EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of April 2019

EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of April 2019

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Blobhemian

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In a concise but disappointing response, we do not have this planned for the upcoming expansion/
This is very sad to hear. Dynastic politics, aims, personal unions and inheritance played THE crucial role in the history of Europe up until the late 18th century. I understand that you want to distinguish the game from CK2, but early modern period was absolutely nothing like 19th or 20th centuries. Over half of the game's timeline falls before the peace of Westphalia, which is now viewed as the starting point for a modern conception of statehood, sovereignity and international relations.

Yet the dynastic matters in EU4 are completely sidelined and using very unclear mechanisms that do not even try to imitate reality. The guide to personal unions on this very forum shows how incomprehensible the system is for many players, even the experienced ones. We don't need to have the CK2 dynastic claim system and succession rules pasted over to EU4. We don't even need dynastic trees. But we need some better UI and visible rules for PUs and most of all, dynastic flavour. Succession wars were the most impactful and large-scale conflict in European history, so why is there so little focus on personal unions it in the game apart from the very few predetermined historical ones?

Making a large European expansion and ignoring that what made the whole panregion unique and distinct from the rest of the world is beyond my understanding, especially considering how dated the existing mechanics are. Please make sure to do think twice about this decision.
 

Desiata

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There are several rebel types considering religion, but making them as new possible religion, as anglicanism was, would I think really bring even more flavour + balance things out, if u plan to give christianity some buffs (Hussites mainly, since they reformed military tacticts of almost whole Europe + technology) Pope would definitely deserve some kind of reforms as are in HRE too. I always play as christian in europe, since u will get lots of land and that means 7 cardinals for whole time which can be in time changed to manpower recovery speed, national taxes + mainly stability, which is super good, compared to protestant or reformed, if u wanna do worldconquest. Sometimes getting curia controller is cherry on the cake ...

Main thing tho is that HRE need some more variations in term of both HRE and papal curia. Imperial circles as were proposed by florryworry since patch 1.19 and his worldconquest as ottomans 93% CCR would greatly enhance HRE experience and change lots of, how reformation could play out too (one circle will stay catholic, the next one will be reformed, another protestant, you get the idea ... Hell, if for example bohemia get super strong, become emperor and beat austria, some circle would try to ally with ottomans and with their help beat bohemia ... These kind of big wars, where are several smaller nations + 1 or 2 major nations would greatly enhance Eu4. ANother thing is protestants and reformed are considered in religious wars almost as the same, but would be interresting if there was some kind of religious wars between protestant and reformed and catholic as a third side. Spawning Hussite rebels in eastern imperial circle would bring problems with unrest and keeping your nation together, while battling it out vs other heretics

Coalitions could be kind of changed too. On veryhard u see ottomans and muscovy blob insane amounts of lands, while there is never a coalition against them. Tributaries if big in number and development, could be enhanced to seek independence together from Ming or some horde too, but mainly Ming. Ming is never a blobby one + never experiences Mingplosion on higher diffculty, which is in the end less interresting to play on higher difficulty than on normal.
 

John the John

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I think it would be useful to enable Catholics to sabotage each other to the Curia system. Mostly it seems to be about getting the papacy to support you rather than allowing you to strike directly at your rivals within the Church.
Well, the question is how historically accurate devs want it to be. Until the 20th century there couldn't be more than 70 cardinals. So the game could start with 50 cardinals and 70 would be maximum. After that new cardinal would be chosen after death of existing cardinal. Your goal would be to convince as many cardinals as possible to vote for your cardinal. It could work similarly to HRE elections. Of course the question is if it's a good idea to have so many cardinals in the game. It would work with smaller number too, of course.
 

Prince Ire

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I think it would be useful to enable Catholics to sabotage each other to the Curia system. Mostly it seems to be about getting the papacy to support you rather than allowing you to strike directly at your rivals within the Church.

Similarly, there aren't that many benefits to being Catholic if you are not in Europe due to how the Curia works. It might be a good idea to allow other states, such as Otomo or Kongo compete for the College as well (although perhaps with a few maluses?).
I'd say that "primitive" states and colonies should still be disqualified from the curia, but otherwise it shouldn't be limited to Europe. So i.e. a Catholic Japan or Ming, or a Catholic Kongo that adopts enough institutions should have access to the curia, but not Kongo immediately after accepting Portuguese missionaries or colonial nations.
 

EastonAugustus

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We need to have more interaction between Emperor, Italy, and the Pope. The Italian wars never seem to occur. Also you probably already have heard that the Shadow Kingdom event isn't very historical. Also please fix the regnal numbers for Poland, Hungary, and England. Please make it wear you need to take expansion or exploration ideas to get charter companies.
 

Dakka

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Extracted from my “Disappointimg In-Game Accomplishments” thread in my signature:
Forming the HRE
"Never Form Greyskin" is advice that has long annoyed me. This stems from the fact that reforming the HRE is significantly weaker and less desirable than simply maintaining the immensely powerful "Revoke the Privilegia" decision. Not only does uniting the HRE hurt you militarily from the loss of your vassal swarm and a far lower force limit, it also hurts you by stripping every other bonus acquired from the various reforms.
To put it into perspective, upon reforming into the HRE tag, you lose:
-5% construction cost
-5% development cost
+1 Diplomat
+1 Diplomatic Reputation
+0.5% yearly legitimacy
-10% core creation cost
+20% yearly tax income
+0.5% yearly prestige
The strongest vassal swarm in the game
While you do get a permanent modifier called "Rome Reborn", which gives you +1 yearly prestige and +5% national tax modifier, I truly don't believe this is enough to justify forming the Holy Roman Empire.
Therefore, my suggestion in this regard is twofold:
1. The "Rome Reborn" modifier should include the other Emperor reform bonuses as well, similar to how the Nahuatl religion gets its various bonuses from reforming its religion. I think the HRE is difficult enough to form to warrant keeping these bonuses upon uniting the tag.
2. HRE Ideas. As a centralized Holy Roman Empire is a bit closer to the "fantasy" spectrum in the game, it allows the developers to get a bit more creative with their National Idea set. My reasoning is that if the Roman Empire gets a good idea set, why shouldn't the Reich?

I feel that these two changes would add a bit more incentive to actually clicking "Renovatio Imperii" and, while not being overtly better than keeping the vassal swarm, could at least make it somewhat more of a choice rather than a mistake. Furthermore, I think the HRE would be a great nation to create a unique government reform/type for, such as increased state count, faster autonomy reduction, or other bonus to rule its new, vast swathes of territory.
 

Desiata

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IF Hre gets a big rework dont forget about modifiers for electors pls. Electors will always vote for themselves if over 200 development (strategic interrest). In my actual game as France I got 3 electors on my side, other 3 vote for austria. Bohemia was 2 years ago voting for me too, but they conquered 2 provinces, which gave them 41 development, so now they are at 214 development and are voting for themselves, so now I need to deal with bohemia too ...
 

Yevardian

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In one game I was playing recently, the HRE dismantled all on its own because there was no eligible Catholic Emperor... I'm excited to see changes to such an important part of the world in this time period!
A lot of this would probably be because the AI is completely unable to handle the new religion changes, so the Reformation just spreads unopposed until the conversion centres eventually bleed out.
 

Tue_p3

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Maybe do something with the cardinals? You can't actually see a cardinal in a province while it's a hidden tracker. I remember during my first plays where I could find where my cardinals lived and how it affected my provinces.
Maybe link cardinals to the religious estate.
The appointments of cardinals is also a bit random. Maybe make an option that you can appoint a city who makes a bid for a cardinal seat, which changes improve if you have a cathedral or something like that. ( Like real world cities competing for the world championship)
 

Yevardian

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As for suggestions, can we see a Montenegro event, and some general re-working of Venetian AI in that area?

Also a reworking on the "Fall of Hungary" event, which ingame almost never triggers because Hungary is almost always an Austrian Vassal by the time the Ottomans declare on them. Transylvania is one of those extremely rare tags that only occur if the player force-releases it.

The entire Yugoslav region almost invariably gets eaten by Hungary or Venice within a few decades, becomes a rebel factory or incites a war between Hungary-Venice, and then both get beaten to a pulp by Ottomans.

I'd like to see some Sunni conversion events for Albania and Bosnia too.
 

Piotrzeci

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The unlawful territory mechanic seems very weird. The AI will expand just to accept the Emperor's demand or you can have them give land back to your vassal. It's really silly when you call an ally on promise of land, give it to them and then they decide to just give it back.

Forbid releasing the Pope from Rome or accepting unlawful territory by subject nations.

More engaging Catholicism sounds kinda nice, but it's not like nations choose to become Protestants/Reformed. They don't abandon corrupted church for their own benefits, but are broken by waves of rebels from unconvertable provinces. Reformation centers just aren't a mechanic it can be built on and counter reformation is still a bad choice as the problem usually is religious zeal and not lack of missionaries.

Fix AI converting provinces
Give colonial nations +2 Tolerance of heathens and heretics instead of ignoring religious minuses.
I am quite unsatisfied with Nahuatl Mexico accepting local cultures.

Maybe create a HRE reform system like the government one, but more impactful.
And I wanna see a reform of New World HRE encouraging a colonial empire.
 
Last edited:

John the John

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And could you make the Kingdom of God on Earth that can be formed by the papal states more interesting and harder to form? Right now there isn't really a reason for the player to form it. Also, it doesn't make sense that curia stops existing, after forming it. The papal states couldn't just become a hereditary monarchy, that would create a giant schism. The church and other catholic countries wouldn't even allow it to happen without a war. Maybe Kingdom of God could be formed after finishing the reform mechanic I mentioned earlier so the country would just become permanent curia controller?
 
Last edited:

Bearjuden

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If you mean Game Options akin to CK2, then I'm going to have to disappoint you, as that is not in our plans.
...you ever gonna' tell us why? Since this is just about the closest you're going to get to an objectively abysmally wrong decision, I'd love to at least know what twisted reasoning got you here. Otherwise, just pony up and do it. It's crazy that you're this opposed, and doesn't make me hopeful for the future that you can turn this sinking ship around.

But hey, there's going to be 4k support so I guess it's all okay /s

Edit: screwed up the quote formatting.
 
Last edited:

Nick1120

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Please please please, make unlawful territory an automatic modifier, instead of having AI just hand the land back. Why would anyone spend time, money, and manpower to take a province, just to immediately give it back when the war is over? Haven't played in the HRE in forever because it makes no sense. Even worse when it's your vassal that politely hands back land you fought for and assigned to them. I know I can just string together wars, but it feels dumb to exploit like that when the solution seems so simple.
 

Mexbuild

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In my opinion, the HRE should be not so railroaded with it's reform system.

I would like to see a HRE where you can go the (historical) clerical-federal way (+inheritances to grow) but also an nationalist-centralist way like France it did. Why not offer the player a path where he can declare himself king/emperor of Germany and then you unite/build up Germany by force and diplomacy?

With more imperial power you could pass new imperial laws like in CK2. For example that the emperor inherits a country if a dynasty dies out. You also could split imperial power also into clerical power. With more clerical power you can get more control on theocracies and more tax income instead of the Pope. With more imperial power you gain more soldiers and easier claims to enlarge your empire. If you have grown enough you can form Germany to activate the national-path instead of the classic reform-path. This would lead more to a Germany which the Staufers wanted to achieve but just failed several times.

Playing the HRE is becoming more and more boring because you only can do the reforms or just conquer until you can form Germany by decision.
 

Jkst9

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While we don't have the exact details, we see this as something that should be split: where there is a clear path for reform in the HRE, either towards decentralized power or all land under one ruler, so that players don't feel the need to purposefully hold back on completing the HRE reform path.
With that wouldn't it be good to have two paths one that slowly unites the HRE based of the current system but without the vassal swarm and one that brings the princes under indirect control but the final reform still makes you the HRE
 

DominusNovus

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As for Catholicism, I’d like to suggest a more in-depth implementation of reform desire. In Catholicism, the stance is that the Church is always supposed to be in a state of constant reform, hence why there are Ecumenical Councils every century or two.

Here is my proposal, thought of on the fly: have a global reform stat (good) and a national reform stat (bad). Global Reform desire, an accumulation of all the National Reform desire, ticking up is what allows the Church to reform and address concerns by calling an Ecumenical Council (which could be as simple a ‘call a council, click a button for a bonus’). National Reform desire is what fuels Global Reform, so you need some. But if any one nation’s reform desire is too much higher than the global reform desire (or just too high in general), then a Reformation can break out there.
 

Ursul

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What if Switzerland wish to abandon the HRE?
What if the Low Lands wanted to revolt against the Emperor? Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Please also have a look at free cities. They are meant to be under imperial protection, but my experience as the emperor was that they kept being killed and whenever I forced their release, it would come back as duchy that does not want to be a free city. And since we are at it, let's change the opinion modifier for Free Cities, threatned nations should want to be protected free cities and republic should be more likely to accept then monarchies.


Side note, on Custom Nations:
I'm a tad unsatisfied with NI sets with repeating bonuses, and it's generally something you see on older NIs. I'd rather do away with them, but for Custom Nations, we already give the player the ability to turn up ideas to a high degree at extra cost. I'm not convinced that we want to add repeating ideas, even at additional cost.
So I looked up the new NI added in Golden Century, and ALL the new nationals ideas added in golden century had at least on idea giving two bonuses. We are not talking about having the same bonus coming twice (it's ugly/boring anyway), we want Ideas giving more then one bonus. Fort defense+Fort Maintenance or Colonist+Settler Chance, things like that are very common.
 

nobody856

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Currently cleregy estate gives 25% local autonomy what if pope got money(only taxes for eg.) from it
 

Zak Preston

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My 2 cents on HRE and Catholicism:

IMO HRE reforms should not lead to a unification under one tag, but rather end on Revoke the Privilegia. Reforms should provide more decent bonuses, but also have some downsides, such as no ability to become rank 3 and get a cultural union.

Catholicism needs some direct military quality modifiers (discipline, morale, or shock\fire damage done\received). While Curia provides decent economic bonuses, it's really not cool when almost every other religion has at least 1 army quality buff.
 

Ursul

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Succession wars were the most impactful and large-scale conflict in European history
I agree that PU in general need reowrk and I would add that successions wars need to be clarified and improved too. In my latest game as Netherland, Spain inherited Italia and only Branderburg batted an eye at the very obvious threath. And me since I had an alliance.
Big inheritance should trigger coalitions, or any concerned nation could join the other side. Just look Spanish succession war.