EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of July 2020

EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of July 2020

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AnssiA

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Will you fix the Subjugation CB? Sometimes subjugation of country demands over 100% warscore. Also, subjugation generate a lot of AE. Looks like It just needs fixed warscore and AE and then these missions will look great.
UPD: You granted special 1st tier reform for Ayutthaya, but Mandate of Heaven is also special 1st tier reform. Does this not contradict each other?
Subjugation already gives you 50% WS cost, so you can vassalize something twice as large you normally could. I don't think it should work as PU CBs do, being able to vassalize some 1000-dev behemoth makes little sense. (Just like it makes little sense for the PU CB to work the way it does.)
 
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Ayutthayan ideas are still bad. Please give them ICA, Morale or discipline to compete militarily.
 
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@neondt Could You, please, comment, whether something can be done from your perspective with the "Eastern" tech group's modifier "+5% nobility influence"? Since introduction of the institutions and deletion of the "Westernisation" mechanic, there's no way to get rid of it. Would You be, as content designer, the right person to address in the matter?

I'm aware it's thematically completely out of scope for this dev diary, even the whole summer series, but the "Eastern" tech group has an attached modifier giving the nobility estate +5% influence. Currently it's permanent with no way to clear it, as the Westernisation mechanic has been deleted. Is there any chance to separate the two (the modifier and the tech group), so the player has some ways of getting rid of the modifier, perhaps based on crown lands percentage, high absolutism or the successful (i.e. absolutist) completion of the "Court and Country" national disaster? For PLC in particular an absolutist ending the "Struggle for the Royal Power" event chain (i.e. getting out of the Elective Monarchy) would fit well here.
Wow, people clearly don't like me asking this question. Are You guys fans of the modifier (is there something cool about it, I fail to see?) or is my question is somehow out of place in this thread?
 
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Hi Neondt! With all those newly added provinces, will there also be more dynamic province names? It will make the game much more immersive if we have, say, Chinese province names in SEA if the nation is ruled by a Chinese monarch. For example, it's quite awkward to see the province of "Palembang" being displayed as "Palembang" when under the rule of a Chinese elite. In Ming-era Chinese literature, the place "Palembang" was widely known as "Jiugang旧港." In addition, the newly added province for the nation of Palembang, Lampung, was known as "Lanbang览邦" in the book History of Ming (明史) which was composed by historians at that time.

I'm really looking forward for them being added onto the map. Not just Chinese ones, but also Thai, Malay, Vietnamese dynamic names. If you're uncertain about some of them, I'll be glad to help you dig deep into a bunch of Chinese ancient scripts and find the most appropriate names. I'm certain it's not a difficult thing to implement, nevertheless, it would enhance the game by a lot.
Best you can do is file a suggestion with the names and province IDs.
 
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Then please do Malacca after Majapahit, pretty please?
I think after Majapahit we'll return to mainland SEA for the sake of variety. But we'll certainly get around to Malacca.

This looks very deserving.

Though, i wanna ask you if you have read many of the great suggestions on the forums for South East Asia.

Many are really excited this area is getting an overhaul and there are some great ideas people are throwing around.
I've been glancing over them when I've found the time. There's some good stuff there. I especially liked the mission tree suggestion thread.


Can we see the missions below Vietnam and Burma? Otherwise looks good and can't wait to see what you've done with majapahit
Those are the China missions I mentioned in the dev diary.

Is there an event for Burmese–Siamese wars?
I prefer not to railroad wars through events except when it's really neceessary (like Dutch Revolt). The Burmese-Siamese wars are exactly the kind of scenario that the game can represent without any help from content. But of course they have a place in mission trees.

Very Nice, what about Khmer ? Is there a way to restore the empire to it's former glory ?
Yes! More on that another time though.

@neondt would you consider adding some events regarding Ottoman expeditions sent to Aceh? Ottomans had on and off presence in Western India and Southeast Asia during this period and while they never established a permanent presence they had some merchant communities in few cities. They also sent some troops, firearms and artillery personnel to Muslim states which had considerable impact in development of artillery in the area and success of Aceh Sultanate in particular. It seems Acehnese also offered to be vassals of Ottomans but this can best be represented with an alliance.
Here is some basic information on the topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_expedition_to_Aceh
That's something I'd rather represent through missions than events. In this update Aceh will have mission/s about interacting with the Ottomans, though one day I hope we see an updated Ottoman mission tree that includes things like this.

Hi Neondt! With all those newly added provinces, will there also be more dynamic province names? It will make the game much more immersive if we have, say, Chinese province names in SEA if the nation is ruled by a Chinese monarch. For example, it's quite awkward to see the province of "Palembang" being displayed as "Palembang" when under the rule of a Chinese elite. In Ming-era Chinese literature, the place "Palembang" was widely known as "Jiugang旧港." In addition, the newly added province for the nation of Palembang, Lampung, was known as "Lanbang览邦" in the book History of Ming (明史) which was composed by historians at that time.

I'm really looking forward for them being added onto the map. Not just Chinese ones, but also Thai, Malay, Vietnamese dynamic names. If you're uncertain about some of them, I'll be glad to help you dig deep into a bunch of Chinese ancient scripts and find the most appropriate names. I'm certain it's not a difficult thing to implement, nevertheless, it would enhance the game by a lot.
Dynamic province names are cool but also very time consuming to write. I'd be happy to implement any scripted lists provided in the suggestion forums (in the game files you can find examples of these lists in common/province_names. Also, please tag me if you make anything like this). Given that I'm the only content designer right now and my to do list is very long I certainly won't have the time to research and implement this on my own, more "visible" content like the topic of this dev diary take priority.

This is all looking rather good. A couple of questions (don't know if you can answer them at this stage!):

Will Pegu be getting its own mission tree? I still need to do a Sailor Mon run.

Will there be any new achievements with the new patch?
Pegu will get a mission tree.

Ayutthayan ideas are still bad. Please give them ICA, Morale or discipline to compete militarily.
Absolutely not. I don't agree with the idea that all national idea sets need to contain a narrow range of modifiers considered optimal by the most hardcore WC or competitive MP players. These are not things I think about when I design ideas (or any other content for that matter); I care about whether they're thematic to the country, historically interesting, and fun to play with.
 
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@neondt amazing work as always, I’m really loving the new flavor! Just some things to note though; firstly, I’m guessing Ligor in the south is still a Malay-Sunni tag, when in real life around this time it had become a Thai-Theravada state, with the northern province of Chaiya being placed under direct Ayutthayan administration. Secondly the province name of Nakhon Thung Yai is kind of fictional IE it’s an incorrect name; the province is meant to represent Mueang Thung Yai which is the old name for Trat.

Also, who exactly is ruling Sukhothai in 1444? Previously it was the already dead Maha Thammaracha IV. If Sukhothai is meant to represent the domain of the Sukhothai clan who at this time resided in Si Satchanalai, I’d recommend having Sukhothai under Ramaracha who was Maha Thammaracha III’s son, and later succeeded by Yuthit Thian; Maha Thammaracha IV’s own son. Otherwise, if Sukhothai is purely meant to represent the domain of Prince Trailok, I’d recommend having their capital in Phitsanulok since that’s where the king resided with it being the capital of Sukhothai. Fantastic job though!
 
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neondt

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What about 3 tribes in Central Highland?
I'd like to do something interesting with them if I have time. After I got some recommended reading from a response to a previous dev diary I decided these people are interesting enough to get some content. No promises though, my to do list is long.
 
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Absolutely not. I don't agree with the idea that all national idea sets need to contain a narrow range of modifiers considered optimal by the most hardcore WC or competitive MP players. These are not things I think about when I design ideas (or any other content for that matter); I care about whether they're thematic to the country, historically interesting, and fun to play with.
You are well aware that Ayutthaya was not a military dwarf. Did they really defeat Sukhothai and sack Angkhor with just 15% cavalry combat? At the very least make it 20% (to make it equal with for example the Burmese who have an idea called Elephant Warfare)
, or, what would be thematically and historically very interesting, add a special Elephant Cavalry unit. Ayutthaya was afterall a nation that utilized them extensively.
 
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Will Siam have its own set of NIs, or will they keep Ayyuthaya's/those of whatever tag forms them?
 
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Will there any new updates for Vietnam? Becuse in the early 1800s, Vietnam was a strong rival of Siam, Vietnam controlled East of Laos, and Cambodia meanwhile Siam controlled the West. Both were fighting each other 'til France came.
 
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Will Siam have its own set of NIs, or will they keep Ayyuthaya's/those of whatever tag forms them?
I'd like to give them a unique set - something thematically similar to Ayutthaya but maybe a bit more about internal administration. No promises but I'll try to make time for it.

Will there any new updates for Vietnam? Becuse in the early 1800s, Vietnam was a strong rival of Siam, Vietnam controlled East of Laos, and Cambodia meanwhile Siam controlled the West. Both were fighting each other 'til France came.
Yes! Vietnam will probably get its own dev diary eventually.
 
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Subjugation already gives you 50% WS cost, so you can vassalize something twice as large you normally could. I don't think it should work as PU CBs do, being able to vassalize some 1000-dev behemoth makes little sense. (Just like it makes little sense for the PU CB to work the way it does.)
Yup, subjugation gives me 50% WS cost and It's a trap, because if 1 WS = 2 WS, so 1 AE = 2 AE (AE modifier is still 100%). And I think that special CB which can be recieved only by missions and important for country's mission tree should work like a special CB which can be recieved only by missions and important for country's mission tree. It's NOT OKAY when you cannot move through your mission tree because subjugation of %Country_1% costs 104% WS, or subjugation of %Country_2% gives you 82 AE. And Ayutthaya's neighbours do not look like a 1000-dev behemoths. Subjugation CB have problems with regional powers like Austria or even Brandenburg.
 
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Absolutely not. I don't agree with the idea that all national idea sets need to contain a narrow range of modifiers considered optimal by the most hardcore WC or competitive MP players. These are not things I think about when I design ideas (or any other content for that matter); I care about whether they're thematic to the country, historically interesting, and fun to play with.
That is contradictory with how numerous ideasets in the game are designed. Including Poland or Nepal, which history does not justify the strength of their ideasets at all.
I'll quote your own post from over a year ago:
1595329022549.png



I personally think that EU4 in principle should be a game where you start your run choosing from countries that rather accurately represent their historical counterparts, but as you progress you choose to kind of choose your own path, and via some idea picks and tag reformations become the kind of country you want to be.
I think it's fine if Ayutthaya or, in fact, any of the Indochinese nations don't have "strong" ideasets, but would you be willing to at least consider adding some kind of formable(dunno, Taungu Empire, Siam that you already brought up or something else at least semi-historical) which ideas would be decent?

Otherwise I feel like you are going against your principle of "using history as an inspiration for fun and interesting gameplay results" and just straight up against the design of several other in-game regions, where even though many nations start with suboptimal ideasets and are just in general bad, the player over the course of his actions can turn into something far stronger. So for example, you can start as Saxony and form Prussia, or you can start as Mamluks and form Rum. The game offers several semi-histocail formables that are(seem to be) there just for the gameplay purpose of rewarding a player for conquering some region and extending the flavor thereof.

That's just my opinion though
I'm happy that there is work on Indochina being done no matter what ^_^
 
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As a reminder, @neondt is a content designer, not a programmer, therefore cannot reply on the programming side of the patch.

This development diary is about content design. Remain on topic.
 
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Hello again! Last week I asked you all what nation you’d like me to focus on today, and the two most popular answers were Ayutthaya and Majapahit. Today I’ll focus on Ayutthaya, with Majapahit coming up next week.

View attachment 601509

Ayutthaya is the nation that would eventually become known to the West as Siam. It is named after its massive capital city, so large and so bustling with activity that even its canals were filled with floating markets. By 1700 it may have had 1 million inhabitants, making it one of the largest cities on the planet. In 1444 Ayutthaya is a nation on the rise. In 1378 it subjugated Sukhothai, taking its place as the dominant Thai kingdom. In 1431, Ayutthaya sacked the great city of Angkor, capital of the Khmer Empire. The devastation wrought by the Thai armies was so great that the following centuries are known as the Dark Age of Cambodia - more on that in a later dev diary. Ayutthaya also rules the vassal kingdom of Ligor on the Malay Peninsula, and would go on to launch a narrowly unsuccessful invasion of Malacca and a more successful subjugation of its smaller kingdoms like Pattani.

View attachment 601510

By 1444 Sukhothai is barely even a subject kingdom. Taking advantage of the political situation, Ayutthaya appointed Prince Trailok as King of Sukhothai. Upon the death of his father, Trailok would inherit both kingdoms and rule from Ayutthaya. This will now happen in EU4.

In 1.30 Ayutthaya’s national ideas are both a little on the weak side and not especially supportive of a South-East Asian playstyle. I’ve made some changes to their national ideas to better reflect the flavor of the nation, focusing on vassal-play and diplomacy:

Code:
AYU_ideas = {
    start = {
        cavalry_power = 0.15
        liberty_desire_from_subject_development = -0.2
    }
 
    bonus = {
        diplomatic_annexation_cost = -0.15
    }
 
    trigger = {
        tag = AYU
    }
    free = yes
 
    white_elephant = {
        vassal_income = 0.2
    }
    corvee_system = {
        global_manpower_modifier = 0.25
    }
    trading_links = {
        diplomatic_reputation = 1
    }
    ayu_foreign_mercenaries = {
        merc_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
    }
    ayu_embassies = {
        improve_relation_modifier = 0.3
    }
    phrai_luang = {
        development_cost = -0.1
    }
    personal_executions = {
        harsh_treatment_cost = -0.2
    }
}
Of course it wouldn't be a South-East Asia update without new mission trees. Below is the new mission tree for Ayutthaya, which it shares with the formable nation of Siam:


View attachment 601512

Ayutthaya’s mission tree rewards very few permanent claims. Instead, many missions award Subjugation CB’s, allowing Ayutthaya to vassalize large nations in a single war. Originally it was enough to simply have the required states owned by you or your subjects, but after some playtesting in both single player and multiplayer I judged these missions a little too powerful. So most subjugation missions additionally require reducing the liberty desire of relevant subjects. It’s not enough to have vassals in name, your subjects must be truly loyal to your will. Your National Ideas have an opportunity to shine here, but it certainly doesn’t hurt to complement them with Influence Ideas.

Some other interesting highlights:
  • Completing the Embassy to Japan mission rewards you with the renowned Japanese adventurer Yamada Nagamasa as a general, as well as access to the Japanese Volunteers mercenary company (highly disciplined soldiers) based in Ayutthaya itself.
  • Completing the Devaraja mission grants a new estate privilege that causes Dharmic faith provinces to have no Religious Unity penalty. We’ll talk about Estate Privileges in more depth in a later dev diary, probably one focussing on the Khmer Empire.
  • Completing the Royal Absolutism mission awards the Chakravarti tier 1 government reform, which will have the (as yet unrevealed) new features of the Mandala reform without the penalties, as well as +10 Maximum Absolutism and +1 Monarch Administrative Power. It also raises your government rank to Empire. If you are playing as Ayutthaya, completing this mission is the only way to form Siam.
  • There are several elements of the leftmost branch of the mission tree that I can’t talk about yet, but the general idea is that you’re using various means to develop your nation, especially your capital, and ultimately making your capital into the most glorious city on earth.
  • The rightmost branch deals with Ayutthaya’s ambitions in Maritime SEA. Preparing an invasion of Malacca can severely harm Malacca’s relationship with the Ming, resulting in the loss of their tributary status. Further missions grant claims only on Centers of Trade in the region and require establishing trade power in the node.
  • The final missions of the central branch (not pictured) have you taking on East Asia’s only superpower - the mighty Ming dynasty - and claiming the Mandate of Heaven.


View attachment 601513

Ayutthaya can now experience a new Disaster, the Siamese Revolution. In 1688 a rebellion broke out in reaction to the increased European (especially French) imperial presence in Siam and the King’s perceived complicity in the influence these powers were exerting over the country. The stage is set for this Disaster when Ayutthaya has decent (~50) relations with a European power active in South-East Asia. When the Disaster begins, a series of events lead you towards either Openness or Reactionary options each with their own benefits and drawbacks. These events deal with the military, religious, commercial, and diplomatic power that Europeans attempted to impose on Ayutthaya. The disaster can end once you pursue one path to its conclusion.

View attachment 601514

There are two possible endings to the Siamese Revolution, depending on whether you choose the Openness or Reactionary paths. The historical Reactionary path ends with the Siamese noble Phetracha launching a palace coup and seizing the throne, which historically led to an isolationist period for Ayutthaya - and was perhaps also a factor in Siam becoming the only power in SEA to avoid becoming part of a European colonial empire. This grants a permanent Foreign Spy Detection and Tolerance of the True Faith bonus, but will also destroy your relations with all European powers active in SEA. Following the alt history Openness path results in Phetracha’s arrest and execution, and instead instantly adds a large amount of institution progress in the capital for any institution that is not fully present in your capital but which have been embraced by any European power active in SEA. You’ll also get a permanent bonus to Institution Spread, but a permanent penalty to Foreign Spy Detection.

That’s all for today! Next week by popular demand we’ll focus on Majapahit and the disastrous situation they’ve found themselves in by 1444. Until then, have a good week!

edit: I just noticed the typo in the title. Well, too late. It's the twenty-firth now. :D

No Philippines?
 
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  • Completing the Royal Absolutism mission awards the Chakravarti tier 1 government reform, which will have the (as yet unrevealed) new features of the Mandala reform without the penalties, as well as +10 Maximum Absolutism and +1 Monarch Administrative Power. It also raises your government rank to Empire. If you are playing as Ayutthaya, completing this mission is the only way to form Siam.
.
.
.
  • The final missions of the central branch (not pictured) have you taking on East Asia’s only superpower - the mighty Ming dynasty - and claiming the Mandate of Heaven.
So, one of the misssions gives you a unique tier 1 government reform, but another suggests becoming the EoC, and claiming the mandate locks you into the celestial empire tier 1 reform :/
 
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