EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of March 2020

[Arthrodira]

On the options listed in the DD, each option listed as “harsh” more closely resembles what was done historically.

Then they should probably reconsider some of the options. Presumably the localizations are going to change anyway (I can’t imagine them actually keeping all of this nonsense).

 

[Nyrael]

Edit: The second graph shows how religious people actually are. As you can see most of the Catholics are still connected to the church via birth or communion but dont go to church anymore. The Calvinist are the ones that are still active religious people.

That doesn't really say that much about how religious people are, especially since different religions and denominations have differing opinions on how important is to be active in religious ceremonies. Protestant theologies generally consider it to be more important than the Catholic theology does.

 

[Battlex]

Something I've worried about for the past few features, is there doesn't seem to be any drawbacks to these options. They just seem to be click for more power, rather than meaningful decision of cost vs benifit. There is no real decision in it; when you can get it, click it and apply the power. Is there a challenge to that?

I also think that these choices may negatively affect the reformation. If the Holy See has the power to slow down the reformation, do the protestant and reformists get an option to counter this? Is there a huge cost to these options?

The downside is you don't have the other buff, which in certain situations can be worth it, like the monarchy reform that gives +5 abolsutism or production efficiency, and sticking with production effeciency at first to help spawn Global Trade, then swapping to the absolutism bonus once the age of abolsutism fires.

 

[Murrax9]

I’m honestly not sure whether or not you understood me. My point was that the function of the button (moving money from the Pope to the Curia) has nothing to do with the name of the button (a very rare and important meeting of global bishops).

Regarding insults, I simply meant that this could easily be interpreted as a cynic stating that the function of Ecumenical Councils was to (somehow) enrich the Curia. Honestly it’s more confusing than insulting.

Imagine I got a credit card but instead of calling it a credit card we called it a Constitutional Amendment. It doesn’t make any sense, conflates an everyday occurrence with a rare event, and kind of implies that the important document isn’t actually that important and was really just a ploy to move money around. It just doesn’t make any sense....

Oh then we totally agree. I thought you were against them using the name “Ecumenical Council” in the game no matter how accurate it is

 

[Arthrodira]

Oh then we totally agree. I thought you were against them using the name “Ecumenical Council” in the game no matter how accurate it is

No of course not haha. Like many others here, I think dynamic councils (that actually functioned as councils) would be a fantastic addition.

 

[Willem IV]

Nowadays most of the Netherlands (including me) is indeed non-religious and the Catholic church is now the largest denomination of Christianity in the Netherlands, but during the time of the Dutch republic Calvinism and to a lesser extent Lutheranism were the de facto state religion in most of the country. The majority Catholic provinces (Generality lands) in the Dutch republic did not have representation in the States General and did not rule themselves and Catholic church were mostly hidden and not in the open.

Catholics are often going only to church for a marriage and baptisms. Even if they don't believe themselves, as they think they have to do, or for the pictures on facebook (nowadays). So that keeps their numbers high, you won't see them attending the default mass on Sundays. While the protestant part of the country did this to a lesser extent, so the numbers dwindled a lot more.

 

[Vic3RebelUprising]

Papal elections need to be like HRE where countries can vote. Automatic elections sucks.

The same for Cardinals.

 

[Old Tercio]

Jesuits are considered as very liberal, and Dominicans as very conservative. As in 'left wing/right wing.' There's a little more nuance, but it really boils down to the Jesuits as touchy feely and the Dominicans are still doing victory laps over wiping out the Cathars.

I just wanted to comment on the whole Jesuits are "Liberal" thing, especially in terms of EU IV, this game doesn't represent them well, because when you have the largest religion in the world and its all because of the work of the Jesuits who had to diplomacy, adapt the culture and learn languages, all in the name of Christ, the Jesuits met with the Chinese Emperors, Shoguns, met high ranking people and converted many while also adapting themselves, really shows that the Jesuits did it all in the name of Christ, so yes they are considered Liberals because they chose a routed where instead of imposing they adapted to and its the reason why Catholicism is the biggest religion today.

 

[Murrax9]

I just wanted to comment on the whole Jesuits are "Liberal" thing, especially in terms of EU IV, this game doesn't represent them well, because when you have the largest religion in the world and its all because of the work of the Jesuits who had to diplomacy, adapt the culture and learn languages, all in the name of Christ, the Jesuits met with the Chinese Emperors, Shoguns, met high ranking people and converted many while also adapting themselves, really shows that the Jesuits did it all in the name of Christ, so yes they are considered Liberals because they chose a routed where instead of imposing they adapted to and its the reason why Catholicism is the biggest religion today.

It should be said that their missionary works and missionaries are not why they are considered liberal. The idea that people should be converted is a traditional/conservative idea. For centuries they were known as the most orthodox/conservative religious order, for example, see how they destroyed the Jansenists. The reason they are considered liberal today is their philosophers and theologians in the 20th century became known for being liberal and embracing something known as "Modernism" This includes guys like George Tyrell, Karl Rahner and John Murray who were known for their very liberal ideas. Many (But not all) Jesuits today would say that people should not be converted at all and might even say that the conservative Jesuits of old were doing something morally wrong.

 

[Robska]

Papal elections need to be like HRE where countries can vote. Automatic elections sucks.

The same for Cardinals.

And how do you propose the player influences that? You will probably always vote for yourself so the country with the most cardinals will by default win. How would you like to sway the vote of other AI nations?

 

[TinWiz]

Legends tell of Luther's epic five hour sermons, his face as red as a beet, spittle flying from his face and slamming his fist on the lectern as he damned the Pope as a heretic and infidel.

Seems like a fun guy. I'd also recommend taking a look at Exsurge Domine, the papal bull that excommunicated him. Leo X scored a few zingers.

 

[User29]

I love you Paradox, but random elections suck, they're the reason I hated catholicism, reliable mechanics are the ones I want, not things I can invest 1,000 points into and still get nothing out of it. Maybe you consider it realistic, but it's not fun

 

[MasterPaw]

And how do you propose the player influences that? You will probably always vote for yourself so the country with the most cardinals will by default win. How would you like to sway the vote of other AI nations?

Ideas:
What if you have half of your cardinal voting for you and the other half that can't vote for you?
Or the five countries having the most cardinal (or the ones having more than x% of them) can be elected, the other vote (and can sell their vote, gain opinion and stuff)
The one gaining curia having a malus to be elected again, and a minor malus for the following election.

 

[Zaragoza]

It would be nice flavour and help the AI in those wars, but you already have a bonus to tax if at war with the crusade target

But that bonus is for any catholic nation crusading, I think.

I was thinking some catholic-flavour for defender of the faith. Something like being the defender of the catholic faith and joining a crusade or defending a catholic nation under your title (or potentially suporting the emperor in league wars) give you one of the three bulls, adding a nation tax modifier for % of the curia coffer income of your country development. You can do it up to three times, getting an increase of the % bonus. Spain got a relevant part of their taxes from that up to the end of the Ancien Regime.

It gives a small dynamic for a catholic defender of the faith joining the counterreformation and antiottoman wars. The emperor already has some similar tendencies due to imperial authority and events. This can add a Austrian (adding to the emperor bonus) or Spain (conversion ideas) playthrough. Also role playing as Poland or AAR as others european countries (catholic France, etc).

Both a way to answer some complains that catholic is underpowered compared with protestantism and adding some depth to the defender of faith mechanic.

 

[Lightwell]

Protestant theologies generally consider it to be more important than the Catholic theology does.

But we don't hold that it's of any spiritual significance at all. That's just a cultural feature

 

[korawit13]

@Zaragoza, [Both a way to answer some complains that catholic is underpowered compared with protestantism and adding some depth to the defender of faith mechanic.]
I do not think to compare which Christianity sects get the best bonus would be a good baseline. At least All Christianity sects get a better bonus and a better mechanic than Animism and Buddhism ever get.

 

[NilsFabian]

Finally a reason to play as a catholic. As of now, I always went protestant

 

[Arthrodira]

Meet and greet? Brunch?

how about just synod...

 

[Julius426]

Is it possible to get cardinals as papal state? and how do the papal state get enough influence to become curia controller?

 

[Morcrabanen]

Okay, this changes nothing for Multi games, although being able to call crusades is a small buff, it is nowhere near as power as other denominations can use as militarily. As long as there isn't a strong military buff, Catholicism will remain weak on Multiplayer.