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EU4 - Development Diary - 23rd of July 2019

Hi there, and welcome to another EU4 dev diary. This week, myself, @neondt and @Ofaloaf have decided to talk about Hungary, its starting situation, its new missions and some further flavour we have added.

Now then, first a few words for the starting position. This has changed in a few ways, although the provinces on the map are the same. Firstly, as we have seen in previous dev diaries, Croatia is now a lesser partner in a PU. The two nations had been ruled together for centuries by the 15th century, hence the status quo where Croatia was a releasable tag. However, we have opted to make Croatia be a personal union partner in the upcoming patch so as to better represent the separate administration it had from that of the rest of Hungary. If, however, both Hungary and Croatia become lesser union partners of another nation e.g. Austria, Croatia will be annexed by Hungary so that the two crowns are counted as one (e.g. for the purposes of subject liberty desire).

A further change concerns trade nodes. I will hand over to @Ofaloaf to discuss these changes.

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Hey folks, @Ofaloaf here. Along with all the other work we've done on Hungary, we also decided that with all the new provinces in Europe, it was high time we revisited the trade node setup and considered some new additions. To that end, we've added a new node in Pest.

Pest itself, along with neighboring Buda across the Danube, had been a prosperous town in the Middle Ages, although the Mongol invasions of Hungary in the late 13th century caused so much destruction that Pest had to be rebuilt practically from the ground up. By the 15th century, Buda and Pest had regained a fair amount of their former strength, and their role as a trading center only began to decline again during the Ottoman occupation.

upload_2019-7-22_15-26-13.png


At the moment, it has only a few routes, but we're still experimenting with it to see how it'll work best with the new setup. Its primary purposes are to break up the relatively large Balkan nodes and give a little opportunity to break up the flow of trade to Austria from the Mediterranean. Along with that, Pest offers a Transcarpathian route to Krakow that should help feed northern trade a bit and make Hungarian-Polish relations a little more interesting.

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The third major change to Hungary's start, which we have also already mentioned and which leads into the mission tree, is in Ladislaus Postumus now representing a viable way for Hungary to become a lesser union partner to Austria – if he comes of age and becomes both Archduke of Austria and King of Hungary, Hungary will fall under an Austrian personal union. To give a bit of background on him, Ladislaus, the Posthumous son of Albert the Magnanimous, had rightful claims to a vast territory, specifically Hungary, Bohemia and Austria. However, his claim to Hungary was disputed by Polish King Wladislaw Jagiellon, who seized the throne and led Hungary to the Crusade of Varna, which ended the day before Europa Universalis IV’s campaign starts with Wladislaw’s defeat and death. At this point, Ladislaus’ supporters sought to reassert their claims, but unfortunately for them, he was to die of suspected leukemia aged 17.

The story behind Ladislaus’ life is now tied into Hungary’s missions. A new branch of the event tree begins with navigating the perils of the Hungarian succession, requiring you to not be a subject and have an adult ruler and an heir. Since one can do this by getting Matthias Corvinus via events, it is fitting that further missions in this branch are inspired by Matthias’ career. He sought to strengthen his position by the modest gambit of claiming the Bohemian crown – with Austrian support, since the Bohemian king’s son was in the process of invading Austria (besides, the Bohemian king was an excommunicated heretic). He first seized Moravia, Silesia and Lusatia, then became King of Bohemia, although his hold on the crown was decidedly shaky. We added a mission for each of these stages.

The Austrians had in fact promised Matthias that he would be made King of the Romans (heir to the HRE) if he did this, but now Emperor Frederick changed his mind. Ingame, if Hungary becomes the senior PU partner of Bohemia, Hungary will be allowed to ask the Emperor to allow Hungary into the HRE and transfer Bohemia’s electorate to Hungary; however, Hungary will not find it easy to appease the Emperor enough that it will grant this. In history, the dispute would escalate to the point that Matthias invaded Austria and sought first to have Frederick recognize him has King of Bohemia, and later to take his lands. Hence, we added missions to first weaken Austria (Austria and its subjects own less than 13 provinces, Austria is not Emperor and has fewer troops than Hungary), then claim the Duchy.

upload_2019-7-22_15-23-45.png


In another change to the starting missions, the mission “Old Alliances” will now no longer give claims on Moldavia if you ally Poland and Moldavia is a subject of Poland; however, annexing Moldavia will open up new opportunities to restore the Jagiellonian Union that existed a day prior to EU4’s start: First you must weaken Poland (like the Austrian mission “The Decline of Hungary”: Have a larger army and more development than Poland and its subjects), then you can claim the Polish throne.

Phew, that’s a lot of thrones for Hungary, if they can play it well and take them all. Anyway, that’s nearly it for military-themed missions: The last two are, firstly, one that plays into the rework of the Black Army that @neondt will be talking about below; it also requires you to have better morale than all your neighbours, and gives your military a temporary boost. Secondly, as a logical end-point to the existing Balkans expansion missions, Bulwark of Christianity makes Hungary have a larger army than any Muslim neighbouring or Turko-Semitic country, and gives +3 missionary strength and -15% AE for 20 years, so that Hungary can make use of its superiority by pushing the Infidel back further.

The final seven new missions are focused on the economy, prestige and governance. Since Hungary was not historically one of the richer countries, it is makes it all the more reason for them to pursue missions such as A Strong Economy and The Great City of Buda, which both strengthen the economy through the very act of completing them and through their rewards. Bibliotheca Corviana, meanwhile, reminds us that Matthias Corvinus founded one of the largest libraries in Europe and asks us to emulate him by adopting the latest innovations in the form of embracing the Renaissance and having 50 prestige. Finally, Fund the Monasteries is a reference to the influential Pauline Order and involves building a lot of churches; Unity in Belief involves achieving 100% religious unity in some way or other; and Nagyszombat University involves building a university in the Pozsony province. Each of these missions have moderate but useful temporary bonuses that, if taken when they are needed, will surely prove useful to the Hungarian player.

Finally, I hand over to @neondt to talk about the new changes to the Black Army.

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Hello, I’m neondt and I’m here to talk about a little extra flavour we’ve added for Hungary. This is very much tied to the upcoming [REDACTED] which I can’t go into detail about yet, so there’ll be some well-placed redactions to avoid saying too much.

Right now in EU4 there are a few events about the Black Army of Hungary, essentially a standing army of mercenaries founded by Matthias Corvinus and historically disbanded before the turn of the century. They’re currently represented as a modifier that improves mercenary discipline, and we felt there was room for improvement given the shiny new tools available to us.

In next year’s European update the Black Army will instead become a [REDACTED] with [REDACTED] modifiers, enabled by the same event that once gave the old modifier. With each passing ruler you’ll still have to decide whether to maintain it, but the monetary cost for doing so has been removed as that’s covered by [REDACTED].

The End of the Black Army event which removed the Black Army modifier will now occur somewhat earlier, but we’ve added a new option. You’ll now have the option to reform and institutionalize the Black Army, enabling a new Government Reform:

upload_2019-7-22_15-37-1.png


The Institutionalized Black Army reform grants a passive bonus to both mercenary costs and mercenary discipline, as well as enabling [REDACTED]. The Nobility estate will not however be pleased that the King has personal control over the army, thus relying less on levies mustered by the nobles themselves. You'll also never need to renew the Black Army on ruler death.

That's all for today! We're once again not sure what we'll talk about next week, so feel free to give us some suggestions in the comments.
 
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Hungary and Romania seem to be excluded from the map update.

well Hungary got the dubious pleasure of only having Croatia as a PU so yes Hungary got some updates, but overal as it stands it feels like another Hungarian nerf compared to the rest of the region. the potential Pu for poland and Bohemia is interesting though as well as that route into HRE. For the Polish PU does it comes with Lithuania? if not then having them just as allies are better when the ottos are knocking on the door.
 
well Hungary got the dubious pleasure of only having Croatia as a PU so yes Hungary got some updates, but overal as it stands it feels like another Hungarian nerf compared to the rest of the region. the potential Pu for poland and Bohemia is interesting though as well as that route into HRE. For the Polish PU does it comes with Lithuania? if not then having them just as allies are better when the ottos are knocking on the door.

I meant only map updates. They didn't touch Hungary it is seen as mostly fine, same with Romania - except for Silistria province. Moldavia isn't changed either.

There are obvious updates - missions, Croatia as a PU (special PU to be exact), fixed issues and maybe more coming later.
 
That's not a bad idea

This was indeed the case. The Bohemian-Moravian Highlands have been a major physical barrier between Bohemia and Moravia until the 20th century and the modern-day Vysočina region used to be our largest inner periphery before a motorway was built there. Southern Moravia was thus heavily oriented towards Wien, which was the closest "capital". Between the 30y war and the end of 18th century Prague also suffered from disrepair and major population loss, so it wasn't as appealing as an economic center. I've already referenced the tie in my suggestion for Moravian ideas that ended up heavily influencing the ones in the game.

However, one most also take alternate history into consideration. Should Bohemia remain sovereign or not tied to Austria at all, the "30y war" would probably still happen in some form, but perhaps it wouldn't be so devastating for Bohemia, so Prague would remain as one of the largest economic and political centers and the ties between Moravia and Wien would end up considerably weaker. Moravia being oriented towards Austria thus makes sense only in two, though very likely scenarios:

  • When it is part of Austrian realm, integrated or as a subject
  • When it is ends up formally independent next to developed Austria
But it doesn't make sense in the following cases:

  • When it remains part of thriving and independent Bohemia
  • When Bohemia with Moravia or Moravia alone end up a subject of different regional power that doesn't own Wien, so most likely Poland
  • When it somehow ends up independent but Bohemia becomes the hegemon in Central Europe (very unlikely scenario)
 
The time of troubles is already in game as a disaster for russia.
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I have tested this out, and although the event will fire, and on the rare occasion Boris Godunov will become Tsar, the "Fake Dimitr" event never fired; requirement is that PLC and Russia are rivals and neighbors, check and check. It doesn't work in it's current state
 
Did you ever see Disaster from Russia by AI?.

I' am am talking about mission for Poland to liberate some Countrys.
No i haven't seen the ai have this disaster fire for the AI, but i know it's in game because i once played as russia and it's in the disasters tab along with the default ones.
Your message sounded like it mentionned new ways to declare wars, not missions.
sorry for misunderstanding you, i'm algerian so i'm not native in english.

On another note am i the only one to find it funny that many countries have "liberate this territorry" missions that actually make you invade and subjugate this territorry, which is basically the opposite of liberation ?
I have tested this out, and although the event will fire, and on the rare occasion Boris Godunov will become Tsar, the "Fake Dimitr" event never fired; requirement is that PLC and Russia are rivals and neighbors, check and check. It doesn't work in it's current state

Then we should fix the current disaster if it doesn't fire correctly.
 
Great Hungary got tree that they deserve, so now its time for Poland. Seriously this mission tree is garbage you get no missions to attack livonia and Russia (maybe even PU them as it would be historical), neither to reclaim pomerania and maybe push to Germany to get back old Slavic lands.
 
He was being sarcastic ...

Actually I wasn't. How often do you see AI Ottomans control nearly all of North Africa or conquer Hungary? Not often.


Hungary and Romania seem to be excluded from the map update.

The provinces are fine as they are imo. EU4 could use a lot of fixes, but it doesn't need any more £&*!£*$ provinces at this point. What pisses me off is the complete lack of new events, idea or culture reworks or mechanics for the region.
"Carpathian Culture"? Not to mention the idea of Hungary and Romania sharing any sort of cultural understanding or similarity is historically illiterate.
 
I want to know a lot more about this. . . Hungary has always been a good nation for tall players like me because:

1) It already has a decent number of provinces
2) It was badly positioned for easy growth with the HRE on one side (and austria as an ally) and the Ottoman Empire threatening on the other.
3) A ton of religious and cultural diversity to manage . . . including developing and integrating those metal rich northern provinces of Croatia.
4) IMPORTANT: A starting event chain that let you get two EXTREMELY high stat leaders for early province development without falling behind too far in tech.
5) Decent ability to expand somewhat peacefully through diplomacy south and east into the Bosnian and Transylvanian areas.

I really am looking forward to the ability to enter the HRE and play the imperial game, another tall/peaceful option but it seems like the new mission tree could be pushing to focus us on expansion and aggression . . . Control this and that, weaken X and Y . . . And that completely undermines Hungaries place in the game for tall players.

Thankfully it also sounds like at least the Mathias event chain is partially unchanged and I do see some intriguing things in the tree like "Fund the Monastaries" and "The great city of buda" based around us strengthening the economy and dealing with the religious division (I think?). . . but I'd like to hear a lot more about this.

The last thing the game needs is another mission tree that gives MORE rewards to the already OP wide playstyle. I'd much rather see some more tall options in Hungary, and perhaps also in Lithuania which also has a lot of interesting options for a tall player who is willing to work at it.
 
i dont know where you get that it was a poor kingdom, not only its wrong, but if you simply apply common sense you would consider how is this poor kingdom resist the ottomans for centuries, challanges austria, influence the balkans and establish a standing professional army


i doubt the black army will be affordable (not that it is now)
 
i dont know where you get that it was a poor kingdom, not only its wrong, but if you simply apply common sense you would consider how is this poor kingdom resist the ottomans for centuries, challanges austria, influence the balkans and establish a standing professional army


i doubt the black army will be affordable (not that it is now)

From today's details, like how they pretrianonized the Culture Map of the Carpathian Basin by using today's Cultural diversity, back then was way more homogenous according to travelling merchants, Nobilities origin.

Back to the Game- I easily afforded the Black Army by having merc infs, cossacks cavalries-on very hard difficulty- by conquering Kosovo(Hont+ Kosovo on 10 production levels) and also aimed for the Czech gold mine. I also tried a different way where I used 6 merc cavalries instead of infantry-focused on Cavalry combat ability-they were decently strong but very expensive(thought you rarely lose much cavalry in a battle so their standing price is more disturbing) cossacks are better if you have steppes.

some Black Army vs. Full Cavalry Hungary battles:


https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6124bb82cedcaf26acf93347925c7121&oe=5DDADAE1

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=7581a09fb9cc8c2ba8e33fb2907db885&oe=5DD28841

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a74ed04597ba94fb9e7e5f142ba63430&oe=5DEED112

so IMO they definietly worth it, and you must build up your economy at all costs to be sure about to afford them :)
 
From today's details, like how they pretrianonized the Culture Map of the Carpathian Basin by using today's Cultural diversity, back then was way more homogenous according to travelling merchants, Nobilities origin.

Back to the Game- I easily afforded the Black Army by having merc infs, cossacks cavalries-on very hard difficulty- by conquering Kosovo(Hont+ Kosovo on 10 production levels) and also aimed for the Czech gold mine. I also tried a different way where I used 6 merc cavalries instead of infantry-focused on Cavalry combat ability-they were decently strong but very expensive(thought you rarely lose much cavalry in a battle so their standing price is more disturbing) cossacks are better if you have steppes.

some Black Army vs. Full Cavalry Hungary battles:


https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=6124bb82cedcaf26acf93347925c7121&oe=5DDADAE1

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=7581a09fb9cc8c2ba8e33fb2907db885&oe=5DD28841

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=a74ed04597ba94fb9e7e5f142ba63430&oe=5DEED112

so IMO they definietly worth it, and you must build up your economy at all costs to be sure about to afford them :)

you can conquer the world as ryuku, its not about what the player can do with a tag, its about the tag being able to do something in the game
 
well Hungary got the dubious pleasure of only having Croatia as a PU so yes Hungary got some updates, but overal as it stands it feels like another Hungarian nerf compared to the rest of the region. the potential Pu for poland and Bohemia is interesting though as well as that route into HRE. For the Polish PU does it comes with Lithuania? if not then having them just as allies are better when the ottos are knocking on the door.
when you force a PU on a nation you get all their junior partners, only a recent bug that gives clone kings but no PU
 
It would be nice when Your could make Missions for Ulm and other Minor states in the HRE
honestly they all need missions aimed at forming grand duchies or kingdoms, based upon the imperial circles, Brandenburg - Prussia also needs duchy of cleves mission to give a PU on cleves if they stay independent
 
i didn't exactly mean trade should only pass to constantinople, i meant that ragusa node should get the flow through pest node only, and flow into the nodes "wien, constantinople, venice"

and constantinople trade node would flow into venice directly, and to pest instead of ragusa

edit: i forgot to mention that it's not worth anything to conquer ragusa trade node if the collecting node is constantinople, it only reduces the wealth flow to what node who transfers into