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EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of July 2019

Hello and welcome to this week’s dev diary. This will be the last content-led dev diary for a little while – from next week onwards, you can expect to be hearing about mechanical changes in the upcoming expansion. For now, though, I will be talking about Savoy. Also, we have a new trade node to show off, so I’ll first of all hand you over to @Ofaloaf to talk you through that.

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Hey all, @Ofaloaf here with another tidbit of mapwork we've been working on. With all the new provinces added to Italy and France, the Genoa trade node was getting rather large compared to its neighbors. Along with the Pest node (which we have since added an additional route to from Crimea), we decided it was time to split up the Genoa node.

Here's what Genoa used to look like:

upload_2019-7-29_16-40-21.png


That's a pretty considerable chunk of the Western Mediterranean! Even the Venice node doesn't control the whole Adriatic. It was necessary to carve something out of Genoa's trade node. So, since Genoa proper is in Italy, the best option seemed to be to peel away the westernmost provinces. This inclined us to pick to some province in Aragon. Valencia and Barcelona seemed to be the best candidates there, and of the two we ended up going for Valencia, as it was a fine commercial port at the time and it's slightly further away from Genoa on the map.

So the new setup has ended up like so:

upload_2019-7-29_16-41-2.png


Valenica interrupts the flow of trade from Sevilla to Genoa. If you still want trade to flow to Genoa (and that node is now located actually next to Genoa now!), you can still force trade to keep flowing through Valencia through the judicious use of merchants and trade fleets, but you can just try to hold onto all the trade you can at Valencia as well. This change should help make trade in the Mediterranean a little more challenging, and still offer more opportunities for more countries to get a slice of the action.

That's it from me, back to @Caligula Caesar for some Savoy-specific content!

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To recap on their starting position and their national significance, they are situated between France and Italy with lands in both countries. During the first half of EU4, they were basically fought over by France and the Emperor as both tried to extend their power in Italy. Having successfully managed to avoid being absorbed into either, in the 18th century they were then ceded Sicily (along with the title of King) for their participation in the War of the Spanish Succession. A couple of years later, however, the Emperor forced them to swap Sicily for Sardinia, thus forming the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont. Still a relatively weak power compared to its neighbours, soon after the conclusion of EU4 it would emerge as the strongest independent Italian nation (almost by default, since Austria controlled much of the rest of Italy either directly or through puppet states) and so be the focus for the Italian unification movement. By playing their cards well, they were able to capitalise on the situation and form a united Italy, though they had to give up their French lands and Nice to achieve this.

This situation opens up several paths for Savoyard missions. Firstly, there’s the historical path: Early missions focused on surviving and being good at diplomacy, some good economic missions and a path for Italian conquest. However, although EU4’s Savoy remains Piedmontese culture, it felt wrong not to give Savoy missions to do in France. Hence, Savoy has also been given a full tree helping them become King of France.

upload_2019-7-29_16-41-29.png


One of the first missions Savoy might look to complete is an economic one: Prosper in Piedmont. It is achieved by adding three development to Turin (which is coincidentally also the reward for annexing Saluzzo and Montferrat) and getting 120 total development, plus the Renaissance. Doing this will give you an event that will let you either gain even more development in Torino or let you convert to French culture and gain development in French Savoy instead. The AI will choose what to do based on how it is doing in France and Italy.

upload_2019-7-29_16-42-39.png

Occitan starts out as an accepted culture for Savoy, so this switches the cultures around.

Following on from that mission, there are several more economic missions – after all, it was partly Piedmont’s economic strength that led to its ability to unite Italy. Glory to Ciamberi (<capital name> - it changes based on the last mission) requires six buildings to be built in your capital and it to have 30 development. This is quite a lot for mountainous provinces, but the reward is good too – the capital will become a center of trade. Finally, Powerhouse of the North (renamed Powerhouse of the South if you go French) requires the steep task of 100 development in your capital’s area, along with several other economic conditions – but if you get it, you will get +5% admin efficiency and +5% goods produced for the rest of the game.

Another bonus Savoy can get from the same branch of the mission tree, this time via being a very good Christian, is being able to found the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus.

upload_2019-7-29_16-42-52.png


In terms of conquests, Savoy is well-covered in Italy with a set of missions that basically track their progress towards Italian unification. Once they have images, they may or may not end up with some blatant references to the Risorgimento. On the other side of the Alps, there’s a branch to go east and one to go north. Going north will lead you to clash with Switzerland (Monter l’Estcalade – a reference to an attempt by the Savoyards to take Geneva by surprise… Geneva was historically not an easy vassal for Savoy, something we are keen to represent ingame). You will then have the chance to take Burgundy. On the other hand, going west will have you first clash with Provence and then, if you dare, with France. Once you dominate southern France, you will gain claims on Ile de France. You then need but seize Paris and you will be able to claim the French throne via a personal union CB.

The final branch of Savoy’s mission trees focuses on diplomacy and self-defence. The Savoyards after all had to be very good at both to survive. The first two of these missions require you to first make a strong ally, then make sure you are covered no matter the situation by getting two good friends who happen to be rivalled to each other. This having been done, Savoy will be tasked with having four up-to-date forts in Alpine areas; doing this will give the reward of said forts being upgraded. Finally, the best way to ensure Savoy’s safety is to have a bigger army than any neighbour; doing this will give a useful +10% morale and +1 army tradition for the next 30 years.

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We didn’t just add missions to Savoy – we have also added two small early-game events (we’re also open to suggestions for more!). The first of these regards the Duke’s father, who resigned his position as Duke to become Antipope Felix. You get the choice on whether to support your father, which gives a healthy military boost in return for somewhat burning your bridges with the Pope.

upload_2019-7-29_16-43-6.png


The second new event concerns Cyprus. Historically, the Savoyard rulers from Charles II in the 1480s right down to Umberto II, the last King of Italy, would claim the Kingdom of Cyprus (and Jerusalem and Armenia) – at least in their titles. This was based mainly on the descent from one of the last Christian Princesses of Cyprus. Fortunately for us, the starting Savoyard ruler is married to a Cypriot, which means that, should a non-Christian nation annex Cyprus, this may happen:

upload_2019-7-29_17-0-42.png


Edit: Almost forgot to show this, but we've also added some new ideas for Sardinia-Piedmont, to make it a more interesting nation to form:

SPI_ideas = {
start = {
idea_cost = -0.1
improve_relation_modifier = 0.25
}

bonus = {
global_tax_modifier = 0.15
}

trigger = {
tag = SPI
}
free = yes #will be added at load.

spi_flexibility = {
diplomatic_upkeep = 1
}
spi_defensive_prowess = {
defensiveness = 0.25
}
the_shroud_of_turin = {
papal_influence = 1
prestige = 0.5
}
spi_royal_sardinian_army = {
discipline = 0.03
global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
}
spi_centralized_state = {
development_cost = -0.05
core_creation = -0.1
}
spi_piedmontese_manufacturing = {
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
}
spi_risorgimento = {
ae_impact = -0.1
}
}

SPI_ideas:0 "Sardinian-Piedmontese Ideas"
SPI_ideas_start:0 "Sardinian-Piedmontese Traditions"
SPI_ideas_bonus:0 "Sardinian-Piedmontese Ambition"
spi_defensive_prowess:0 "Defensive Prowess"
spi_defensive_prowess_desc:0 "From the French in Savoy and Piedmont to the Spanish in Sardinia, our lands have long been tempting targets for our neighbors' expansionist ideals. In protecting our sovereignty through the years, we have honed our fortification techniques and mastered the art of defending a fortress."
spi_flexibility:0 "Diplomatic Flexibility"
spi_flexibility_desc:0 "Wedged in between stronger powers and under constant threat of falling too far under their influence, we have been forced to practice nimble diplomacy - some would say shameless opportunism - in order to safeguard our independence and find some new opening to advance our state. Though distasteful in the eyes of traditionalists, opportunism has its upsides."
spi_royal_sardinian_army:0 "Royal Sardinian Army"
spi_royal_sardinian_army_desc:0 "The golden age of mercenaries has passed, and our army shall keep with the times. By implementing reforms to professionalize it, we can establish a standing army capable of projecting our power abroad in Italy and Europe as a whole."
spi_centralized_state:0 "Centralized State"
spi_centralized_state_desc:0 "By imitating the means and methods of the great powers of Europe in our own territories, we can forge Sardinia-Piedmont into powerhouse capable of dominating Italy and standing our ground on the European stage."
the_shroud_of_turin:0 "The Shroud of Turin"
the_shroud_of_turin_desc:0 "The burial shroud of Christ himself was found in our lands in the year 1390 and since that time has been the prized artifact of the House of Savoy. Put the Shroud of Turin on display and watch the pilgrims flock to Piedmont, bringing their wealth with them."
spi_piedmontese_manufacturing:0 "Piedmontese Manufacturing"
spi_piedmontese_manufacturing_desc:0 "Situated on the key trade route between Venice and France, there are many markets on which to sell our produce. By adopting the latest methods pioneered elsewhere, we can increase our production and bring plentiful riches to our lands."
spi_risorgimento:0 "The Risorgimento"
spi_risorgimento_desc:0 "Italy has not been united since the fall of Rome, but the idea of a united Italy has never died. Now, as the dream enjoys a resurgence, we have emerged as one of the main standard bearers of the Italian people's hopes and dreams."

That's all for today! Next week, as mentioned, we'll finally start telling you about the changes to game mechanics we are in the process of implementing. Until then, have a great week!
 
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Malaysia, Singapore, The Hanseatic League (even more so if you consider each city separately), The neatherlands and so on. While some of these did expand their expansion was usually the result of trade dominance not the other way around.

I won't pretend to know anything about Malaya (although they have a fair chunk of CoT in their area). Singapore is a city state, I won't pretend I know anything more either. The Hanseatic League was a network of independent city states, correct? Therefore they should not be restricted at all by that rule since they have independent merchants, areas, etc.
The Netherlands had thriving colonial activity, which isn't exactly 'tall' lmao. In that sense, they are very favourably represented already, with the possibility to upgrade their CoT in TC lands as well.

So all in all it feels like your grief would only be reasonable in the case of Malaya/Singapore - assuming there is something to dig here. Could you expand and/or give other examples?
 
I won't pretend to know anything about Malaya (although they have a fair chunk of CoT in their area). Singapore is a city state, I won't pretend I know anything more either. The Hanseatic League was a network of independent city states, correct? Therefore they should not be restricted at all by that rule since they have independent merchants, areas, etc.
The Netherlands had thriving colonial activity, which isn't exactly 'tall' lmao. In that sense, they are very favourably represented already, with the possibility to upgrade their CoT in TC lands as well.

So all in all it feels like your grief would only be reasonable in the case of Malaya/Singapore - assuming there is something to dig here. Could you expand and/or give other examples?
On the contrary I would say it is, they never ever tried to expand their homeland territory despite huge wealth and even their "colonial" empire was in the eu4 timeframe indirect rule, and also through their east indian trading company.
And I don't really know what you meant with the hanseatic cities not counting? You can't just ignore them because they go against the point you're trying to make.


The problem with that is that if you allow a country to just sit there, develop its provinces, and get more and more and more influence over trade / trade income, you essentially break the balance. You would have a bunch of small countries in Europe with thousands of ducats and nothing to spend them on.
Then perhaps a new paradigm for balance is needed.
 
I won't pretend to know anything about Malaya (although they have a fair chunk of CoT in their area). Singapore is a city state, I won't pretend I know anything more either. The Hanseatic League was a network of independent city states, correct? Therefore they should not be restricted at all by that rule since they have independent merchants, areas, etc.
The Netherlands had thriving colonial activity, which isn't exactly 'tall' lmao. In that sense, they are very favourably represented already, with the possibility to upgrade their CoT in TC lands as well.

So all in all it feels like your grief would only be reasonable in the case of Malaya/Singapore - assuming there is something to dig here. Could you expand and/or give other examples?

I will disagree with you on the Netherlands as the majority of their trade profit wasn't gained in the colonies but by trade in Europe (and especially the Baltic), which would make them a tall nation (for some time they had more merchant ships than the rest of Europe combined, which in game is just not possible with only a few coastal provinces).
 
What I'm saying about the hanseatic league is that OPMs have no restrictions related to their upgrading of CoTs. Therefore I don't see how they're being restricted.
Ragusa falls into that category as well, Genoa doesn't have multiple CoT in their starting area. I'm pretty sure it's not the case for Venezia either [edit: can't remember if there's a secondary CoT in the Venezia proper area]. > and there's not even on the map for a part of the campaign where world ports could be relevant.

I think for Netherlands, the distinction of TC empire is moot: TC lands are represented as land of the nation, not of a subject, so claiming they didn't own that dev would be (in eu4) wrong, and saying that they are tall (in eu4) is likewise a misconception.

I will disagree with you on the Netherlands as the majority of their trade profit wasn't gained in the colonies but by trade in Europe (and especially the Baltic), which would make them a tall nation (for some time they had more merchant ships than the rest of Europe combined, which in game is just not possible with only a few coastal provinces).

I take that point.
But I don't think it's quite enough for a rework of CoTs, we're talking about just one nation so far (I think?), who is also generously filled with TCs CoT so I think it's fair to say they're not even being wronged tradewise (quite the contrary).
 
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Shouldn't the Valencia trade node be a bit more developed? I mean, it only has 3 centers of trade and an estuary, all of them in Aragonese territory. I suppose that, by principle, there must be at least one province with some trading influence controlled by a 2nd party in 1444. You can't just create a whole nearly ending trade node in 99% possession of a sole country. At least a trade center in southern France would mitigate the prospective Aragonese monopoly.
 
What I'm saying about the hanseatic league is that OPMs have no restrictions related to their upgrading of CoTs. Therefore I don't see how they're being restricted.
Ragusa falls into that category as well, Genoa doesn't have multiple CoT in their starting area. I'm pretty sure it's not the case for Venezia either [edit: can't remember if there's a secondary CoT in the Venezia proper area]. > and there's not even on the map for a part of the campaign where world ports could be relevant.

I think for Netherlands, the distinction of TC empire is moot: TC lands are represented as land of the nation, not of a subject, so claiming they didn't own that dev would be (in eu4) wrong, and saying that they are tall (in eu4) is likewise a misconception.



I take that point.
But I don't think it's quite enough for a rework of CoTs, we're talking about just one nation so far (I think?), who is also generously filled with TCs CoT so I think it's fair to say they're not even being wronged tradewise (quite the contrary).
This is about playing tall being viable in general not a specific issue.
What we see in many countries in this era is countries that gain power and influence by playing tall and then leverage that influence into going wider, it's what we see in Prussia, the British, and the Netherlands. There are of course also very successful countries who go wide, Russia and France are prime examples.
 
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I'm not sure that the devs are even aware that creating the Valencia trade node is an enormous buff for Spain, and that worries me.
 
One little thing I just noticed: according to the Wiki, the English Channel trade node (which is also an end node), has 50 provinces and 12 key provinces; also the Nippon trade node has 67 provinces; the Coromandel trade node has 54 provinces and 14 key provinces. And a long etc. Yet you have to balkanize the Genoa trade node, which only had 46 provinces. You should either divide the English Channel end node as well, or withdraw this decision.
 
One little thing I just noticed: according to the Wiki, the English Channel trade node (which is also an end node), has 50 provinces and 12 key provinces; also the Nippon trade node has 67 provinces; the Coromandel trade node has 54 provinces and 14 key provinces. And a long etc. Yet you have to balkanize the Genoa trade node, which only had 46 provinces. You should either divide the English Channel end node as well, or withdraw this decision.
So since england has way to many provinces they should also get two trade nodes?
 
They already have two, it's just the North Sea sucks so it's often overlooked. I'm still confused on how Ireland is in the same trade node as Northern Norway.

Sure, England has two provinces in the North Sea.

As for Ireland it probably comes down to, what else do you do with it?

As to breaking up the English Channel, how do you do that? I don’t know the history side but looking at the gameplay side, you don’t want to split it down the Channel and give England its own node (my main issue with a Valencia node is that there needs to be a Centre of Trade outside Iberia).

Can you make one with Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany or something like that? Move Normandy and possibly Picardy to Champaign making the English Channel England and the Low Countries. Then rejigger Bordeaux, Chamapaign, Valencia, and Genoa as necessary to balance things out.
 
Sure, England has two provinces in the North Sea.

England STARTS with two provinces, any smart England player would secure Scotland and Ireland, giving them the other 24 provinces, sometimes 22 depending on if Scotland gets Orkney and Shetland.

As to breaking up the English Channel, how do you do that? I don’t know the history side but looking at the gameplay side, you don’t want to split it down the Channel and give England its own node (my main issue with a Valencia node is that there needs to be a Centre of Trade outside Iberia).

While I understand the issues with the English Channel, I just don't see a valid excuse to break it up, besides give Northern England to the North Sea which I actually support this. All the major trade ports are all huddled up together along the coast and wouldn't work in the other nodes. And just separating England from a trade node with mainland Europe would give England a 100% control over a node, most likely an end node still, and make them more isolationist and have less incentive to secure parts of the mainland. (Valencia does need at least one or two areas outside of the peninsula to avoid Spain having 100% control of the node, it's at least not an end node)

Can you make one with Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany or something like that? Move Normandy and possibly Picardy to Champaign making the English Channel England and the Low Countries.

Ireland is in such a tricky spot for node placement, personally I say the North Sea is probably the best option. Wales I'd keep in the Channel alongside the rest of Southern England, Cornwall is just one province so it can't be separate node and it's on the south coast so Channel works still. Brittany in Bordeaux still works, but I'd like to see the results of placing it in the Channel, that way England has more incentive to rather annex them , vassalize them or ally them and the same for France over control of trade. The province of Finnistere is also on the edge of the Channel so geographically it works but I will admit the major city, Brest, is located on the west coast of France which is closer to Bordeaux. Normandy and Picardy should stay in the Channel, as mentioned earlier it creates struggles between France and England, especially early game where early war is crucial for the survival of mainland England. Flanders, Holland and Netherlands areas should stay in the Channel too, moving Frisia to the Lubeck node, combined with removing Northern England from the Channel, could be the little nerf that makes the Channel a bit more balanced. I am of the opinion that some things are suppose to be a bit unbalanced, since not everything is balanced in the real world, and the Channel is such a vital point of trade, especially at this point, and should be one of the stronger nodes. Just remove the areas that are too far and don't make sense and maybe add Brittany to the Channel node if you want to wrestle trade power away from England.
 
They already have two, it's just the North Sea sucks so it's often overlooked. I'm still confused on how Ireland is in the same trade node as Northern Norway.
Actually it makes some sense, traders and fishermen ranger a lot further than most people would suspect.
England STARTS with two provinces, any smart England player would secure Scotland and Ireland, giving them the other 24 provinces, sometimes 22 depending on if Scotland gets Orkney and Shetland.



While I understand the issues with the English Channel, I just don't see a valid excuse to break it up, besides give Northern England to the North Sea which I actually support this. All the major trade ports are all huddled up together along the coast and wouldn't work in the other nodes. And just separating England from a trade node with mainland Europe would give England a 100% control over a node, most likely an end node still, and make them more isolationist and have less incentive to secure parts of the mainland. (Valencia does need at least one or two areas outside of the peninsula to avoid Spain having 100% control of the node, it's at least not an end node)



Ireland is in such a tricky spot for node placement, personally I say the North Sea is probably the best option. Wales I'd keep in the Channel alongside the rest of Southern England, Cornwall is just one province so it can't be separate node and it's on the south coast so Channel works still. Brittany in Bordeaux still works, but I'd like to see the results of placing it in the Channel, that way England has more incentive to rather annex them , vassalize them or ally them and the same for France over control of trade. The province of Finnistere is also on the edge of the Channel so geographically it works but I will admit the major city, Brest, is located on the west coast of France which is closer to Bordeaux. Normandy and Picardy should stay in the Channel, as mentioned earlier it creates struggles between France and England, especially early game where early war is crucial for the survival of mainland England. Flanders, Holland and Netherlands areas should stay in the Channel too, moving Frisia to the Lubeck node, combined with removing Northern England from the Channel, could be the little nerf that makes the Channel a bit more balanced. I am of the opinion that some things are suppose to be a bit unbalanced, since not everything is balanced in the real world, and the Channel is such a vital point of trade, especially at this point, and should be one of the stronger nodes. Just remove the areas that are too far and don't make sense and maybe add Brittany to the Channel node if you want to wrestle trade power away from England.
The problem is not England becoming powerful but them starting way more powerful than they should.
 
The problem is not England becoming powerful but them starting way more powerful than they should.

Then remove Northern England from Channel and add to North Sea and add Brittany to Channel which increases the value of North Sea but should keep the Channel at around the same value but the power isn't in England's hands to begin with. I get that Bordeaux is probably better for Brittany but I don't know what else to do to weaken England's trade power at the start. I'm not interested in seeing the Channel node butchered into two or three different nodes.
 
I know this is an older development diary but, I sincerely hope that with more focus being put on Savoy, that in the new expansion, the player can follow the general 'historical path' of the House of Savoy, and remain part of the Holy Roman Empire when creating Sardinia-Piedmont rather than automatically leaving.
 
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