EU4 Poland is completely broken

[ZeDasCouves]

The game as it is since AoW and patch 1.22 - is completely unplayable as Poland...

Basically what's been the universal strategy is to jump on Teutonic Order and Livonian Order early on...
Previous patches this could easily be done, you could just use the CB you get early form a mission, check which alliances TO / LO assumed, maybe call pomerania / brandenburg. Now there's a 95% chance TO will ally denmark right on, which leaves you depending on Lithuania creating CB on LO, so you can avoid war with denmark. The AI CB on this case is completely random and sometimes won't happen at all, leaving you no other choice.

It sucks to just wait for some random events from your allies having no other thing to do....
But that's not the main issue here.

Suppose everything goes right (either by going to war and beating denmark or by avoiding Den altogether through war on LO). So, you make your first succesfull war, and you're able to take some territories from TO / LO. Once you do that, Denmark WILL ally muscovy RIGHT AWAY leaving you NO chance of ever beating the russians early on, which was the dominant strategy on every "guide" i've seen so far.

Ottomans also became unbeatable, as they were buffed even further w/ cossacs, which is absolutely lame.

So, suppose you decide to carry on w/ Denmark Allied Muscovy... You'll have no chance of going north... or west since you can't join the empire anymore.... So you can only expand south, through crimea, maybe arabia or africa... you may even be able to conquer / vassalize Bizantium before the otomans...

However, ANYTHING you do here, WILL inevitably leads to Ottoman allying Russians. AND... when this happens by the mid 1500's you'll be facing a ottoman + russian aggression war which beats you no matter what alliances you have.

I've tried dozens of variations but ALWAYS it seems that you can't avoid an unbeatable Russ + Denm followed by Russ + Oto leading to your utter destruction.

 

[LetaBot]

Meme it by taking exploration ideas and millitary acces till you see Ming. Then become its tributary so you are safe from attack.

 

[Swami]

I really hope that the next patch brings an end to the unholy alliances of the Ottomans, like with the Russians. I mean not uncommon they get alliances with France, Bohemia or Russia and help the other nation destroy whatever is next the them completely.

 

[Twoflower]

I realize this is a terribly rude and silly thing to say, but...git gud?
Defeating a TO allied with the Kalmar Union is perfectly possible. You might benefit from having some decent allies yourself (Austria is a prime candidate, but Brandenburg and other HRE states can also be helpful), but it's not really required. Of course, if you get jumped by any of you southern or western neighbours, things might get tricky, but that's what diplomacy is for.

A Russian-Ottoman juggernaut may look scary, but it's absolutely beatable. As said before, Austria is a great friend to have.

Personally, I would consider a country "broken" if you are certain to succeed blindly following some guide. That's not strategy, that's paint-by-the-numbers.

 

[Swirly Mango]

Ok, you're bad at the game.

1. Poland has the best National Ideas in the game bar none. There is no conceivable argument with merit that can be made to deny this.

2. Learn to fight wars more efficiently:
A) Aim to attack into flat lands (grassland, steppe, drylands, farmlands) unless against a horde.
B) Watch out for that little thing called attrition when you move your armies and only leave the minimum+1 amount of troops to siege.
C) Use your vassals with the subject interaction screen by placing them on supportive
D) Use the Cossack estate to gain +20% Cavalry Combat ability.

3. There are 6 (SIX) expansion paths as Poland: Baltic, Russia, Steppe, Anatolia, Hungary, HRE. Please don't say you can't expand. Since you're bad I will say do not expand into Anatolia after 1448 until the Ottomans are exhausted, they will have higher military technology than you.

Tl;dr git gud and stop blaming the game and developers, they're suspect enough to buff Poland _again_.

 

[mag_zbc]

The game as it is since AoW and patch 1.22 - is completely unplayable as Poland...

Failing to succeed by blindly following guides doesn't mean Poland is broken.

Polish military ideas are ones of the best in game, second only maybe to Brandenburg/Prussia. And if you're facing Ottoman-Russian alliance, it means that you've made a mistake of allowing Russia to form in the first place. Taking out muscovy early means huge development boost, the only thing you need to worry about it to get Religious ideas to convert them quickly. As for Ottomans, you can deny then Crimea by vassalizing it early.

Like others have said - git gud

 

[ParagonSaber]

IMO Poland and Lithuania are, hands down, the best nations in the game to play if you want to learn how to manage your manpower early game.

That, more than anything, is the issue with the PLC. Otherwise, they have the second highest troop count in the world (after Ming) at gamestart. With proper AI control, you can effectively control them all. With even subpar AI control, you can at least hold onto Mazovia and Moldavia's troops (put Lithuania on aggressive or defensive depending on your preference, make the others supportive).

Fighting a TO+Kalmar alliance is all about where you fight. If you're fighting in places like Tuchel, Marienburg, or Konigsburg, you're going to have issues. All of them are woods, and you need to avoid those penalties. Osterode, however, is grasslands. So, if you want to fight even battles while still sieging, try to draw the enemy there. Alternately, fight defensively and look to wear them out - the AI is awful at conserving its manpower.

Also be aware that loans are not the end of the world. If you can expand into the Baltic Sea node, your trade income rises sharply. To that effect, take whatever loans you need to beat the TO and get rid of the alliance with Denmark.

Remember to focus military points, as Kazimierz Jagiellion is a 4/4/1 - nat focus makes him a 3/3/3. You cannot afford to fall behind in mil tech, especially against Denmark. Get a morale advisor if available. Remember the nobility also has the insta-manpower button.

You're probably doing this already, but I'd recommend setting only Livonian land as vital interest early. That makes it far more likely for Lithuania to get the claim you need to circumvent the TO's alliances. It's possible to beat TO + LO + Kalmar, but if you can avoid it, all the better!

Lastly, do restart if the TO allies both Denmark and Hungary/Bohemia.

Poland is not by any means brokenly weak. You have to pick your battles and make good use of your resources. Then, when you have all your NI's you can just point at something and kill it.

 

[Pryka]

 

[Qba.Oledzki]

ZeDas, you seem to have a mentality problem.
Assumption that guides are the right, fool - proof way to go is extremely naive in a sandbox game like EU IV.
Guides are, well, just guides, not specific, foolproof instructions.

I'm not planning to play Poland any time soon, but I'm currently running series with Florence with the goal of forming the Roman Empire and completing Mare Nostrum achievement on Hard Ironman. Along the way I'll have plenty of fights against vastly superior enemies, Ottomans included. Perhaps you could profit by watching my decision making proces and then using analogies to your campaign?

Here's episode 2 in which I already fight enemies that are at least equal to my strength, with assymetry only going to increase as time passes on:

The trick is to callously abuse your allies, use the right moment when enemy is weakend, maintain stronger economy and, most important for warfare management - manpower reserves. They're crucial. As Poland you don't start with big manpower pool, keep that in mind and avoid senseless casualties in any conflict. Your armies are top notch, quality-wise. Use that to your advantage, and when you decide to strike, strike really, really hard.

 

[Sfan]

Also keep in mind that you don't have to win especially hard against Teutonic Order. You just need to break their alliance with Denmark, that's 10 warscore. Come back in 6 years for 100 warscore.
Hungary is also a great expansion path. Check for when Austria fights Burgundy over Liege and wait until they dishonor the CtA. You can ally Bohemia or Venice, depending on rivalries, to have an easier time getting on Hungary.

 

[mag_zbc]

Hungary is also a great expansion path.

To get that sweet gold mine in Hont

 

[Dracolithfiend]

Only part of this I agree with is the ottoman-Russian alliance shenanagins. Granted that is because the AI collapses in most of my games leaving the ottomans in control of the entirety of Poland, Lithuania, Hungary, the Balkans, Persia, Egypt, Ethiopia, along with their starting clay.

Russia/Ottomans should get the historical rivals modifier. Muscovy should not. A simple and historically accurate fix.

 

[mag_zbc]

Russia/Ottomans should get the historical rivals modifier. Muscovy should not. A simple and historically accurate fix.

Or perhaps should AI be more inclined to rival a country holding its permanent claims? I always wondered, why would Russia ally Ottomans that hold Crimea region?

 

[schondetta]

as a mediocre player I have had no problem curb stomping otto derps in the first 20 years of the game as Poland. earlier the easier. Russia is paper tiger. otto ruso alliance is lame but its not like you dont have 6000 ways to get around that. attacking allys of allys etc

 

[Sfan]

I played as Poland a bit, for the first 20 years, and I managed to get an alliance with the Mamluks, and to call them in against the Ottos. Complete piece of cake, we had almost twice the numbers. As always with the Ottomans, the earlier the better.
And Polish economy is insanely good once you get the CoT and estuaries from Baltic.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Denmark was certainly annoying for the into space run this patch I'm doing. I did win the Denmark + Muscovy war with Bohemia as only ally.

Muscovy then allied Ottomans, which is also annoying. Fortunately, my run was made easy by Muscovy throwing via ALSO guaranteeing a damaged great horde, so that allowed me to freely cancel its alliance with Ottomans + Denmark and absolutely body it a few years later.

This is a plodding rate where I took influence/humanist and relied a lot on subject claims:



There are many players who can outpace this, but in this position it is possible to one-tag WC.

Although Ottomans eventually broke it, I was able to ally them early by using "enforce peace" to join a war on their side vs Iberians to push me over + 100, clearing "hostile status". After they rivaled me I just allied France.

 

[Sfan]

You're catholic? Orthodox is the one true PLC, why catholic if you don't take Religious and don't convert?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You're catholic? Orthodox is the one true PLC, why catholic if you don't take Religious and don't convert?

There was conversion being done though . I have three Islamic provinces in that picture. Cardinals + conversion is still good PI.

Mostly I just didn't feel like converting. I considered going reformed but I can just buy diprep whenever I want from PI and otherwise use it for stability, nice and lazy.

 

[bbqftw]

You assume that your expansion paths are even dictated by borders.

You don't need to fight TO even with nightmare alliance of Denmark and Hungary. Don't do expensive war when you can do cheap ones. Not like Poland has trouble finding allies anyways.

Worst comes to worst there's always Ireland.

 

[Sfan]

Well Ireland is a bit harder as Poland, they're still landlocked unless you annex Moldavia or win a war, so getting to Ireland is pretty much impossible.