So I was world conquesting and I manage to take a large amount of land by the early 17th century, so attrition is my big problem when I'm steam rolling. So I came up with an idea to avoid attrition while in war and that is to have a regiment that is purely artillery stack so that I can get the full artillery bonus in sieging. But I was wondering which one can siege faster, a regiment that has a 30:0:30 Ratio, which has 30k Infantry and 30k Artillery or a regiment that has only 30k Artillery or both of them siege at the same speed. I'm quite new at the game but I'm so obessed with world conquest so I need your knowledge to aid me.
EU4: Does infantry play a role in sieging high level forts?
- Thread starter PeaceBreak
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Infantry plays a role only to the extent that:
1. If you want to storm the fortress, only infantry can do that. If memory serves you need about 4x the garrison to kill it. (It's a terrible use of manpower, but a potentially good use of mercs if you don't care about professionalism.)
2. If your opponent or its allies relieve the siege (including by having the garrison do a sortie) they'll slaughter your artillery-only unit unless you get a reinforcement stack in there before the battle starts.
1. If you want to storm the fortress, only infantry can do that. If memory serves you need about 4x the garrison to kill it. (It's a terrible use of manpower, but a potentially good use of mercs if you don't care about professionalism.)
2. If your opponent or its allies relieve the siege (including by having the garrison do a sortie) they'll slaughter your artillery-only unit unless you get a reinforcement stack in there before the battle starts.
The correct answer is:
- The number of troops required to siege down a province (regardless of unit mix) is: (Fort Level * 3) + account for attrition and manpower issues.
Thus, for a level 1 fort (capital without fort) you need 3 units, for a capital with a level 2 fort you need 9 units, for a level 8 fort you need 24 units.
But realistically, due to attrition and often manpower issues, it's preferrable to bring 4, 10 and 25 units, respectively.
- To get the maximum bonus for siege, you need artillery units equal to Fort level * 5.
Thus, for a level 2 fort you need 10 artillery, for a level 8 fort you need 40 artillery pieces.
Disregarding other effects on siege efficiency (like threats from attacks), the most efficient way to siege down a province is:
- Create an all-artillery stack corresponding to the fort level, plus a number of units to migitate the attrition. For example, to siege down a level 8 fort with 5% attrition, bring 42 artillery.
- Attach a general with siege pips (and preferrably some maneuver pips).
The lazy way to do it (the way I do it) is:
- create a full combat-width stack (at max combat width that would be 38 infantry, 2 cavalry, 40 artillery).
- move the whole army with general attached to target fort
- detach infantry and move it to adjacent province. This leaves the general with 40 artillery and 2 cavalry, with 38 infantry standing by in case of attack.
- The number of troops required to siege down a province (regardless of unit mix) is: (Fort Level * 3) + account for attrition and manpower issues.
Thus, for a level 1 fort (capital without fort) you need 3 units, for a capital with a level 2 fort you need 9 units, for a level 8 fort you need 24 units.
But realistically, due to attrition and often manpower issues, it's preferrable to bring 4, 10 and 25 units, respectively.
- To get the maximum bonus for siege, you need artillery units equal to Fort level * 5.
Thus, for a level 2 fort you need 10 artillery, for a level 8 fort you need 40 artillery pieces.
Disregarding other effects on siege efficiency (like threats from attacks), the most efficient way to siege down a province is:
- Create an all-artillery stack corresponding to the fort level, plus a number of units to migitate the attrition. For example, to siege down a level 8 fort with 5% attrition, bring 42 artillery.
- Attach a general with siege pips (and preferrably some maneuver pips).
The lazy way to do it (the way I do it) is:
- create a full combat-width stack (at max combat width that would be 38 infantry, 2 cavalry, 40 artillery).
- move the whole army with general attached to target fort
- detach infantry and move it to adjacent province. This leaves the general with 40 artillery and 2 cavalry, with 38 infantry standing by in case of attack.
How about in a situation where there's only sieging without the use of storming the fortress after a wall breach, both regiments have no general, which one can siege faster? Or is it that both of them have the same level of sieging without storming the fort?
So Infantry does not provide any help in sieging high level forts? By the way, your idea is so brilliant. I'll start using it from now on.
Infantry helps insomuch that the siege will start (or keep ticking on) if your army lacks sufficient number of artillery pieces.
For example if you want to start the siege of a level 8 fort with only 12 artillery pieces, with more on the way. In this case, 12 infantry would help start the siege, as it brings the required number of troops to the minimum of 24.
Yeah, once you've hit the minimum number of troops, infantry only matters if you want to storm the fort or if there are nearby armies that could slaughter your cannons. Beware that the AI will attack cannon-only units - and it'll use a high maneuver general to reach the fort before your general-less stack of infantry arrives.
There are two common solutions to this problem, which is real:
1) keep track of enemy units (i.e. engage them elsewhere) by checking the ledger often. If you know your stack can be threathened, don't detach the infantry.
2) don't be shy to use forced march once it becomes available. 2 mil points are worth less than a wiped artillery stack.
My personal favourite, though, is to keep two armies for each siege, one sieging with detached infantry, and one full width around the corner. This way wars may go slower, but siege stacks are AI magnets and I usually end up stackwiping the enemy instead, which probably speeds up the war anyway.
AI uses forced march too, unfortunately. If you don't have a high maneuver general on your reinforcement stack you're usually screwed with a canon-only stack in my own experience.
Might be just me, but I tend to siege with merc + canon stacks, with a nearby stack to complete it so it has full width front row (plus some) + (ideally) full width canons. It's still an AI magnet but every time I tried canon only units I ended up with the AI force marching in there.
not really slaughter them... artillery fare quite well with no infantry they are just very expensive to replenish... I actually did a recent test (again) on this issue since I had the best circumstances to do so... could repeat same battle over and over and make small adjustments... long story short... outnumbered cannons slightly, only cannons army... around 13k art army... They decimated my regular army with infantry, cav and artillery since they dealt so much damage in first phase... and they didn´t really take more damage than the battle that just had ended where my enemy had a regular army... if artillery would have been that much worse, A) I wouldn´t have lost when outnumbering them with infantry, cavalry and backup artillery B) they would take WAY more losses than the other battle that just had concluded...
This is most definitely not the case in most scenarios. The AI got smarter in the recent patches, and it takes into consideration the general position of forces on the map. If you have overwhelming forces at one fort, the AI will attempt to use its forces elsewhere to siege forts or provinces.
The only nations that will do what you describe are those with army size parity, meaning France, Ming, Ottomans and sometimes Russia.
Against these largest opponents, I siege down only the number of forts I can back up with an equal army size and I usually don't detach infantry until I deplete their troops somehwat.
Lets say the combat width is 30 and war is against France.
If I have 120k troops, France has 100k, I'll split into 2 full width stacks, one will siege, the other will be in the adjacent province (split into two half-stacks for less attrition if possible).
If I have 180k troops and france still has 100k, I'll split into 3 full width stacks, two will siege adjacent forts (say Avignon and Lyonnais) while the third will be positioned between them to be able to reinforce both as needed.
This also enables me, if France commits all 100k to one battle, to detach reinforcements from the uncontested siege and fully commit most troops to that battle.
Note that this does not even take into consideration friendly allies which can distract their forces, say by marching into northern France, but it does account for enemy allied troops, which you should take into consideration when declaring wars.