EU4 Leviathan - Development Diary 23rd of February 2021

[cotne22]

After a brutal five-year war, the Ottoman and Venetian diplomats finally meet to make peace and end the bloodshed. The Ottomans managed to capture most of Venice's territory, but the island itself managed to resist the invaders thanks to naval superiority. The Ottomans demanded Istria and the Aegean islands that were under Venetian control as well as war reparations. "What else should I ask for?" wondered the Turkish envoy. Suddenly, Mehmet's eyes widened and he smiled, "Why don't you let us raze your capital for a few days?", he said. His Venetian counterpart was shocked "Let you raze our capital?! Then what, you're just gonna leave?". Mehmet nodded, noting "Yes, we'll just loot and raze your capital to the ground and then leave like nothing happened." Seeing no other choice, the Venetian accepted.
When he returned to the island, the Venetian diplomat was declared a madman and thrown into a prison.

 

[master_kong]

Well in the 2nd world war both Germany and Japan took what they could, so I assume it worked that way in the past too

Any precedent from the EU4 era?

 

[Metz]

Any precedent from the EU4 era?

The Deluge in Poland caused by Sweden. Though most of the plundering was used to maintain mercenary wages in order to keep plundering.

 

[master_kong]

The Deluge in Poland caused by Sweden. Though most of the plundering was used to maintain mercenary wages in order to keep plundering.

See, that looks exactly like the thing Sack of x events in the game trying to model. A pillage capital peace term seems so out of the place.

 

[Battlex]

Any precedent from the EU4 era?

Swedes in Bohemia in 30 years war
Nader Shah sack of dehli

After a brutal five-year war, the Ottoman and Venetian diplomats finally meet to make peace and end the bloodshed. The Ottomans managed to capture most of Venice's territory, but the island itself managed to resist the invaders thanks to naval superiority. The Ottomans demanded Istria and the Aegean islands that were under Venetian control as well as war reparations. "What else should I ask for?" wondered the Turkish envoy. Suddenly, Mehmet's eyes widened and he smiled, "Why don't you let us raze your capital for a few days?", he said. His Venetian counterpart was shocked "Let you raze our capital?! Then what, you're just gonna leave?". Mehmet nodded, noting "Yes, we'll just loot and raze your capital to the ground and then leave like nothing happened." Seeing no other choice, the Venetian accepted.
When he returned to the island, the Venetian diplomat was declared a madman and thrown into a prison.

It'll likely have - 1000 reasons if you don't own the capital

 

[cotne22]

Swedes in Bohemia in 30 years war
Nader Shah sack of dehli

It'll likely have - 1000 reasons if you don't own the capital

Doesn't stop a player in multiplayer unless it's impossible to select as an option if they don't control your capital. One country razing another's capital is no rarity historically, but I find it being a peace term a bit ridiculous "We'll just raze your capital, ok?". If you control their capital, why do you have to ask for permission to raze it? The only example of this happening was Rome in 455.

 

[master_kong]

Swedes in Bohemia in 30 years war
Nader Shah sack of dehli

Those are sacking events which already in the game.

 

[Battlex]

See, that looks exactly like the thing Sack of x events in the game trying to model. A pillage capital peace term seems so out of the place.

It gives HRE states a reason to not blob, and let's Eastern States do something more historical

 

[Battlex]

Those are sacking events which already in the game.

Sack of Prague is on siege tick during league wars
Never seen a sack of dehli event

 

[master_kong]

Sack of Prague is on siege tick during league wars
Never seen a sack of dehli event

I meant sack events from army professionalism again. (sack of x)

 

[Battlex]

I meant sack events from army professionalism again. (sack of x)

Which got broken with the sack of Rome event to no longer give ducats.

 

[Mister X]

achievement idea:

Can't have sh*t in Detroit: steal development from the province of Potawatomi (Detroit) for certain total amount (comparable to like pillaging it like 5 times)

 

[Sapa Inca]

Fifty percent of that development will be going directly to your capital, while thirty percent will be distributed randomly among stated provinces, while the final twenty percent is lost.

The idea is good but in my opinion, if the idea is centered around tall play the following changes should be made:

1- Cooldown should be reduced but it should be a empire wide cooldown and not a cooldown for each area, otherwise wide will benift more than tall because wide will have more territories and more areas.

2- The numbers, 50% for capital, 30% for states and 20% lost should be changed. For example, 20% lost is fine, 50% for capital should be greatly reduced and 30% for states should be proprotionally increased but development gained by states should include capital state. The reason for this change is that wide will have more states, so, development gained will be more distributed between states (including capital state) and will result in lesser development density and lesser benefits, while tall will have less states and better capacity to concentrate development more in his capital.

3- AI should not spam "pillage capital" peace term, otherwise, regions with higher tag density like the HRE will become the less developed area of the game while regions with little tag density would be unaffected.

 

[Rycestealer]

I don't know how I feel about the whole thing. I think the consolidate development feature is neat, but I feel like it will turn into another regular button push for the player to push every 50 years and isn't inherently due to a overall lack of vassal-overlord play in the current game. The new government reforms are always welcome, but I don't think I will ever choose to go down that group since vassal play is not inherently difficult due to the current limits on vassalization to development instead of relative size making them a nonthreat. Pillage capital seems like a awful CB. If you take AE from taking development you might as well go for gold or Show Superiority(which is technically worse in regards to mana, but doesn't cost AE). I hope these features are elaborated on or there are some real changes to the economic/development system for tall players to mess around with.

 

[Rycestealer]

See, that looks exactly like the thing Sack of x events in the game trying to model. A pillage capital peace term seems so out of the place.

They should just expand the looting mechanics. Devastation and prosperity could play a bigger role in game and sacking areas for gold can passively increase your development. This could also play a role in army professionalism and merc upkeep.

 

[Vohen]

Because it matters far more for game balance, Naples and low countries are high dev, Scots and Irish aren't, so being unable to release the latter doesn't matter

I see, the Irish and Scottish aren't very important in the grand scheme of things for this period, so they should be erased from the face of the (old) world.
Screw them, right?
And screw it if the English decide to ship ever Frenchmen, Dutch, German, Danish or everyone else in existence to the old world as well, they get a free pass because of reasons.

The post mughal pre British era is called The Anarchy for a reason

Ah, so in that period the British turned India into Siberia.
Must have missed that in my history lessons.

All joking aside, mate, we clearly disagree in this issue, but the fact remains that they changed the mechanic for that reason.
Agree or disagree with it all you like, that fact remains.

 

[celethiel]

I am not sure how this construes as playing tall when you're just redistrubiting the points from one part of your country to another with some losses in between. The only part of that that i'd call playing tall is the declaring war to steal people's development in their capital. Which also conflicts with the whole not going to war 90 percent of the time. I don't think i'd ever use it on my own country... maybe on France or Turkey as Austria or someone else, or upon my vassals to reduce the cost of annexing them... BUT it causes them to dislike me.... which in turn makes the relationship unstable and take longer to bring them up to annex them.

 

[Battlex]

I am not sure how this construes as playing tall when you're just redistrubiting the points from one part of your country to another with some losses in between. The only part of that that i'd call playing tall is the declaring war to steal people's development in their capital. Which also conflicts with the whole not going to war 90 percent of the time. I don't think i'd ever use it on my own country... maybe on France or Turkey as Austria or someone else, or upon my vassals to reduce the cost of annexing them... BUT it causes them to dislike me.... which in turn makes the relationship unstable and take longer to bring them up to annex them.

You could do it whilst annexing them to speed it up

 

[cotne22]

How is concentrate development a tall play feature if it can only be used on territories or subjects? What is someone playing tall gonna do, sell those provinces and release subjects after using it?

 

[CMDR_HERNE]

If this expansion successfully facilitates playing tall then I'm all for it.