EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of May 2019

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Ofaloaf

Content Designer
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Hey folks, it's time for another EU4 dev diary! My name's Mike, and like my good colleague @Caligula Caesar I've been part of the EU4 Content Design team since December. We've been working on a solid chunk of Europe, and it's time to start showcasing some of this work. As @neondt has mentioned before, we've had a lot of suggestions and feedback from the community, and through further earnest exchanges we've refined the map further.

But, before we get to the end, let's talk about the process quickly, because I know that's what you truly crave.


image1_smol.png


This image is what was used to pitch the idea of what would end up becoming the revised province layout in northern Italy. As you'll see in a moment, it differs from what we ended up with in a couple of ways- Como was added later, along with a split in another North Italian province. Province 5 was originally conceived as a separate Aquileia province (since the country still exists as a releasable in Friuli, it was tempting to see what could be done with it) but that idea was eventually discarded in favor of a new Trieste province.


image2_smol.png


Southern Italy developed much closer to what the original draft envisioned. The southern half of the Italian Peninsula has only a few additions, Avellino being the one that probably sticks out the most. The island of Sicily received a bit more attention, with the island's three provinces turning into five instead. Its new divisions were guided a little bit more by game design priorities than historical divisions, as historical divisions like Sicily's real province of Trapani had sizes and shapes that would have really stuck out like a sore thumb in EU4.

Unlike the northern Italian proposal, the southern Italian one was nearly implemented as-is. The biggest difference is that “Agrigento” had its name changed to “Girgenti”, which seemed more accurate for the period. Conversely, several proposed name changes to pre-existing provinces were not implemented, as they just didn't seem necessary upon review.


“Show us the new map already!” I can hear you guys politely demanding. Fine, fine!


italy_whole.png


Three new countries were added to the map as independent states. In the far north is the Prince-Bishopric of Trent, an Austrian country in control of an Italian province. To the west lies Saluzzo, nervously wedged between Savoy and France. In Romagna, Bologna is now an independent republic coveted by its neighbors.

Alongside these three countries are a couple new potential revolters. Padua and Verona now have cores on their respective provinces and can break away from Venice if the stars align, and Spoleto now exists as a core in Spoleto province, in case the Papal State's control of Central Italy ever starts to fall apart.

If we zoom in a little, more details reveal themselves.


northern italy.png


As the conversation linked at the start of this post highlights, Como originally was not considered, but after some discussion it became apparent that the inclusion of it (or at least something north of Milan) was called for. Thus, Como's complete contours now complement the comprehensive composition of that corner.

The creation of a separate Bologna province also prompted a revision of the remnant of old Romagna province; the old province's capital is now Ravenna, and Ravenna was taken by Venice in 1440 or 1441, so Romagna now starts off under Venetian rather than Papal control, although the Papacy does retain its core on the province. I'm sure this is fine and will definitely not be a source of tension between the two countries.


southern italy.png


Southern Italy was implemented essentially as described above. Sardinia received some attention and now includes Arborea as its own province on the west side of the island, but other Sardinian giudicati were not included primarily for the sake of balance- Sassari province in northern Sardinia has only 3/3/2 development as it is, and splitting that in two would create provinces with as little development as an Uzbek province in the Steppes.

Aside from the obvious mapwork, there is one other thing we added to southern Italy:

two_sicilies.png



And there you have it! Next week, we'll be talking about missions.
 
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One more change that you can see (one of my favourite changes to the Italian map) is the rejigged impassible mountains - now there is a direct connection between Savoy and Piedmont, and some more impassibles have been added in the eastern Alps to add a bit more strategic value to the mountain passes. This adds a lot of fun to northern Italian play :)
 
Any changes to any of the formation decisions, beside adding formable Two Sicilies (e.g. provinces required for Italy, Sardinia-Piedmont and Tuscany)?

Yes! We're looking at a lot of country formation decisions and revising them so that they require fewer specific provinces but a greater number of total provinces in the relevant parts of the world. We might talk about this in more detail at a later point.
 
Yes Kingdom of Two Sicilies

what reward does it give? Unique ideas? Claims? Rank? Missions?

We will surely be adding new ideas to them. More details on that another time.

Someone mentioned Italy's areas. Actually, the result of adding more provinces was that areas ended up looking much nicer now than in 1.28 (even if the colours generated for all of them seem to be conspiring to make it not look so at the moment):

upload_2019-5-21_11-19-32.png
 
Perugia does not exist?

Bologna is not a vassal of the Pope?
I figured the best way to represent Perugia was by having it as a Papal province with high autonomy. Like Bologna, in the 15th century it had an ambitious signoria at the helm, this is true, but its closer proximity to Rome meant that even at the Signoria's height, the Papacy seemed to exert more influence there than they could in Bologna at the same time. While it took Battle Pope Julius II getting militarily involved for Bologna to really come back into the Papal fold, Popes Sixtus IV, Innocent VIII and others were already repeatedly intervening in Perugian politics on their own.

History is never clear-cut and in this period in particular there's a lot of cases of polities that could be read one way or the other. Ultimately, based on the influence of the Popes and how the two cities were ultimately reincorporated into the Papal State, I made the call the way I did.

Then why Urbino exists and is a vassal of the Pope??

Since Urbino had the same relationship to the Pope as Perugia and Urbino, this choice is not motivated and by far one of the worst you could do for the Italian Peninsula.
At the same time as I was working with the above reasoning, I didn't want to remove any countries from the map if I could help it. Especially with Federico da Montefeltro, I didn't want to remove Urbino. So, ultimately I left it as it is. It is a little arbitrary, I will not deny that, but I had some reasons for making the calls I did.

Bologna a Republic? Well, even Wikipedia paints a more correct picture, so no excuses for this wrong choice.
Signorias are weird and aren't quite monarchies. A dictatorship or oligarchic form of government seems most apt for them. Even Florence under the Medici is in the game as a republic.

And why make Spoleto a releasable nation? Why not insert Perugia too in the province right north? Perugia was still a vassal of the Pope, while Spoleto was a very old Duchy. So it made more sense to make Perugia releasable.
I was partially motivated by meta-reasons, as I enjoy playing CK2 from time to time and came to this looking at its relation to the Middle Ages as much as I did looking at how things played out during the EU4 period. Plus, with Perugia addressed as a province with high autonomy and and certain surliness, I wanted something else for the other central province in the Papacy's domain. Thus, Spoleto.

I sincerely hope that the Lazio-Campania state is no more, but since you have not mentioned it, I am out of hope.
I believe the area revision has been shown since this post was posted. :)
 
Bergamo (city) should be more to the north and Saluzzo (city) more to the east (very, very close to the border).

Also, it seems like the city of Görtz isn't really located in the province, even. A shame it isn't a tag, too.
One factor with Saluzzo and Bergamo is that the cities render weirdly when they're on steep slopes. Both those were moved to their present locations because the cities looked extremely funky otherwise.
 
Well it's here and I can't say I'm surprised but I'm just incredibly disappointing, which seems excessive but I think there's good reason to feel exasperated after Valtellina was ignored again.

As already mentioned by several others, the valleys of Valtellina, Valchiavenna and Bormio were one of the most strategically important valleys of the 17th century. I don't think I have to go into detail the amount of times the region has changed hands, the thousands of troops that pass through the region, the most powerful nations in Europe vying for control of it or the feuding religious dimensions of the region, Paradox should know this, history is their business and the clashes between Milan, the Grey Leagues, the Pope, the Habsurgs, France and Napoleon should be self-evident. Even from a completely gameplay perspective a province to represent the Valtellina valley would make a natural direct point of passage between Habsburg Italy and Austria and the province would be more than large enough to be clickable and interactable for the player.

I just want to know the thinking behind why one of the most contested and valued territories in early-Modern European history would not deserve a province than what is the requirement? Because that's a big question a lot of us are asking @Ofaloaf @Caligula Caesar @DDRJake

820px-Geschichte_Graubuenden.png

As I read it, all that you want changed is that Como can reach the westernmost Three Leagues province, am I right? Making Lombardy and Tirol directly border each other would require some seriously weird map pyrotechnics which simply would not be right.
 
No, I haven't mentioned anything about the borders of Como specifically, but the general point is that currently the game cannot at all represent the situation in the 17th century during the Thirty Years War. Armies in Habsburg territory in Italy cannot travel back and forth to Austria and vice versa. If you can't represent that in EU4, there's a problem with EU4, not history. The issue is that the layout of provinces in the Alps makes representing history impossible. Habsburg Spain was able to march troops from Milan to Vienna through territory it controlled. France sent François Annibal d'Estrées with thousands of French troops to capture Valtellina from Papal troops.

Lastly, can you be more specific about the issues of "weird map pyrotechnics" and what you mean by that? There is literally a big chunky wasteland exactly where Valtellina is.

I kinda feel that military access covers the situation perfectly - after all, in your map, the relevant land is not owned by either Austria or Milan but the Three Leagues.