun to play anymore", once I just declared war against Bohemia (w/ sweden on my side) and got "great power intervention" from Otos + Rus + France + Aragon... Fucking 350k troops by early 1600s... the entire civilized world teamed up against me. Fuck that.
let me clarify what I meant...
Polish manpower, income, ideas... all are awesome. I don't mean it's broken as in "it needs to be nerfed".
I'm also not comparing w/ playing a small nation which of course should be way harder...
I'm also not saying poland has nowhere to expand, as it clearly has many routes of expansion
The same goes for the first war w/ LO + Kalmar which IS hard but is maneageble.
@netherlink got my point right.
What I meant is: poland is SEVERELY impaired by the new "every nation will Rival you" diplomatic system as it WILL inevitably lead to an Oto + Rus alliance that WILL declare war on you by mid 1500's once your allies are worn out from another war, and you will be raped.
The awnser of course should be: "beat the Oto or the Rus early on".
Well, I really believe this should "right" challenge, if you are facing one of this nations by themselves, as both have higher manpower and tradition so you have to overcome through good strategy... but right now you just can't make it happen.
Otos can be defeated once or twice but not anihillated up to late 1500s which means Rus + Oto still chushes you.
Rus can't be defeated because they are allied to Kalmar.
So, if polish game has any chance of being interesting, either the russians should ally the danish OR the otomans never BOTH as it is just crazy "AI tries to artificially fuck the player".
P.S. On the same page "AI alliances is just not fun to play anymore", once I just declared war against Bohemia (w/ sweden on my side) and got "great power intervention" from Otos + Rus + France + Aragon... Fucking 350k troops by early 1600s... the entire civilized world teamed up against me. Fuck that.
I am someone who also agrees the rival system needs tweaking as it makes some games lost causes before you unpause. (though it was "Recommended for New Players" Castile/Portugal getting roflstomped by a France/Aragon alliance three games out of four in my case)
Still, there are a couple of things you can do to up your odds, some depending on DLC.
First, have you ever considered Brandenburg as an ally for that first TO war? as long as you start it before the sale of Newark triggers for them, they should be positively thrilled at you offering it to them as payment for joining up. Obviously you're almost certainly going to have to dump them at some point for better allies (especially if they try to drag you into fighting half the major HRE states to take Silesia), but for a quick reliable ally, they're pretty good.
Second, if you have Art of War and Cossacks, Lithuania doesn't have to be a sketchy ally. With Art of War, you can set their military focus to either Supportive to stick close to you (often in a one-province-away-to-lure-armies way too) Siege to stick to taking proviences while you hunt down armies, or Defensive to hunt down armies while you siege. With Cossacks, your subjects will fabricate claims on any neighbor you are hostile or rivaled to, and you can set hostility on your own regardless of the current mutual opinion, so setting LO to hostile should encourage Lithuania to fabricate the claims you need to go to war with them should TO ally Denmark or another nearby nation you don't want to fight yet.
Finally, if Austria, Hungary and/or Bohemia are giving you the middle finger, consider looking a bit further for allies to protect against any possible Muscovy/Ottoman Alliance. If Austria rivaled you, France will almost certainly be willing to ally, and barring *really* horrible luck with taking back their cores from England, should be strong enough to scare most alliances, and is unlikely to be weakened to the point where they'd bail on you either.
Still, there are a couple of things you can do to up your odds, some depending on DLC.
First, have you ever considered Brandenburg as an ally for that first TO war? as long as you start it before the sale of Newark triggers for them, they should be positively thrilled at you offering it to them as payment for joining up. Obviously you're almost certainly going to have to dump them at some point for better allies (especially if they try to drag you into fighting half the major HRE states to take Silesia), but for a quick reliable ally, they're pretty good.
Second, if you have Art of War and Cossacks, Lithuania doesn't have to be a sketchy ally. With Art of War, you can set their military focus to either Supportive to stick close to you (often in a one-province-away-to-lure-armies way too) Siege to stick to taking proviences while you hunt down armies, or Defensive to hunt down armies while you siege. With Cossacks, your subjects will fabricate claims on any neighbor you are hostile or rivaled to, and you can set hostility on your own regardless of the current mutual opinion, so setting LO to hostile should encourage Lithuania to fabricate the claims you need to go to war with them should TO ally Denmark or another nearby nation you don't want to fight yet.
Finally, if Austria, Hungary and/or Bohemia are giving you the middle finger, consider looking a bit further for allies to protect against any possible Muscovy/Ottoman Alliance. If Austria rivaled you, France will almost certainly be willing to ally, and barring *really* horrible luck with taking back their cores from England, should be strong enough to scare most alliances, and is unlikely to be weakened to the point where they'd bail on you either.
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If Bohemia and Ottos allied, I bet there's a 80% chance that both of them rivalled Austria. So Austria does not defend Bohemia, use that to play around the situation.
If you think Poland is bad, try Novgorod. Start game, rivals: Lithuania, LO, Denmark, Tver, Muscovy. Few days in: Muscovy allies Denmark. February 1445: the scoundrels in Muscovy have declared war!
Boy, was that fun...
I recently did Novgorod as well..oh my god the start sucked, but after the second war vs Muscovy it turned into a pretty standard Russia game
First : you dont have cossacks estate as Poland at start of the game.
Second : Austria allies hungary early game (in like 1st month ?) so forget about any opening move there.
Third : TO 100% allies hungary or denmark and like 50% chances that they will ally both (i was doing like 300 restarts of the game just to get jagiellon on bohemian throne while they are beign rivaled by austria so i can PU them in first few years and those were roughly their first few months alliances)
Fourth : you can mark LO lands as provinces of intrest so Lithuania will fabricate claims there but then once Muscovy rivals you they will ally LO.
Fifth : you cant involve your allies in early offensive wars due favour system (sometimes even if you have enough favours your allies wont help you in offensive war due their attitude toward country you are about to attack).
So no you dont have easy path. I am not saying its impossible or something but in current patches start of game as poland is like 10 times harder than before. Also for some reason Lithuania have tendecy to suicide their armies even if you use subject interaction which should make them attach to your armies or any other option. Also once renaissance starts lithuania sets edicts in all regions to +33 institution spread which lowers their income so much that they are affording like 12k army (compared to 25k they field in 1444).
Not mentioning that political system of Poland in current form is failure. You have no real control over your heir (in ordinary monarchy you can at least make heir general and try to kill him if he is terrible ...).