EU4 - Development Diary - 6th of October 2020

[BlackPrince]

A more realistic numbers of sailors for different types of ships, I was asking for that since sailors were added to the game. ^^

Thank you.

 

[Arilou]

This doesn't fix anything. The only good change here is the raiding change, but raiding shouldn't even be a mechanic past 1500 anyways

Some of the most famous raids were in the 1600s and 1700s. What are you talking about? The peak was in the mid-1600s.

 

[Rashie]

Make upgrading ships cheaper and not 100% cost and add the button to upgrade a fleet to the base game away from Art of War.
Upgrading fleets already feels like a thing you do only if there is no better way to spend money, since it just costs a lot for a relatively useless benefit (since navy being weak isn't much of a drawback). And the more important a navy is to your nation, the more ships it has, so the cost raises and always ends up being too large for the benefit it grants. If the old ships sink, just rebuild new ones is usually my way of thinking. Until it changes I don't think I'll ever like ships in this game.

"upgrading ships" is just an abstraction for removed micromanagement of building new ships, and not clogging up your provinces unit construction tab.

When it's possible to take a ship built in 1450 all the way to a variant from the 1700s, that's not actually the same ship being used in continual service for 300 years. It costing the same as building a new one is appropriate.

 

[Johan]

So combat width is down to 0.5 for galleys. Meaning that you can have 6 galleys against 1 heavy.
AKA in 1444 you have 72 cannons for galleys against 40 cannons of your heavy. This doesn't seem balanced
Or am I forgetting something?

Galleys will be superior to Heavys in the med for the first century.

 

[MateuszNH]

Please try to balance it a little, we don't want always superior England no matter what. It would be nice to make some mechanics to alternative actions if your fleet is weaker to make some damage control

 

[John_DeVries]

I really like the fact that there will be better ship progression: it will make it more worthwhile to upgrade ships.

Any plans to make marines more easily available in Maritime South East Asia, aside from Naval ideas?

 

[holyvigil]

I personally don't like the strong ships in later games. This makes upgrading more important and I think that cost is expensive enough as often as it gets done already.

I'm glad marines are getting a buff and I'm glad sailor maintenance is becoming less important.

 

[Kapi96]

Effectively doubling the power of galleys? Isn't that a bit too much of a buff? Especially for the Ottomans and their 100+ galley fleet :O

 

[Rukawa]

Ottoman buff.

 

[RhoxOS]

Will there be any new country unique naval doctrine or flagship mechanism?

 

[Katsue]

Considering the amount of trade they generate, yes.

Their fleets can also be very helpful in wartime.

 

[Savagepumpkin]

Sounds good to have some changes in the naval aspect!

 

[Luftskip]

Christ that change to raiding and leaders makes me so happy! Thanks for making simple, big and useful changes to the game, really excited for the next patch!

 

[Beagá]

The most crucial question

ETA to this holy baby?

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

You're not supposd to be moving around doomstacks of ships, though. The biggest navies in the world around 1800, England, Spain, France, Denmark-Norway, only had on the order of 50-60 capital ships tops.

Running around with 500 heavies is extremely unrealistic.

Britain's capital ships during the napoleonic wars. 125 in 1793, 135 in 1799, 135 in 1808 and 122 in 1814. The most complete recordings of British capital ships. During those same years Britain's total navy ships consisted of 388 in 1799, 469 in 1808 and 459 in 1814, including everything from frigates to unrated ships, sadly there is no data for the make up of total ships in 1793. This was also supporting a merchant marine of around 19,000-22,000 ships during the period.

Total Ships in Service	First Rates	Second Rates	80 guns	74 guns	74 guns (Large)	64 Guns	50 Guns
1793	5	16	1	58	3	30	12
1794
1795
1796	6	16	5	56	8
1797						30	12
1799	6	17	7	49	20	26	10
1801	6	16	8	50	20	27	10
1804						20	10
1805	7	14	6	43	24
1808	6	11	7	51	30	21	9
1810						12	7
1811	7	12	7	62	28	9
1812							5
1814	7	8	5	67	30	1	4

 

[Shwartz99]

I like the naval changes, they are always welcomed!

Would you be wiling to create a mechanic to add small amount of mercantilism yearly for having light ships as a percentage of your naval force limit protecting trade, similar to army drilling + army professionalism? ie. a fleet consisting of full force limit protecting trade for 1 year makes the country gain 1 mercantilism

This, imo, would be a nice addition to mercantilism changers and would make light ships even more useful

 

[Muelleri]

How about giving combat ability bonus to Marines by Policy? +10% penalty still makes marine less attractive.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Britain's capital ships during the napoleonic wars. 125 in 1793, 135 in 1799, 135 in 1808 and 122 in 1814. The most complete recordings of British capital ships. During those same years Britain's total navy ships consisted of 388 in 1799, 469 in 1808 and 459 in 1814, including everything from frigates to unrated ships, sadly there is no data for the make up of total ships in 1793. This was also supporting a merchant marine of around 19,000-22,000 ships during the period.

Were all of those 135 capital ships, though? I.e. ships which would be considered heavies in game.

In any case it shows that I was correct in my point about 500 heavies doomstacks not being realistic, even if my numbers were a bit off as I were doing them from memory.

 

[Lord Romanus II]

A few additional questions:
1. Any changes to naval doctrines?
2. Will missions be updated to reflect this?
3. Will there be any updates to how combat is calculated? (Damage modifiers and the like)
4. Will we get a new naval battle interface?
5. Will naval morale be less important than it is currently?

 

[gazr23]

You're not supposd to be moving around doomstacks of ships, though. The biggest navies in the world around 1800, England, Spain, France, Denmark-Norway, only had on the order of 50-60 capital ships tops.

Running around with 500 heavies is extremely unrealistic.

Agree that running around with 500 ships of the line late game is unrealistic.

Lata 15th and early 16th Century naval battles were typically fought with a couple of hundred ships on both sides, but the ships were largely armed merchantmen rather that pure warships. The pure battleship was developed during the reign of Charles I of England. Armed merchantmen were phased out of the Royal Navy during the reign of Charles II, leaving the Dutch, who at that time were the pre-eminent naval power with little choice but to make the same change. At that time the French and Spanish didn't have Atlantic navy's to speak of, so they built their battle-fleets from scratch.

Great Britain had between 110-160 ships of the line in commission throughout the 18th Century but apart from France at the end of the reign of Louis XIV, none of the other great powers had more than 70-80 battleships at any one time. At its largest in 1810, the Royal Navy had 152 battleships and 183 cruisers in commission (source: NAM Rodger "Command of the Ocean" - Appendix 2).

I actually think that this change should be balanced. Johan said that the number of sailors per production point has doubled. so if you want to build a large end-game navy you need to invest in production development over a prolonged period of time.

I also like the idea of naval power mattering as much as your army power when it comes to the Liberty Desire of your overseas subjects as in real history, naval power was probably more important than army power in maintaining a colonial empire. However, it may be worthwhile checking whether the criteria for hegemony are still equally difficult given the naval balance changes.