EU4 diplomacy is for children

[Howl]

"Dad, are those boats fighting?"
"Yes. These are spanish ships and those are mine. We are at war, so we are fighting."
"What about those pirates? They are pirates, I see the flag!"
"Yes, they are pirates. But we are already fighting the spanish."
"What about the other ships. Why don't the other ships attack them?"
"They are not at war with the pirates."
"But... they are pirates. They steal and are mean. So, YOU send boats and attack them!"
"I cannot. And no one else can either. We cannot fight with pirates. Maybe they are hidden?"
"No, I see them. They are right there. In the middle of the lake (mediterranean). Why can we not attack them?"

Yes, Paradox, please explain this. Why not? My sanity and sleep depend on this.
Also, please put some dinosaur fossils in the desserts instead of the buffalo.

 

[Rocketskates]

"Dad, are those boats fighting?"
"Yes. These are spanish ships and those are mine. We are at war, so we are fighting."
"What about those pirates? They are pirates, I see the flag!"
"Yes, they are pirates. But we are already fighting the spanish."
"What about the other ships. Why don't the other ships attack them?"
"They are not at war with the pirates."
"But... they are pirates. They steal and are mean. So, YOU send boats and attack them!"
"I cannot. And no one else can either. We cannot fight with pirates. Maybe they are hidden?"
"No, I see them. They are right there. In the middle of the lake (mediterranean). Why can we not attack them?"

Yes, Paradox, please explain this. Why not? My sanity and sleep depend on this.
Also, please put some dinosaur fossils in the desserts instead of the buffalo.

you send big ships to hunt pirates and tell him the pirates cant hurt anybody since you are protecting them and only open war lets you sink those ships

 

[Sondrety]

I swear to god there are some grown men in my MP games that would benefit from this young despots advice

 

[uberjedi]

He is clearly destined for greatness.
By greatness I mean bloodshedding and tears.

 

[Dakka]

Yes, Paradox, please explain this. Why not? My sanity and sleep depend on this.

I’m going to give you a serious response:
Because if you could attack pirates without war, it would be easily exploitable to use a massive fleet to systematically pick off different fleets without actually being at war. Alternatively, on the flip side, pirating would be utterly useless for anyone because their ships would just get killed off since they are hostile with literally everyone. The mechanic would be completely suicidal

 

[Zohtun]

I’m going to give you a serious response:
Because if you could attack pirates without war, it would be easily exploitable to use a massive fleet to systematically pick off different fleets without actually being at war. Alternatively, on the flip side, pirating would be utterly useless for anyone because their ships would just get killed off since they are hostile with literally everyone. The mechanic would be completely suicidal

Maybe but protection against piracy should completely kick the pirates out of the node for a period of time if the protectors are superior to the pirate fleet. As it is currently, protection against piracy is a joke. "Protection" is figuring out who sent them and revoking their navy privilages by landlocking them.

 

[Dakka]

Maybe but protection against piracy should completely kick the pirates out of the node for a period of time if the protectors are superior to the pirate fleet. As it is currently, protection against piracy is a joke. "Protection" is figuring out who sent them and revoking their navy privilages by landlocking them.

Which again makes piracy pointless. You click “hunt pirates” for all of ten seconds and now they can’t pirate you for x amount of years? Why bother pirating in the first place? Unless of course it is a nation that can’t be overpowered that is pirating you. Then you are screwed and getting your trade murdered by someone you can’t compete with navally.
The way they have it now is probably the best way to handle it with the way mechanics are now.

I would like to see a return of hostile pirate spawns again though. I miss the random pirate ships popping up in the dark corners of the world

 

[Zohtun]

Which again makes piracy pointless. You click “hunt pirates” for all of ten seconds and now they can’t pirate you for x amount of years? Why bother pirating in the first place? Unless of course it is a nation that can’t be overpowered that is pirating you. Then you are screwed and getting your trade murdered by someone you can’t compete with navally.
The way they have it now is probably the best way to handle it with the way mechanics are now.

I would like to see a return of hostile pirate spawns again though. I miss the random pirate ships popping up in the dark corners of the world

Water rebel spawns. Yay even more random resource drains.

 

[Dakka]

Water rebel spawns. Yay even more random resource drains.

Random, but not arbitrary. It gave more reason to have widespread patrols of your waters instead of just conquering land.

However, we are hijacking this thread. If you make a thread for suggesting a better alternative for piracy and privateering, please tag me. I’d be interested in following it.

 

[Howl]

I’m going to give you a serious response:
Because if you could attack pirates without war, it would be easily exploitable to use a massive fleet to systematically pick off different fleets without actually being at war. Alternatively, on the flip side, pirating would be utterly useless for anyone because their ships would just get killed off since they are hostile with literally everyone. The mechanic would be completely suicidal

Yes, obviously piracy could not work that way. The game just does not model the vastness of oceans or provinces and the possibility of Units not wanting to give fight. It would also be extremely annoying chasing armies around and then not be able to fight them.

Back on topic:
I took some provinces from spain and burnt down the forts.
"Why did you not take all their land?"
"They are too big, I can only take this much, otherwise they will not say Ok. Also everyone else gets mad at me."
"Hmm. So you can attack them again and take more now."
"No, I have to wait 15 years"
"Why?"
"We said, you give me that land and I don't attack you for 15 years. Fair?"
"I guess so. What about eveyone else?"
"What about everyone else?"
"Why are they mad at you?"
"I took all that land which was Spain's. So they all say I was mean and they don't like me."
"So attack them."
"Will that make them like me?"
"No. But then they have to shut up."

Wow, he figured out coalition Management. Is it really that obvious and simple?

 

[Dakka]

Yes, obviously piracy could not work that way. The game just does not model the vastness of oceans or provinces and the possibility of Units not wanting to give fight. It would also be extremely annoying chasing armies around and then not be able to fight them.

Back on topic:
I took some provinces from spain and burnt down the forts.
"Why did you not take all their land?"
"They are too big, I can only take this much, otherwise they will not say Ok. Also everyone else gets mad at me."
"Hmm. So you can attack them again and take more now."
"No, I have to wait 15 years"
"Why?"
"We said, you give me that land and I don't attack you for 15 years. Fair?"
"I guess so. What about eveyone else?"
"What about everyone else?"
"Why are they mad at you?"
"I took all that land which was Spain's. So they all say I was mean and they don't like me."
"So attack them."
"Will that make them like me?"
"No. But then they have to shut up."

Wow, he figured out coalition Management. Is it really that obvious and simple?

Clearly the best course of action is to have him play a campaign and you write an AAR of it.

 

[Dominion]

He might enjoy the Rags and Riches achievement considering he wants to burn everything to the ground.

You get Rags and Riches as Emperor, not Horde.
Saves you at least 6 hours irl time.


And can somebody get that kid a Paypal account? I want to give him money for his collegefund.
Not to force him to study, but to watch him burn my former teacher's car.

I'm serious though. Can I send him money?

 

[$ilent_$trider]

I'm loving the topic and I'm sorry for taking it a little sideways but what is the real benefit of actual ZERO forts?
I mean, it's not like I build one fort for every 50 development, specially in the early game, but by the middle-late game, you should be literally drowning in ducats and the only problem that I can see on building forts is the maintenance, so what's the other side of this strategy?

 

[Howl]

Clearly the best course of action is to have him play a campaign and you write an AAR of it.

I have given this alot of thought now, but I think it is not actually practicable. Apart from all the obvious good reasons why this would not work, there is also the educational aspect of "I know I told you not to watch too much TV during the day. But now let's dump the Baby and Play a few hours computer."...
Also his playstyle and advice may be more suited for the 6k (?) dev Monster Ryukyu I am now than the traditional starter country of Holstein. Actually I guess he would love being a horde. They have horses and destroy stuff.

You get Rags and Riches as Emperor, not Horde.
Saves you at least 6 hours irl time.

You have no idea at what speed I am playing. Watching paint dry is an often misused but in this case completely valid analogy. A massive greyish paint spot is slowing moving all over the map.
Seriously, currently I get about one (two in parallel) war done per session. So maybe 2 to 3 years in two hours.

And can somebody get that kid a Paypal account? I want to give him money for his collegefund.
Not to force him to study, but to watch him burn my former teacher's car.

I'm serious though. Can I send him money?

Thanks for the thought, but I will have to decline. If he so chooses he can probably have a university education for (nearly) free. It's one of those countries. He is not getting an allowance yet and again the education thingie. Money does not fall of the internet. Even more so, how would I explain this to my wife? "No, no, no. These Nigerian princes on the internet really want to send us money"

I'm loving the topic and I'm sorry for taking it a little sideways but what is the real benefit of actual ZERO forts?
I mean, it's not like I build one fort for every 50 development, specially in the early game, but by the middle-late game, you should be literally drowning in ducats and the only problem that I can see on building forts is the maintenance, so what's the other side of this strategy?

Ah, gameplay. So I went with not teching Diptech until I could reach tech 23 in one go. That meant being comically short on cash due to a maxed out corruption slider. So keeping any forts whatsoever was never really a consideration. Some games I would keep strategically placed mountain forts. But not this game.
Later, that is now, wars work like this. I place my armies, declare war, move in, trash the place, take as many fort provinces as I can and burn them to the ground. No real need for the burning anymore, but old habits die hard and never change a winning team and so on...
Summary: Early game I cannot afford them, late game I do not need them. Not at all.

By the way, I am greatly enjoying this, but of course it only works as long as he insists on seeing the map and then comes up with funny things to say.
So I don't know how long i can keep it going.

P.s. I wished my computer would stop randomly capitalizing words.

 

[ZeroMoon17]

This has been a most entertaining thread. +1 for the idea of an AAR

 

[Grubnessul]

 

[Zohtun]

Well at the least you could do an AAR which has all his advice and commentary on your game.

10/10 would read again. Especially since, while simplistic, his comments are comically accurate for how to play EU4.

 

[TerrorSnail]

A 5 year old child advisor, truely you are the wise Evil Overlord

 

[Zohtun]

A 5 year old child advisor, truely you are the wise Evil Overlord

Evil Overlord List references!

 

[Howl]

Well at the least you could do an AAR which has all his advice and commentary on your game.

10/10 would read again. Especially since, while simplistic, his comments are comically accurate for how to play EU4.

Maybe I should clarify at this point:
We only look at the map together and discuss what we see. I do not spend hours playing computer games making my child watch. Anyone with children knows why.
"No, give me the mouse!" "No don't go to Spain, I want to see the bones in the desert!" "We lost that fight? This game is stupid!!!! I want ice-cream."
Oh, and then there may be some educational side as well.

Having him actually play the game would not work, I feel. There are too many targeted button presses involved that would need explaining. A Horde or Japan might work a little as then at least not every war would be a best casus belli war. But I would have to tell him to do everything, like recruiting troops and sending diplomats. And then it would not be natural anymore. I will continue to enjoy the time he actually wants to see the map with me.

Unfortunately no commentary update today.