EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of July 2020

[Romanix90]

Only one question. Will this be normal Expansion or Immersion pack?

 

[Pyrolias]

Would it be possible/practical to integrate country specific event chains into branches on a mission tree in terms of a check that a player has completed one mission and has not completed a different mission on an alternate branch? For example, a mission branch to raise relations with a European power in SEA could lead to an innovativeness spread increase but disables a potential mission branch that requires a player to be in rivalry with a European power in SEA for bonuses related to isolationism?

In short, mission trees generally converge, why not give divergent options to increase replayability for specific nations?

 

[Battlex]

I think the tags that are heavy on military national ideas should be toned down by a lot. They are ridiculous and so are the expectations that people have for new idea sets.

They also could put military power behind missions so you actually have to do something for it. I like the reworked bandenburgian ideas because they are still Brandenburg without being a meme.

I like what neondt is doing in SEA with idea sets so far and I'm looking forward to see more. I hope there will be a tag that focuses on colonization since I'd really like to play as a colonizer in SEA.

i think malacca will probably be colonisation and navy focused, as they already have ideas to colonise, now if only they could stop late game hadramut colonising

 

[Pyrolias]

Also, more generally, any plans for new nations in Australia/Polynesia/New Zealand specifically given the historical struggles that Maori tribes gave British colonization?

 

[Battlex]

Only one question. Will this be normal Expansion or Immersion pack?

its followed a dlc patch, obviously free patch, like manchu, or hungary.

Would it be possible/practical to integrate country specific event chains into branches on a mission tree in terms of a check that a player has completed one mission and has not completed a different mission on an alternate branch? For example, a mission branch to raise relations with a European power in SEA could lead to an innovativeness spread increase but disables a potential mission branch that requires a player to be in rivalry with a European power in SEA for bonuses related to isolationism?

In short, mission trees generally converge, why not give divergent options to increase replayability for specific nations?

IR has it, but id doubt theyd add it to eu4

Any comment on the debt bug? The one that makes the game so much less satisfying to play, cause no great power declares a war later in the game due to having 10k gold in loans.

dood its at the bottom of every dev diary, you know theyll ignore it, and they do still declare, just have to weigh up allies not joining

 

[Larva]

5 cents on weak NIs. The first idea - 0.2 vassal income - sorry, but it is just nothing. It's like Ayu doesn't have first idea at all.
improve_relation_modifier is also weak - should this two modifiers constitute one idea instead of two and still would be bad.
While I all into 'non-military' ideas to diversify, but give us something useful. And it's not only about this particular NIs - everywhere you see this modifiers.
Why military ideas are so desirable? They make difference. +10% morale early game is a game changer, you can actually feel and see how you crush your enemy. 0.2 vassal income? Will you even notice? Yes yes, I go vassals swarm, this should help. But it does not. And it does not have any impact.
If you want vassal gamestyle ideas, that will promote having big/tall, wealthy vassals as a long term playstyle (not 'annexation by cooldown') give some ideas to develop them in some way. Maybe huge discount on vassal development/buildings (like -30%). This way you at least will have RP option to develop your 'minor' nations, to interact with them. Maybe increase in trade power, so that vassals in not your node can ramp up money from trade you cannot divert. As it is now for this idea - it's weak, it's bleak, it's move along idea.
improve_relation_modifier - yes yes, I have vassals, I improve relations with them. (also increase speed of AE degrading - but we are not talking heavy AE playstyle, are we?) I just subjugated big enemy, I need to get our relations back on track. It's nobrainer. Idea is kinda OK as is, but it's nevertheless bleak. Instead, maybe increase base relations from interactions via idea? Say +50% from marriage, from gifts, from 'defending provinces'? I am a caring ruler, I want my pawns to see the benefit of my rule, not just 'let me wait it out, you all will eventually love me'.
And last one - about LD reduction. Those are fine, but to spice things up - maybe introduce new modifier for increased trust cap for vassals (potentially allies too)? And make over 100 trust giving some benefits - like decreased annexation cost, positive events etc.

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Interesting: a country with a playstyle focused on creating an empire of vassals.

 

[Lancer_6134]

You excluded the Philippine islands when you were discussing the maritime SEA update. We're Malay too you know. The whole of the Philippine Islands should be included in Nusantara. At least shine some light on us in the next dev diary. Tondo, Maynila, Butuan, and Sugbo were Hindu while Sulot, Lanao, and Maguindanao were all Islamic. Please.

The religions of the Filipino polities by 1444 are correct, while Maguindanao and Maynila were animists but had little Islamic influences, they're still animists. What would be a great next dev diary for that archipelago is if they can add a formable Filipino nation and at least add more provinces and add some more development to the provinces... That 5/5/2 Manille is ridiculously underdeveloped compared to other 18-21 development SE Asian capitals.

 

[VectorialZombie]

Can you tell us the total development of the malaya, indonesia and mollucas regions as you did in the first dev diary with the indochina region?

 

[hajutze]

Interesting: a country with a playstyle focused on creating an empire of vassals.

We have that and it's called Ashikaga.

 

[Scayser]

Hi, I`m delegat from MP, and we have a question - actually, Indo-China is mostly unpopular region in cause of military weakness of local countries. Compare 130% discipline in India and here... yes, we have a problem. We hope, you will go add some countries with worthy military ideas?

 

[Avizerf]

Firstly, excuse me, this wall of text is copied from my comment from steam's EU4 Maritime SEA announcement.
@neondt I have several things for the dev(s) to look and consider for the next development update (can't post links):

1. Majapahit and its successors: these are the guys that should be able to (re)form the Majapahit Empire. By "its successors" I mean Demak, Daha, Pajang, and Mataram. These kingdoms basically have the same dynasty.
Demak's first king (Raden Patah, he saw himself as the rightful successor of Majapahit kings) was the son of Kertabhumi (Brawijaya V) of Majapahit and a Chinese (or a Cham, depending on which source you believe) princess. When Girindrawardhana from the city of Daha (now Kediri) attacked Trowulan, capital of Majapahit, in 1478, the port city of Demak sent reinforcements for King Kertabhumi under Sunan Ngudung, but they came too late to save the king. Girindrawardhana claimed victory and styled himself Brawijaya VI of Majapahit. Demak refused to pay homage to this new "Majapahit" and became independent.
Daha is the aforementioned polity. Its first king, Girindrawardhana is the son of Singhawikramawardhana (Brawijaya IV). Girindra's reign ended in 1489 by his own general who stormed Trowulan back in 1478, Patih Udara (styled Brawijaya VII).
Pajang is basically Demak, its sultan (Hadiwijaya) and Raden Patah is of the same family line. The kingdom changed name to Pajang when he moved the capital from Demak to Pajang.
Mataram: while not a biological successor, Mataram's first sultan (Sutawijaya) is the adopted son of Hadiwijaya, the first (and only) sultan of Pajang.
2. The ability to change nation name, via decisions or events, for nations that are basically the same but adopted different name after some thing happened, for example from Majapahit to Daha (if you want to remain Hindu) or Majapahit to Demak to Pajang to Mataram (if you want to become Muslim). These options would be preceded by event or decision to become Muslim or remain Hindu after 1478. Or perhaps do it like the civil war events in Morocco. See explanation above as to see why.
3. "Malay fleets tended to consist of smaller vessels not unlike those used in Mediterranean warfare." . Not entirely true, the Malay, especially the Javanese, once possessed a type of ship so large that it is the largest type of ship from ancient times to the mid 17th century.
Behold: the Djong. See Djong_(ship) page on Wikipedia
Primarily transport and merchant vessels, these ships also converted for pure naval purposes. It is one of 3 main types of Majapahit Empire's naval vessels beside Malangbang and Kelulus. Its existence is *interestingly* rarely discussed by Western naval historians. This type of ship is the one that gave rise to the western term "Junk (ship)". Fun fact: that term used to refer to both Malay Djong and Chinese Chuan ships before the second half of the 17th century. After that, it only refers to Chinese Chuan ships. Many Chinese or Indian "junk" ships that are mentioned in medieval and renaissance era maps and text (before Portuguese and Spanish arrival to Nusantara) are actually Malay Djongs. Seriously there's so many information that eludes modern western historians, just go to the Wikipedia page and research the references cited.
4. Lucantara or Luca Antara
See: Kelulus#Usage on Wikipedia
There's at least one western (Portuguese) source that wrote about a Javanese settlement of Luca Antara, which is believed to be located in Australia, in 1600. In that text, the king/duke of Demak sailed south to Luca Antara using a Kelulus ship, where the Javanese inhabitant had a mix of Javanese, Sundanese, and Balinese culture. He planned to meet the king of the nation but ultimately stayed at the port because the capital is located several days upriver. Its is said that the polity first came to be about 300 years before (in 1200/1300s). Makassan trepangers that visited Australia have a name for the Kimberley region of Western Australia, from Napier Broome Bay to Cape Leveque, called Kayu Jawa (literally meaning Javan Wood). This is probably where the Javanese polity was located. Would be cool if you add this as a nation, or at least an event to get a free province in Australia as a Javanese nation. Perhaps also add an event to make this nation disappear/conquered by Australian Aboriginals after 1700s.
See also: Makassan_contact_with_Australia on Wikipedia
5. Discovered maps/provinces of nations with Malay culture group should be larger. Fra Mauro's explained that one "Indian zoncho" sailed west from Cape Verde for 2000 miles. Ludovico di Varthema in the book Itinerario de Ludouico de Varthema Bolognese stated that the Southern Javanese people sailed to "far Southern lands" up to the point they arrived at an island where a day only lasted four hours long and was "colder than in any part of the world". Even when Portuguese captured Malacca, they seized a map from a Javanese navigator, which depicted part of the Americas. They sent this map back to Portugal, but unfortunately the ship carrying it was sunk off the coast of Sumatra.
See the Djong ship wiki page for more info
6. Javanese nations missions:
*Colonizing Australia: see Lucantara above
*Conquering Madagascar: see Diogo de Couto's Decada Quarta da Asia, there are natives of Madagascar that said that they're descended from Javanese, or just head to the Djong ship page
*Colonizing New World: see #5 above
*Conquering Canton/southern China: when the Mongol Yuan Dynasty invaded (and failed to invade) Nusantara in the 13th century, they brought many soldiers from southern China. Javanese people didn't have ill will to the common Chinese people. But the next Dynasty imposed a ruled demeaning to the Malays (especially Javanese): that any Djongs that wanted to trade in Canton are obliged to anchor at an island offshore, instead of at the port. Chinese feared the power of Djong, for they believe one Malay Djong cold rout 20 Chinese junks, and they feared that the city would be taken from them. This mission can also apply for other Malay culture nations. See the Djong Wikipedia page.
7. Malacca/Srivijaya successor missions:
*Conquering East Africa
*Conquering/colonizing Philippines
See: Srivijaya#Srivijayan_exploration on wikipedia
*Revenge against Indians (Cholas): or, alternatively, prevent Cebu from becoming the Chola empire. See Srivijaya#Decline on wikipedia
8. Java arquebus: as an early idea for nations on the island of Java both Hindu and Islamic. Also as a middle-late idea for Vietnamese nations (as Jiaozhi arquebus). This is a type of long arquebus that could pierce metal armors and Chinese junk (chuan) ships. It is developed in Java in the 14th century, and used by Vietnamese in the 17th century. Maybe the effect is to add fire damage dealt.
See: Java_arquebus on wikipedia
9. Provinces with shipyards/grand shipyards at starting date
Demak, Banjarmasin (don't know what it is called in the new update), Malacca, Cirebon, and Pegu is said to be the centers of Djong construction sites (especially Demak with Grand Shipyard, it is the construction site of giant Djong ships until the middle of 17th century). Demak, Banjarmasin, Malacca and Cirebon imo should have starting shipyard/grand shipyard. Maybe add events:
*Free or nearly free construction of Shipyard in Pegu after the fall of Malacca to European/foreign power, historically Pegu became a large shipbuilding port in the 16th century for building Djong for Javanese who resided there after fleeing Portuguese conquest of Malacca.
*Desolation of shipyard in Malacca after European conquest of the province.
*Desolation of grand shipyard in Demak after the disappearance of Muria strait (it is actually a strait until 1650s). Historically shipyards still existed there around the city of Rembang, Juwana and Demak but the construction of giant Djongs stopped because of this. This event will demote the grand shipyard into shipyard.
*Attempt to rebuild the Muria strait or turn it into a canal, subsequently another event to rebuild the grand shipyard. There have been at least one proposal and/or attempt, but ultimately it didn't come into fruition.
See the Djong wikipedia page for references
10. More narrow straits in the Indonesian archipelago: Between Blambangan and Bali, and more between the Lesser Sunda Island Provinces. Seriously the straits there are so narrow you can actually see the other island(s). References? Just see a map or visit the islands.
11. Add events or decisions for European (or any nation really) that are colonizing Nusantara: option to ban the construction of native Nusantaran ships above 50 tons. The VOC is so good at doing this, they later become the dominant player in the region. Another one is the option to destroy large ships and close ports; the weak Sultan Amangkurat I and II of Mataram, they're so unpopular they have to do this to prevent ports from rebelling (this policy is the very cause that changed the culture of Javanese people from master of the seas to agrarian idlers). These would reduce unrest while also reduce trade power of coastal provinces.
See: Djong_(ship)#Decline on wikipedia
Edit 1: some corrections
Edit 2:
12. Apparently, Jambi and Palembang remained as Majapahit vassal until the war of 1478. Indragiri (Siak) become independent 10 years earlier (1468). Maybe you can reflect this in game.
Forum edit 1: I can actually post this? Yay! It seems that the problem with the previous attempts was indeed the links. Also some corrections again.
Forum edit again: I am too perfectionist.

 

[Lancer_6134]

The religions of the Filipino polities by 1444 are correct, while Maguindanao and Maynila were animists but had little Islamic influences, they're still animists. What would be a great next dev diary for that archipelago is if they can add a formable Filipino nation and at least add more provinces and add some more development to the provinces... That 5/5/2 Manille is ridiculously underdeveloped compared to other 18-21 development SE Asian capitals.

I honestly don't know why people have to "respectfully disagree" with my idea. They should read history and check out the South East Asian region, you guys are missing the point.

I've noticed in the EU4 community, is that they don't like buffs on countries they don't play as, and it's a fact, lol. They ignore reading history if they don't like the nation being talked about. Manila was very developed and was in fact a fortress during the period, where the Spanish sieged it because they realized the importance of the province to secure a new colonial nation. If you guys don't agree with buffing the province, how about look at Makassar province with 8/8/5 development!

 

[Scayser]

Absolutely not. I don't agree with the idea that all national idea sets need to contain a narrow range of modifiers considered optimal by the most hardcore WC or competitive MP players. These are not things I think about when I design ideas (or any other content for that matter); I care about whether they're thematic to the country, historically interesting, and fun to play with.

Hmm, apparent colonization by europeans or occupations by neighbors - is it thematic to the country, historically interesting and fun to play with? Military ideas are necessary to defence country a cause of actual military balance. i can understand ignoring the desires of mp-community/or hardcore-players but without military ideas there`s only one way for this region in single or mp - be conquered. Historically, countries of this region were so weak?

 

[VoidStaresBack]

Hmm, apparent colonization by europeans or occupations by neighbors - is it thematic to the country, historically interesting and fun to play with? Military ideas are necessary to defence country a cause of actual military balance. i can understand ignoring the desires of mp-community/or hardcore-players but without military ideas there`s only one way for this region in single or mp - be conquered. Historically, countries of this region were so weak?

In single player, you can resist the European nations without strong military NI: sure, it's going to be harder than if you had them, but the AI is bad with everything naval (especially over long distances) and you can either pick them off at sea or crush them with numbers when they land. So no, their fate in SP is not to just be conquered, at least if you're playing in the region. And they explicitly stated they aren't balancing for hardcore cutthroat multiplayer, so the fact that they can't go toe to toe with European militaries under play control doesn't matter.

 

[Scayser]

Only one

In single player, you can resist the European nations without strong military NI: sure, it's going to be harder than if you had them, but the AI is bad with everything naval (especially over long distances) and you can either pick them off at sea or crush them with numbers when they land. So no, their fate in SP is not to just be conquered, at least if you're playing in the region. And they explicitly stated they aren't balancing for hardcore cutthroat multiplayer, so the fact that they can't go toe to toe with European militaries under play control doesn't matter.

yes, AI in this game is so stupid, that you can defend your countries against Britain, France and Japan at the same time, but if they were able to use their army correctly - usual France will easily conquere this country. Okay,most of countries will be helpless against conscientious enemy, but adding some country (it easily can be some small country) with comparable military ideas (almost like japan or manchu, for example ) - will be good for everyone, non? mp-players/hardcore-players finally get their country for playing in Indo-China, everyone will get what they want.

 

[Zarion]

Despite what some people claim, the EU4 devs have never and will never balance the game around multiplayer, as far as they’re concerned when designing, the game is purely single player, so stop asking for things that would only matter for MP, it’s never going to happen.

 

[orania]

If you are not logged in, the pictures are very blurry until you open them. Is this a bug?

just visit this page logged out and you will see what i mean. This was not happening in the past

 

[nexmaxx]

I think after Majapahit we'll return to mainland SEA for the sake of variety. But we'll certainly get around to Malacca.

Yes! Vietnam will probably get its own dev diary eventually.

Thank you @neondt for your work on SEA. After the content of Majapahit, we really hope that you could make a dev diary for Vietnam when you return to mainland SEA.

Regarding the NI of Ayutthaya, I don't think it is weak as many have commented, as it just focuses heavily on diplomacy, not military aspects. So it will not turn Ayutthaya into a military power, but rather a regional "influencer" with a huge bunch of vassals. It creates incentive for Ayutthaya players to subjugate neighboring countries and make them their vassals in order to utilize the NI.
However, the current in-game SEA provinces are not as many as those of the HRE or Japan, and there are fewer tags as well, therefore the players could find it boring after they have subjugated every countries around them (200 years maybe), and find nowhere else to expand to. I think that this geographic aspect can not be neglected when you design a play style focusing on making vassals.

 

[Wolfrex]

Ayutthaya’s mission tree rewards very few permanent claims. Instead, many missions award Subjugation CB’s, allowing Ayutthaya to vassalize large nations in a single war. Originally it was enough to simply have the required states owned by you or your subjects, but after some playtesting in both single player and multiplayer I judged these missions a little too powerful. So most subjugation missions additionally require reducing the liberty desire of relevant subjects. It’s not enough to have vassals in name, your subjects must be truly loyal to your will. Your National Ideas have an opportunity to shine here, but it certainly doesn’t hurt to complement them with Influence Ideas.

Some other interesting highlights:

• Completing the Embassy to Japan mission rewards you with the renowned Japanese adventurer Yamada Nagamasa as a general, as well as access to the Japanese Volunteers mercenary company (highly disciplined soldiers) based in Ayutthaya itself.
• Completing the Devaraja mission grants a new estate privilege that causes Dharmic faith provinces to have no Religious Unity penalty. We’ll talk about Estate Privileges in more depth in a later dev diary, probably one focussing on the Khmer Empire.
• Completing the Royal Absolutism mission awards the Chakravarti tier 1 government reform, which will have the (as yet unrevealed) new features of the Mandala reform without the penalties, as well as +10 Maximum Absolutism and +1 Monarch Administrative Power. It also raises your government rank to Empire. If you are playing as Ayutthaya, completing this mission is the only way to form Siam.
• There are several elements of the leftmost branch of the mission tree that I can’t talk about yet, but the general idea is that you’re using various means to develop your nation, especially your capital, and ultimately making your capital into the most glorious city on earth.
• The rightmost branch deals with Ayutthaya’s ambitions in Maritime SEA. Preparing an invasion of Malacca can severely harm Malacca’s relationship with the Ming, resulting in the loss of their tributary status. Further missions grant claims only on Centers of Trade in the region and require establishing trade power in the node.
• The final missions of the central branch (not pictured) have you taking on East Asia’s only superpower - the mighty Ming dynasty - and claiming the Mandate of Heaven.

Just a second...
But ayutya's first stage of government reform is unique. However, the mandate of heaven also provides a unique reform at the first stage of government. The mandate of heaven, it will supersede the form of government of Ayuthaya.

P.S. Add missions for the Ming Empire please =-.-=