EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of July 2020

EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of July 2020

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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To be frank for countless hours I've played this game I've never been interested in those countries but all in all I appreaciate the effort cause some players joining the game from those regions want to play them of course. But how about addressing some realistic problems? I addressed them below.

My questions are:
1-Why wouldn't you add more impassable terrains to add more depth into the wars, occupation, forts, defence?????
2-Increase the pp gain by 1 in order to compansate the burden of pp usage that every new mechanics and more provinces to core brought.

These 2 are my initial and the most crucial requirements for the new patch that needs to be done.

3-Landing takes few months? That's nonsense! Rework it!
4-Marines need something more to be somewhat viable! No nation is likely to get naval ideas over any precious quality, offensive, defensive, quantity etc in order to be able to recruit marines.

So;
5-Naval Idea rework is required. My suggestions are:

a-Boarding Parties reworked to +1 Naval Leader Shock, +50% faster loading for all troops
b-Improved Rams renamed and reworked to Naval Profession, +10% Marines Force Limit, +5% Fire Damage all infantry
c-Naval Cadets reworked to +1 Naval leader fire, −33% Morale hit when losing a ship, + Marines Negates Coastal Defence Bonuses
d-Naval Glory reworked to +1 Yearly navy tradition, +15% National Manpower&Sailor Modifier
e-Press Gangs reworked to +25% Sailor recovery speed, +15% Manpower Recovery Speed
f-Oak Forests for Ships reworked to +20% Heavy ship combat ability, +20% Galley Combat Ability
g-Superior Seamanship can remain still +10% Morale of navies, +10% Global naval engagement
h-Bonus reworked to +10% Ship durability, +5% Marine Force Limit and/or Flagship bonus capacity increased from 3 to 5.
 
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Wolfrex

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Austria's arch duchy and Austrian empire are both tier 1 reforms I'm pretty sure, so happened before. Ayuttha swapping from having lots of vassals to lots of tributes justifies this reform change I think.
I hope you understand the fundamental difference between the tributaries and vassals? Tributaries, let's say so delicately, are much worse. And it is more profitable to destroy the heavenly mandate altogether in its present state, since the tributaries are inconvenient, they fight with each other, they can not be forced to make peace, they can not be punished for disobedience, and they make alliances with your enemies and participate in the war against you
Although if the celestial mandate in this addon gets its own, a special kind of subjects with special types of interaction in relation to them, then of course there are no questions, everything is cool and wonderful. But that won't happen.
 
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5 cents on weak NIs. The first idea - 0.2 vassal income - sorry, but it is just nothing. It's like Ayu doesn't have first idea at all.
improve_relation_modifier is also weak - should this two modifiers constitute one idea instead of two and still would be bad.
While I all into 'non-military' ideas to diversify, but give us something useful. And it's not only about this particular NIs - everywhere you see this modifiers.
Why military ideas are so desirable? They make difference. +10% morale early game is a game changer, you can actually feel and see how you crush your enemy. 0.2 vassal income? Will you even notice? Yes yes, I go vassals swarm, this should help. But it does not. And it does not have any impact.
If you want vassal gamestyle ideas, that will promote having big/tall, wealthy vassals as a long term playstyle (not 'annexation by cooldown') give some ideas to develop them in some way. Maybe huge discount on vassal development/buildings (like -30%). This way you at least will have RP option to develop your 'minor' nations, to interact with them. Maybe increase in trade power, so that vassals in not your node can ramp up money from trade you cannot divert. As it is now for this idea - it's weak, it's bleak, it's move along idea.
improve_relation_modifier - yes yes, I have vassals, I improve relations with them. (also increase speed of AE degrading - but we are not talking heavy AE playstyle, are we?) I just subjugated big enemy, I need to get our relations back on track. It's nobrainer. Idea is kinda OK as is, but it's nevertheless bleak. Instead, maybe increase base relations from interactions via idea? Say +50% from marriage, from gifts, from 'defending provinces'? I am a caring ruler, I want my pawns to see the benefit of my rule, not just 'let me wait it out, you all will eventually love me'.
And last one - about LD reduction. Those are fine, but to spice things up - maybe introduce new modifier for increased trust cap for vassals (potentially allies too)? And make over 100 trust giving some benefits - like decreased annexation cost, positive events etc.
So many disagrees. I wonder why? Do you guys really think 0.2 vassal income is a good modifier for an idea slot? Not in terms of 'balance', but in terms of engagement - if you will go with vassal play, will you even notice that 20% income increase from your vassals? Will it 'feel good' to have this idea?
I genuinely can't see how this modifier can be sufficient for an idea slot, especially for national idea (I totally can see how it is a part of Influence idea group - just a boring modifier thrown in, but for NI...). I doesn't really promote a vassal gameplay for me nor it rewards me for one.:rolleyes: Like I said - it does...nothing
 
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Radec

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Use your estates.

Upgrade your advisers.
But there are many countries added and possibly many on the way, and they do develop their provinces. It's not like you instantly thanos snap them and annex them. Also governing capacity leads you to develop instead of blobbing, however the ones who naturally blob should get admin idea 100% in order to cover their expansion.
In a sandbox game this is a big problem. Constraining you to play a certain role and pick certain stuff to be able to race the others.

It's passive burden on pp usage with every new mechanic introduced basically. Besides there are huge numbers of provinces added that also increased admin drain. Is anything not clear?

Even your suggestions are nonsense!
Estates only give you monthly 1 pp increase. And free 150 pp, and free general, admiral etc are now gone.
Now you can also get more policy that'll drain your pp passively.
And again how do you expect a country to compansate the lack of early pp exodus from previous estate mechanics?
And do you assume everyone playing France or GB 7/24 to hire 1-2 level advisors immediately?
Then you said upgrade not hire. That means you expect any country to get all 3-5 level advisors early or mid game no?
Even many countries cannot afford 5 level advisors by the end.

So unfortunately you said something without anything to back up.
 
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In our game, Jerusalem creates a Latin Empire, Venice gets claims to India, and Korea captures Asia on a mission. And giving a mission to the Ming Empire is not historical, Ahahah
In addition, it is not necessary to give the Ming Empire a mission to expand - to restore the Siyu protectorate, build fortresses, protect themselves from nomads, break the pirates of Japan, impress India, develop revenue, build buildings... there would be a desire.


But it is possible to give common missions to Chinese minor countries. And they were wondering whether to give the mission to the Ming Empire, or Korea. And they decided to give it to Korea. What really prevented both Korea and China from giving is unclear
They said they'd rather focus resources on Korea, rather than give Ming some, giving Chinese minors missions could be cool, but that also means China is getting even more stuff before other people. Qing already has a mission tree to unify China, the emperor of China has a CB to unify China as well as now cores on the 3 quintessential provinces. Korea and Ming obviously cant just share mission trees, and its quite obvious Neodnt just develops what he wants with his free time with some community suggestions

Out of interest have people observed how AI debt cycles this patch affects Ming mandate, as its like - 0.01 per 5 loans or something.
So many disagrees. I wonder why? Do you guys really think 0.2 vassal income is a good modifier for an idea slot? Not in terms of 'balance', but in terms of engagement - if you will go with vassal play, will you even notice that 20% income increase from your vassals? Will it 'feel good' to have this idea?
I genuinely can't see how this modifier can be sufficient for an idea slot, especially for national idea (I totally can see how it is a part of Influence idea group - just a boring modifier thrown in, but for NI...). I doesn't really promote a vassal gameplay for me nor it rewards me for one.:rolleyes: Like I said - it does...nothing
Mali gets +20% as well, and so is seen as quite the powerful tag in Africa because of this despite the various revolt events it gets, and as someone posted the other day, if you siphon trade and have influence ideas/iqta on top of a +20% you can keep them perpetually in debt which you pay off, and keep perma loyal vassals, especially useful in trade company regions.
I hope you understand the fundamental difference between the tributaries and vassals? Tributaries, let's say so delicately, are much worse. And it is more profitable to destroy the heavenly mandate altogether in its present state, since the tributaries are inconvenient, they fight with each other, they can not be forced to make peace, they can not be punished for disobedience, and they make alliances with your enemies and participate in the war against you
Although if the celestial mandate in this addon gets its own, a special kind of subjects with special types of interaction in relation to them, then of course there are no questions, everything is cool and wonderful. But that won't happen.
Tribs are amazing, they're just a very different playstyle, the money can let you confidently sit in the red, monarch points let you develop more easily to keep ahead on institutions, yes Tribs can eat each other, that's why the ideal play is to snake around them so they can't expand anymore, or have them in a different region to your other Tribs so only via naval warfare will they attack each other.
But there are many countries added and possibly many on the way, and they do develop their provinces. It's not like you instantly thanos snap them and annex them. Also governing capacity leads you to develop instead of blobbing, however the ones who naturally blob should get admin idea 100% in order to cover their expansion.
In a sandbox game this is a big problem. Constraining you to play a certain role and pick certain stuff to be able to race the others.
They shouldn't get admin ideas 100% of the time, you can increase gov capacity with reform progress, I've seen the AI do it, they build courthouses and the other manufacturies with rapid abandon, it also promotes the AI to vassalise and only take key provinces off the enemy, which the latter I see Ottos do alot more in the balkans early on this patch.
This must be a joke right!?
You haven't read or understand anything?

It's passive burden on pp usage with every new mechanic introduced basically. Besides there are huge numbers of provinces added that also increased admin drain. Is anything not clear?

Even your suggestions are nonsense!
Estates only give you monthly 1 pp increase. And free 150 pp, and free general, admiral etc are now gone.
Now you can also get more policy that'll drain your pp passively.
And again how do you expect a country to compansate the lack of early pp exodus from previous estate mechanics?
And do you assume everyone playing France or GB 7/24 to hire 1-2 level advisors immediately?
Then you said upgrade not hire. That means you expect any country to get all 3-5 level advisors early or mid game no? That is also nonsense!
Even many countries cannot afford 5 level advisors by the end.

So unfortunately you said something without anything to back up.
How much have you actually played this patch?
A consistent 1MP per month vs 150 every what 20 years is alot better, especially as the 150 was influence dependant, and you could only reliably do it when they moved the estate disaster to 100% influence. Generals and admirals get a -10 or 20% cost as a privilege. Strong duchies nets you 2 extra diplo slots so you kinda get +3 DIP per month off that. Post 1750 you should be rolling in dough and so have level 5 adviser's, as well as using subjects with perm claims to expand. You cant get the advisors via estates interaction anymore directly, but I've seen them on the diet screen, as well as free leaders on the diet screen
 
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Mali gets +20% as well, and so is seen as quite the powerful tag in Africa because of this despite the various revolt events it gets, and as someone posted the other day, if you siphon trade and have influence ideas/iqta on top of a +20% you can keep them perpetually in debt which you pay off, and keep perma loyal vassals, especially useful in trade company regions.
LoL, that's some nice exploit.
But yeah, apart from 'let's break the already broken' - in semi-normal game I had as Mali (obviously going for Abu Bakr achievement), I felt like I play without this idea at all. Your vassals are mostly poor in terms of taxes anyways, you should not keep them around for too long also, and those who really matter are better of being marches... So yeah, that's why I think promoting this modifier as an idea slot even further is not optimal. But Mali ideas are badass otherwise, so having one weakling there is kinda tolerable.
 
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Let's keep this on topic folks, per the comment at the bottom of the OP.
 
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Wolfrex

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They said they'd rather focus resources on Korea, rather than give Ming some, giving Chinese minors missions could be cool, but that also means China is getting even more stuff before other people. Qing already has a mission tree to unify China, the emperor of China has a CB to unify China as well as now cores on the 3 quintessential provinces. Korea and Ming obviously cant just share mission trees, and its quite obvious Neodnt just develops what he wants with his free time with some community suggestions

Out of interest have people observed how AI debt cycles this patch affects Ming mandate, as its like - 0.01 per 5 loans or something.
The Qing have missions to unify China, but playing as a European, I have never observed the vast Qing or yuan Empire. Maximum - Manchuria. And the Ming Empire is either split apart or exists quietly within its borders. (In patch 1.30, due to the new mechanics of mercenaries, the Ming Empire almost never falls apart itself) The appearance of tasks for the Ming Empire will not make it stronger if a bot is playing for it. But the presence of tasks in China will give at least some incentive for the player. As for the network game, with very few exceptions, no one ever plays for the Ming Empire in any case. So there are no problems here. This is just a simple reluctance, based on nothing. And tasks for Korea in General-solid fantasy, which equally spoiled the impression as in a network game (where it was preferred to form Manzhuriya), and in a single game. Further Manjuria with the Qing Empire made the national idea worse than they were. Although Oirat is very strong and interesting. That patch should be called "Oirat". I liked forming the Yuan Empire :3
 
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Tribs are amazing, they're just a very different playstyle, the money can let you confidently sit in the red, monarch points let you develop more easily to keep ahead on institutions, yes Tribs can eat each other, that's why the ideal play is to snake around them so they can't expand anymore, or have them in a different region to your other Tribs so only via naval warfare will they attack each other.
I know perfectly well how to play with tributaries and how to circumvent restrictions on the absence of a common border... Only this style of play is inconvenient and very Amateur. Ie, for an ordinary player, it is only a hindrance. Simply because the tributaries are too inconvenient and impossible to influence.
 

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LoL, that's some nice exploit.
But yeah, apart from 'let's break the already broken' - in semi-normal game I had as Mali (obviously going for Abu Bakr achievement), I felt like I play without this idea at all. Your vassals are mostly poor in terms of taxes anyways, you should not keep them around for too long also, and those who really matter are better of being marches... So yeah, that's why I think promoting this modifier as an idea slot even further is not optimal. But Mali ideas are badass otherwise, so having one weakling there is kinda tolerable.
vassals add to force limit, and provide their own manpower, which after merc change is especially useful for sieging in jungles, especially with the buffs on top for like mandala system reform
 
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Hate to be That Guy, but do we have an ETA on the update yet? I actually started a Majapahit game last weekend, wondering if I should continue...
 
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Blackwhitecavias

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Hate to be That Guy, but do we have an ETA on the update yet? I actually started a Majapahit game last weekend, wondering if I should continue...
Pretty sure we haven't. It does of course all depend on if this is a small update (in which case I'd expect a september or october release with the announced features, some extra ones and a number of bugfixes and balancing) or an actual dlc (which I really wouldn't expect before november-december depending on the size).
 
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Count DVB

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"Completing the Royal Absolutism mission awards the Chakravarti tier 1 government reform, which will have the (as yet unrevealed) new features of the Mandala reform without the penalties, as well as +10 Maximum Absolutism and +1 Monarch Administrative Power. It also raises your government rank to Empire. If you are playing as Ayutthaya, completing this mission is the only way to form Siam. "

This affects all of them right, including the Taungu?

Also, maybe mandala could increase number of diplomatic relations and trade?

Beyond Majapahit, I would like to see something with Pagarruyung and have them try to reclaim being Srivijaya
 

Wolfrex

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vassals add to force limit, and provide their own manpower, which after merc change is especially useful for sieging in jungles, especially with the buffs on top for like mandala system reform
The game from vassals has its advantages, because being strong and developed, they are able to fight for you and give you limits. Ie, the problem is not with vassals. The problem lies precisely in the national idea, which gives a plus to the tribute from vassals, but the tribute from vassals itself gives ridiculous money and this modifier will not be felt at all. That is why this parameter in the list of national ideas is equivalent to the absence of one national idea. In addition, when playing with vassals, it is you who Finance them with subsidies.)
 
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Larva

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vassals add to force limit, and provide their own manpower, which after merc change is especially useful for sieging in jungles, especially with the buffs on top for like mandala system reform
Yes yes they do. How is this affected by +20% vassal income? In this regard, +100% vassal force limit contribution is more solid modifier for an idea (still being blatantly weak and unfun)!
Maybe give something like +50% vassal manpower? Combined with other increments for vassal's warfare - push towards marcher/jungler lords?
 

Battlex

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The game from vassals has its advantages, because being strong and developed, they are able to fight for you and give you limits. Ie, the problem is not with vassals. The problem lies precisely in the national idea, which gives a plus to the tribute from vassals, but the tribute from vassals itself gives ridiculous money and this modifier will not be felt at all. That is why this parameter in the list of national ideas is equivalent to the absence of one national idea. In addition, when playing with vassals, it is you who Finance them with subsidies.)
You may do, but the only time I use subsidises in game is with colonial nations to help them colonise without debt, and getting that last bit of relations bonus to avoid coalitions. So I look forward to this idea change.
Yes yes they do. How is this affected by +20% vassal income? In this regard, +100% vassal force limit contribution is more solid modifier for an idea (still being blatantly weak and unfun)!
Maybe give something like +50% vassal manpower? Combined with other increments for vassal's warfare - push towards marcher/jungler lords?
This is national ideas for ayuttha, they've said there's new mechanics for the Mandela system so that's likely where you'll get the buffs to the vassals, not the overlords, and perhaps even a fixed gov reform for them, like the shogunate daiymo situation. Also numbers that you suggested are way too OP, so calm it lol
 
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Ihadabadname4

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Jul 22, 2019
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"You’ll also get a permanent bonus to Institution Spread, but a permanent penalty to Foreign Spy Detection."



lol, Institution Spread at the cost of some Spy Detection ability? It's a no-brainer, why would would anyone take the reaction path? Religious Ideas have been trash for a while now, there is no reason not to choose Tolerance in the current meta
 
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Ihadabadname4

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Only one question. Will this be normal Expansion or Immersion pack?
I have a hunch that Paradox is dropping 'Immersion Packs' after 'Golden Century' as another one of a certain former development chief's hare-brained ideas. People clearly prefer meatier expansions over a longer time frame.


Also, more generally, any plans for new nations in Australia/Polynesia/New Zealand specifically given the historical struggles that Maori tribes gave British colonization?
Events or a Disaster for Maori revolter tags or rebels would make sense, but there's absolutely nothing to support anything similar for Australia.
 
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