EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

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Trin Tragula

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Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
Last edited:

Wagonlitz

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This looks really great and the new provinces are great. Lithuania finally doesn't look like a turd. Though could still be improved some---same goes for Russia. But a massive improvement. Also great to see new Russian tags.
 

theJalden

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Great to see!
 

krogoth21

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Thanks for the Diary Trin Tragula. These improvements look really neat, will this potentially strenghen the region resulting in a better fighting chance against Ottos ?
 

Grand Historian

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Well, @Zak Preston, this is a good sign that your work might pay off in 1.22.
 

Oahkoah

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This entire time I thought Beloozero was a joke name "Below-zero"
 

Ixal

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Who would ever change the Muscovite ideas for the russian ones?
 

theJalden

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Last edited:

Zak Preston

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@Trin Tragula May I please suggest more provinces to Ruthenian region? They are still huge, ugly and terrible =(

Suggestion (added like 10 hours later) from my later post

Ukrainian (Ruthenian) lands' development in EU4 timeframe
How it was in short version:
  • After the Mongol-Tartar invasion the lands of Kievan Rus’ were in devastation and decline
  • The territories called “Dyke Pole” (or “Wild Field\Wild Steppe”) were overrun by aggressive Tartars that raided deep into Ruthenian lands for slaves and loot.
  • Cossacks’ rebellions, especially National-Liberation war, led by Bohdan Khmelnytsky has taken millions of lives, setting back region’s development significantly
  • Russo-Polish wars didn’t add prosperity and population either
  • With gradual decline of Crimean Khanate the prosperity and population of neighboring lands grew proportionally
  • And only after Crimean Khanate’s lands subjugation by Russian Empire, Wild Steppe has stopped being wild and has experienced a huge population boom.

The main misconception about provinces density, size and shape in Ukrainian lands in EU4 is caused by maps like this:




Indeed, by 1444 the region is depicted more or less correctly (however still ugly, pardon me), but current provinces layout does not cover region’s development in future.

To make region more enjoyable, a lot more provinces (even 1\1\1 if needed) should be added.
Their development may be increased by DHE or decisions when all nearby hordes are annexed.


Provinces that may be added:




With addition of some of listed above provinces the Ukrainian\Ruthenian region should be on par with Hungary, Poland and reworked Muscovy. Provinces’ development is a matter of rebalancing, but in my opinion, Lithuania in it’s current state is a complete peace of garbage and requires some tweaks desperately. Another issue that would be resolved by adding lots of provinces to Ruthenia is extremely dull and boring warfare: in mid-late game a player could line up his stacks from literally Baltic coast to Black Sea coast with full stacks (10x30k) just because of the shape and size of provinces.
With those changes Moldavia and Crimean Khanate would look rather ugly, so they might also enjoy some more provinces.


Sources:
https://www.edmaps.com/html/ukraine.html
 
Last edited:

Swirly Mango

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Isn't it kind of strange that Muscovy is better at fighting than Russia? Why do Russian Ideas have no military bonuses? The Commonwealth is to their south with +Cav Combat, +Discipline, +Morale. I firmly believe that no player will ever take Russian Ideas and no AI with Russian Ideas will ever win against any of their natural rivals.

This is actually an absurdly bad idea set, like an idea set for a tier-3 nation.
 

Kapi96

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hmm, have Russian ideas been nerfed? I don't think there were that powerful in the first place that they needed nerfing were they?
 

pphair

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The Russian ideas actually seem worse than before! Muscovy ones are a nice change though. The other changes seem interesting for tge region as well.

I'm holding out hope that Novgorod aren't an MR anymore. Or that MR is made better in this patch.
 

Smeeved

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The only reason I can think that the Russian ideas have been nerfed so hard is that the government type or culture gives some sort of military bonus in the new dlc.
 

Mortheim

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Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: Institution Spread +20%

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Pomestnoe Vojsko +10% morale. Well, if you want to gather bigger army it gives you morale. Wait, no...This isn't how it works.

Aritllery cost -10%...Yap. Totaly "worth" bonus. Smolensk (which even don't exist during game time) - 20%, one of top European countries - -10%.

Siberian frontier before atrillery? If you are relying on Ivan IV artillery yard - it was before.

Life-long conscription is another questionable idea. It should give manpower, not army size (but who gives a f***). And it doesn't represent how people became free of serfdom through army.

AT of 0.25 is joke - pure joke.

And +1 legitimacy as finisher.

Army of Tsardom and Empire was better than army of Great Duchy. Still, for some reason, it isn't represented - Muscovite ideas are FAR better than Russian. And it is somewhat strange.
Even worse - removing -20% discount on infantry hurts economy much more that anything else. This nerf is not needed in first place.



Yuriev isn't as important as Pereyaslavl-Zalessky.
Zubtsov instead of Staritsa, which was much more important as trade and feudal center.