EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of August 2018

EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of August 2018

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Wagonlitz

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How are you getting to 3 free policies? I can only see 1 free admin policy from reforms and some national ideas that give 1 free reform.
It was more hypothetical, as in I could see it possibly being possible to get three free ones as I remembered there being several ways to get a free one, but coudln't remember how they worked/stacked.

And from your example then it would be possible to get two free ones in each category (remember that one in each category always is free by default) from that national idea. And then a third free one in admin from reforms.
That means that Sweden only would need to pay 1 admin, 2 diplo, and 2 mil a month to roll with 12 policies. Worth it? Perhaps, perhaps not, but it's not more expensive than other countries rolling all 9 of theirs without that reform and national idea.
 

Atalvyr

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Huh? You are running 4/9 policies free as a any country by taking the reform and not having an additional free policy in their national ideas. To run 9 policies would cost 5 monarch power per month. If you have the free policy in ideas, you can run 9 policies for 4 monarch power.

For Sweden, you are running 3/12 free, unless you take the reform giving you 1 more free policy. Lets be generous and say Sweden also gets 1 free reform in the national ideas on top of 3 extra "slots" (so 5/12 as free). You would still need to pay 8 monarch points to run the remaining 8 policies. I don't know if I can find "fourth-picks" for each category I would want to pay the monarch point cost for - outside of military ideas at least.

Unless the Sweden national idea also makes the 3 extra polices free, which would indeed be bonkers.
 

Palando

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How are you getting to 3 free policies? I can only see 1 free admin policy from reforms and some national ideas that give 1 free reform.

You can always use more military policies, but as they cost 1 mil/month each and you have to keep them for 10 years I don't know if I would want to run 4 of them. It could make you a military powerhouse here-and-now for the cost of slowing your military tech to a crawl for 10 years, so I could see it used as a "panic button" or to enter a phase of continued warfare once you have established a mil.tech advantage. You also could stack naval policies this way I guess, but that seems a bit marginal. Good admin policies are rare - most are just more income/manpower, not something I want to spend a ton of admin points on.

All in all it is not a useless ability for Sweden to have, but I would hardly call it OP.
As we're most likely talking about a late game situation, you'll have an incredible income by then, so that you are able to afford lv 5 advisors. Then comes the fact that military points are quite abundant in the late game, so no, you don't have any drawbacks because of running 4 mil policies.
 

Atalvyr

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As we're most likely talking about a late game situation, you'll have an incredible income by then, so that you are able to afford lv 5 advisors. Then comes the fact that military points are quite abundant in the late game, so no, you don't have any drawbacks because of running 4 mil policies.
Even if we say monarch points are free, the fourth-best military policy will be something like +10 morale or +10 siege ability, maybe +1 shock/fire pip on generals. That is hardly game-breaking for a national idea slot, no?
 

Vohen

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They could just make a new special government for those countries with fixed bonuses that incorporate the Reform ones. Sure it is more work, but it is certainly doable.
I don't think that's a good idea, first because frontloading centuries worth of bonuses from reforms to the very beginning of the game would bring severe balancing issues.
Second, and most importantly, this wouldn't even solve the issue to begin with.
The issue is that they will have two parallel systems that they will have to develop simultaneously, or not at all.
That means that if in the future they decide to do anything regarding governments, they'll have to do twice the work.
That also means they'll not be able to properly expand reforms in future DLCs because that would alienate non Dharma owners.

For example, let's say they make a HRE DLC and introduce new government types (say, free city, HRE prince, HRE elector and Holy Roman Emperor).
They will have to make those governments the old way, and then likely add new tier 1 reforms for them just for Dharma owners.
Even though this might seem like something small at first, when you factor in playtesting, bug cleaning, balancing, etc etc, it can quickly snowball into a large chunk of time wasted in double effort.
Now say that they have ideas for unique reforms specific for those new HRE governments, they likely won't be able to implement that, because that would make Dharma basically a pre requisite for that DLC, having Dharma effectively limit the development of future expansions, which is far from ideal, needless to say.
I have every intention of buying it, but this isn't something that only affects non Dharma owners either, as they can't develop (or can, but it's just not good practice) future expansions to make use of a DLC exclusive system, affecting the entire player base of EU4, independent of owning Dharma or not.

Think of how estates haven't been expanded since their introduction, despite having a lot of potential for internal politics and such, because it would alienate non Cossacks owners.
Having Cossacks myself, I am very happy that estates are now a free feature, because that means devs will be able to freely expand that system and make it ever more an integral part of the game (they are already starting that in Dharma with Indian castes, and I can't wait to see what comes of it in the future).
And that's even considering that estates were a completely new, detached system, meaning there was no risk of double effort, unlike governments.

When a system is altered to this significance, it works best to have the basic framework of it in the base game, and use DLCs to expand upon it.
So my opinion still is to find a middle ground there, having non Dharma owners with the reform interface, but being locked to a linear reform path depending on their tier 1 reform.
That way Dharma would still have reforms as its own feature, but future DLCs wouldn't be tied to it to work upon that system, and if they ever want to add new government types, they'll just have to add new tier 1 reforms for them, or something of that effect.
I'm being pretty extensive here, but that's just me trying to be constructive with my feedback for your consideration @DDRJake @Groogy
 

Palando

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Even if we say monarch points are free, the fourth-best military policy will be something like +10 morale or +10 siege ability, maybe +1 shock/fire pip on generals. That is hardly game-breaking for a national idea slot, no?
It's not like Sweden doesn't already have so incredibly many special treats for it...
There's also no sane explanation why bloody Sweden should have +1 max policies. Why doesn't France get +1? It's totally biased to Sweden being supreme or what not.
 

Atalvyr

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I actually really like the idea of locked reform paths for non-Dharma players. It would make the slower reformation from high autonomy a feature for them as well and would have its uses in locking AI nations to taking historical/useful reforms.

It's not like Sweden doesn't already have so incredibly many special treats for it...
There's also no sane explanation why bloody Sweden should have +1 max policies. Why doesn't France get +1? It's totally biased to Sweden being supreme or what not.
Do we even know what the +1 policy idea replaces in the Swedish national idea set? Because if it is their tradition or their +5% discipline, they are weaker for it - not stronger.

If you really want it for France, they can just remove the +20% morale idea or +5% discipline finisher and give it +1 max policies instead? ;)
 

Palando

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I actually really like the idea of locked reform paths for non-Dharma players. It would make the slower reformation from high autonomy a feature for them as well and would have its uses in locking AI nations to taking historical/useful reforms.



Do we even know what the +1 policy idea replaces in the Swedish national idea set? Because if it is their tradition or their +5% discipline, they are weaker for it - not stronger.

If you really want it for France, they can just remove the +20% morale idea or +5% discipline finisher and give it +1 max policies instead? ;)
We know what it replaces, namely nothing. It gets added on top of their legitimacy idea, Kung of Ricksdag or however that is spelled in Swedish. It's just a baseless buff to a country that didn't really need it.
SwedishBiasV2.png
 
Last edited:

F.A.T.H.E.R.

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Without Dharma it looks much like what you see in the current 1.25 version.

This menu looks very bad as before(note: I meen not the boni). Maybe you could change the menu to the same as with Dharma but with the difference of being streamlined and have to wait or tech and admin points or you have all government typs as stage 1 reform and need tech to change them.
 

Prince Ire

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Yes. I elaborated on them here
Yes, and you completely and utterly failed to address any of the concerns about the change.

I'd sure be more likely to consider taking any of the increase missionary strength policies if they weren't being rendered useless by this change.
 

Swami

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Does the Dutch republic government still come as an event or will you have to reform your government into it after this change? Also how about revolutionairy France for example? Just wondering, I'm sorry if this has been asked before.
 

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Does the Dutch republic government still come as an event or will you have to reform your government into it after this change? Also how about revolutionairy France for example? Just wondering, I'm sorry if this has been asked before.
Well in reference to tags with unique reforms, such as Japan or becoming Emperor of China, Jake said:

In such cases, you get switched to a new Tier 1 reform which gives you those mechanics, such as Shogunate or Emperor of China. This does not come with the 10 corruption cost.
So presumably you get an event which gives the option to take the reform (presumably without the corruption cost)?
 

noldorin

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When is coming for steppe horde goverment reform ? And Cavarly Ratio Modifiers ?