EU4 - Development Diary - 20th of October 2020

EU4 - Development Diary - 20th of October 2020

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Massive consensus here that Zoroastrian bonuses are totally underpowered but devs can't see it.

This kind of exemplifies why I've given up EU4 after almost 13.5k hours. Lost faith in Paradox's stewardship of the game.
Oh no, it's not +50% discipline, must be terrible then.
 
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To go with Zoroastrianism, could we get Eranshar as a formable nation instead of Persia? The Zorastrian Persian Empires were very much different from their muslim counter-part, they all were very accepting of both heretics and heatens, had an absolutely impressive administration (usually the most advanced of its era), massive conscripts armies with a small professionnal elites core and dedicated themselves to controlling the trade between East and West. This could also be reflected in a governement type or be split between religion, state and governement. Then, the Zoroastrians also differed by having no slaves or major regulations on slavery, making the slaves mostly free, which is a massive difference with the Muslims, even in the later era of the game.

I also think the bonus from the rituals are a little bit too weak. Not every religions should be as strong as Orthodox, but the benefits of the rituals are very small, especially considering what they require and how hard it will be to get them, surrounded by muslims, from a weak start. It has to be worth and provide more fun than a single playthrough IMHO.

In the case of Sihkism, -1% missionary strenght per teachings seems massive. It seems to me that it force you to go humanist, which hurt variety and isn't a good thing. -0.5 instead would cap at 3% with all blessing and allow you to still convert, although much much slower. It could be expanded furter and be a scaled modifier, the larger you grow, the more impact the selected teachings have (could be both the positive bonus and the negative bonnus) or anything of the sort (that would be very unique).

Still thank you for updating both religions.
 
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Hello everyone! Today we’ll be exploring two of the smaller religions in Europa Universalis IV. Zoroastrianism and Sikhism. For the coming update we’ll be working on making these more interesting by giving them their own mechanics. Keep in mind that everything you see is very much work in progress, you’ll see a lot of my very temporary coder art.



So first let’s start with Sikhism. They already got some stuff in the game using events. Throughout the game's timeline as a Sikh you will go through the various Gurus that were a big part of shaping the faith in history. Each of these gurus would add their own modifier to the religion. We are now making this more integrated by making it a mechanic and adding some more player agency for what the player can do with this.

View attachment 643961
UX is very much WIP, here it is showing you currently have Guru Nanak as your incumbent Guru and that Guru Angad is his future successor.

You still get gurus over the decades giving you various modifiers as you progress through the game. But I’ve also done that each Guru will provide three teachings unique to that guru that the player can pick between. In total there will be 30 teachings to pick between throughout the game, and once the guru that gives that teaching is succeeded the picked teaching becomes permanent and you can’t switch to the other two anymore. You can at max have 6 teachings, and for each teaching you take you will lose 1 missionary strength. Each teaching is associated with either Adm, Dip or Mil mana and cost 50 of their respective category of monarch power to enact.

View attachment 643964

As Johan mentioned last dev diary I got sick so I don’t have a full list of the new guru’s values and teachings as some of these features got literally finished this morning and I haven’t had time to fix that yet. But I’ll provide a list as soon as it’s done for the people who love to crunch the numbers.



Next thing is my favorite religion of all time and why hedgehogs are holy. Zoroastrianism is one of the oldest religions still in existence and has a lot of fascinating things around it which is a shame that it has gone so long without having gotten any mechanics tied to it. If you didn’t know Hedgehogs are considered a sort of “holy dog” within Zoroastrianism, a creature of the light which is obviously why it’s the best religion.

Anyway so what are we actually doing with Zoroastrianism? Since in the start of the game they are not in any particularly strong position, a people in sort of a diaspora we’ve been focusing around that. We already have some remnants in Yazd but we are also adding the Parsi in Gujarat. At the start of the game the province Daman will start as Zoroastrians. But there is also an event that you will get if you employ a lot of Parsi Zoroastrian advisors that will let you convert the province to Parsi.

View attachment 643941

Continuing with the diaspora theme their mechanic added to them will be based on the Coptic Blessings but instead called Rituals. The Zoroastrians have been given 5 fire temples they need to rekindle, like in their old decision, and as they do they will be rewarded.

View attachment 643937
Keep in mind art here is WIP

The various rituals you can pick are as follows:
Yasna: -0.05 Yearly Corruption
Haoma: +5% Goods Produced Modifier
Navjote: +2% Missionary Strength
Manthras: +10% Governing Capacity
Dakhma: -5% Construction Cost

Also since we are talking about holy hedgehogs and zoroastrianism I believe it is only fair I show off my Lord Cyrus, King of Kings, king of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four corners of the world(also known as my bedroom). Click on them for larger pictures.

View attachment 643931
Curious boi

View attachment 643932
Burrito boi

View attachment 643933
Hungry boi

View attachment 643965
Sleepy boi

Hope you’ve enjoyed today's dev diary! Do remember that today we are celebrating the 20 year anniversary of the EU Franchise. Among the hosts of the stream will be me so be sure to drop by! Cya there!

View attachment 643936

Stream Schedule (all times in CEST)
13-14 - Dev Stories from EU1 and the board game with special guest Philippe Thibaut
14-15 - Dev Stories from EU2
15-17 - Dev Stories from EU3
17-18 - Break
18-21 - EU4, events and the upcoming board game Europa Universalis: The Price of Power with Aegir Games
Im a bit muffed that youre reworking Sikhism/Zoroastrianism but not Totemist when you're already on NA colonial mechanics. Or has that information changed and youre doing totemist too but i missed something?
 

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Im a bit muffed that youre reworking Sikhism/Zoroastrianism but not Totemist when you're already on NA colonial mechanics. Or has that information changed and youre doing totemist too but i missed something?
I understand why people want this rework, but honestly I severely doubt that they're ever going to revisit Totemism/Animism. As I understand it, these are essentially "placeholder" religions, since it would be too difficult and time consuming to model the huge, idosynratic variety of religions practiced by American natives. As such, they are not likely to receive a major update, although some tweaking would definitely be beneficial.
 
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I understand why people want this rework, but honestly I severely doubt that they're ever going to revisit Totemism/Animism. As I understand it, these are essentially "placeholder" religions, since it would be too difficult and time consuming to model the huge, idosynratic variety of religions practiced by American natives. As such, they are not likely to receive a major update, although some tweaking would definitely be beneficial.
Honestly at this point I'd even take just a few more events here and there. Or even just events dealing with arriving Christians/Muslims.
 
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Lars M

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Are you considering adding holy provinces that give extra missionaries for different religions, perhaps using some of the holy sites in CK2?
Are you considering adding some sort of religious manufactory for the update?
 
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BrotherJonathan

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Are you considering adding holy provinces that give extra missionaries for different religions, perhaps using some of the holy sites in CK2?
Are you considering adding some sort of religious manufactory for the update?
Ah, maybe something sort of like how in EUII all Catholic factions would get an automatic CB against a non-Catholic country that DOW'd the Pope or captured Rome?
 

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Both religions historically and including today did not practice much Proselytism and even had some ethnic religious beliefs developed (the modern Parsi for instance believe you need to be Parsi to be a true follower, etc.) so they are not intended by design to be strong in converting others.
Hi groogy, absolutely love the new update for Sikhism, I was yearning for it for so long and now that it's here I am already excited to try out the new mechanics. but i am kinda disappointed with the -1 missionary strength hit.
You said that there isn't much proselytism, true but there is spreading the teachings. even historically all the gurus themselves set up 'missionary schools', especially the 3rd guru. The reason that the Sikh population did not grow into a major 1 was that they were persecuted for almost all of its existence and the Sikh identity itself was taking shape until the early 20th century(a time which alienated the syncretic Sikhs from Sikhi due to the staunch nationalism instilled by politics at the time), before that there was a lot of grey area in religious identity, some considered themselves Hindu whilst practising Sikh teachings. Gameplay-wise it deprives the player of playing a religious nation and any 1-faiths, and as a lot of people say- it deprives of doing a 1 faith-Sikh world.
I think that the mechanic is a great leap for the religion but however, the negative missionary strength is a big limiter ib the sense that it kinda limits you to 1 route which in historical context is totally opposite since the timeline of eu4 is when its taking place, so in my opinion, the penalty should kinda like be that whenever teaching is selected it gives you a stab hit, relation and Diplo rep penalty, unrest and/or a debuff to the morale/discipline for a couple of years.
 
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Here's hoping the dev isn't ill again and that's why still no dev diary

EDIT: maybe I'm ill and that's why I mistook Monday for Tuesday
 
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Sikhism can get up to -6% missionary strength for itself If I want to use all the bonuses and only has a +2% decision, that's going to make spreading Sikhism almost pointless.
 

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Sikhism can get up to -6% missionary strength for itself If I want to use all the bonuses and only has a +2% decision, that's going to make spreading Sikhism almost pointless.
Laughs in Confucianism
 
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They are balanced around that as Zoroastrian you are most likely going to form Persia considering the holy sites and as such they combine together with this
View attachment 643969

Plus the really good trade goods of the region.
But the "Persia" tag is _heavily_ based on the Safavid Empire. Why not give us an "Eranshahr" formable? Certainly the Pahlavi literature in the era of or closely preceding EU4 still talks about the restoration of the Empire much like it was "restored" after the invasion of the wicked Alexander the Roman.

(Anyone curious about Zoroastrianism can check out my contributions to /r/Askhistorians here, incidentally: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/profiles/lcnielsen )

Here's a quick draft of potential _Eranshahr_ ideas:

Traditions: - +15% Cavalry Combat Ability, +20% Cavalry Ratio
Ambition: +50% Vassal Income Bonus

Eran ud Aneran - +1 Tolerance of Heathens, +1 Promoted Cultures

"The king of kings Shapur declared himself the "King of Kings of Aryans and Non-Aryans" to mark the inclusion of large numbers of Christians and others within his empire."

Great Wall of Gurgan - +20% Fort Defensiveness

"The Great Wall of Gurgan was a marvel of military engineering, designed to protect valuable trade routes and cities from the volatile steppes of Central Asia."

Anushirwan - +15% tax rate, +10% Manpower

"Khusrau Anushirwan, or 'the Immortal Soul', is remembered as one of the greatest Sasanian Kings, owing to his many civil and military reforms."

Seven Great Houses - +20% Governing Capacity

"The Seven Great Houses of Arsacid Heritage were pivotal to the flourishing of the Sasanian Empire, providing the King of Kings with his levies, and his able administration."

Daylami - +5% Discipline

"The heavy infantry of the Daylam region made up the Empire's most formidable footmen."

Hupadkhwaday - -2 National Unrest

"The notion of Hupadkhwaday, or Good Rulership, was one of the most important duties of all lords, including the King of Kings. This notion was so integral to the flourishing of Persian society it would immediately be adopted within the ruling ideologies of the early Caliphates."

The Equal of Rome - +2 Diplomatic Reputation

"The Shahanshah of the Sasanian Empire was the only other ruler who was recognized as a Basileus by the Eastern Roman Empire, and thereby acknowledged as the only monarch equal in status to the Roman Emperor."
 
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Kalderus

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The ONLY country that should be forming Persia is Ardabil, or you doing it wrong.
Only if you're specifically forming Shi'ite Safavid Persia. I would actually argue that a Zoroastrian Persia should get a separate "Eranshar" tag, since several of the missions and events surrounding Persia assume or require you to be Shia (one mission specifically about the Shrines of Najaf and Kerbala).
 
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