EU4 - Development Diary - 1st of September 2020

EU4 - Development Diary - 1st of September 2020

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klingonadmiral

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Malaya outclasses Venice so hard on both galley warfare and trade it's not even funny.
"Whoever is Lord of Malacca has his hands on the throat of Venice."

- Tome Pires

Also, Malaya is a formable while Venice exist from 1444. Also also, Venitian ideas have always been considered borderline bad.
 
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Lancer_6134

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Maybe I was wrong all along, I did extensive research and found out that Philippines is in the Western Europe region
 
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Froonk

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"Whoever is Lord of Malacca has his hands on the throat of Venice."

- Tome Pires

Also, Malaya is a formable while Venice exist from 1444. Also also, Venitian ideas have always been considered borderline bad.
That wasn't related to Malay states galley warfare or trade efficiency but rather because the trade Venice profited from had its goods from Southeast Asia. I am not even sure why you thought that quote was relevant here but no that aphorism doesn't explain this situation at all. Venice benefited from existence of independent Malay states, not harmed by it since they relied on independent Indian and Southeast Asian traders sending goods to Red Sea and Persian gulf. Not only that, even for the context of Portugal and Venice, it wasn't true, considering that after initial blockade of Red Sea and Persian gulf trade routes which choked Venetian profits coupled with their war with Ottomans in 1499, they managed to recoup their loses and had a government revenue that far exceeded Portugal's in rest of 16th century. I suppose since if you blockade red sea trade route, Venice is hurt by lack of supply it would be sensible that we should also give Mamlukes 25% galley warfare, 10% ship durability and 15% naval morale because Tome Pires said some cool sounding phrase 500 years ago.

Yes, Venetian ideas are terrible (hence my suggestion thread) but they had an unique situation of having best galley combat ability, now they lost even that flavour. However even if they were not, this ideaset is way better than what the ideal Venice could have been, considering their unique focus on galley warfare and doing trade efficiently.
 
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klingonadmiral

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but they had an unique situation of having best galley combat ability, now they lost even that flavour.
Well, but that doesn't really affect Venice, does it? Knowing that some country on the other side of the globe might have better galleys does not make Venice's galleys worse. If played right, they will still be the ruler of the Mediterranean Waves.
 
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IndigoRage

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Well, but that doesn't really affect Venice, does it? Knowing that some country on the other side of the globe might have better galleys does not make Venice's galleys worse. If played right, they will still be the ruler of the Mediterranean Waves.
Not to mention Malaya is only the ruler of the waves in a region it's pretty much guaranteed to rule the waves of by the time it forms anyway...
 

klingonadmiral

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or even Japan.
Why would Japan flip to Thai to form Siam when they could instead flip to Altaic and form Yuan, which slaps the Siamese idea set around. Also Japan proper is an endgame tag. And Japan arguably still has a stronger military than Siam.
 
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Froonk

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Well, but that doesn't really affect Venice, does it? Knowing that some country on the other side of the globe might have better galleys does not make Venice's galleys worse. If played right, they will still be the ruler of the Mediterranean Waves.
It does effect Venice, because there are certain flavours in the game. This is not some sort of pure mechanical experience in interactions of game fundamentals. There is a theme of historical context here, while it isn't and shouldn't attempt to be realistic, it should try to keep its theme and flavour.

This same case why Prussia has extremely strong set of military ideas, or why Poland has best cavalry combat idea, or why Ottomans get siege bonuses, why Portugal and Spain have bonuses to colonisation. By its sheer position, Portugal needs no bonuses to colonisation at all because it's the one best suited to colonise right from start yet gets them anyway. Because there is a certain flavour and image to these states that is fit within the general theme of the game.

Venice having a weak idea set for galley warfare or trade is same as Ottomans having bad siege, Poland having bad cavalry, Portugal and Spain being bad at colonisation, Great Britain being bad at heavy ship warfare. Whether galley warfare or trade bonuses are relevant to world conquest or not isn't even part of the discussion, cavalry is not particularly useful in this game either but a lot of states get passing bonuses to cavalry because of their flavour. Moreover, this is about direct, relative comparison of what two states both by flavour focused on galley warfare and trade should have. By same consideration of themes and flavour that has Poland have strongest cavalry in the game (which is not even historically accurate, but concerns image rather), Venice should have strongest galley warfare.

This type of argument you make can be literally made by any idea in the game, and by same token extended to thought process that why should ideas represent any type of historical flavour at all, if you are to only consider starting positions and gameplay fundamentals, you should redo all idea sets in the game.
 
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AessaSH

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Thanks for your hard work @neondt, we appreciate it.
Although I'm a bit disappointed that there is no event or mission tree for Demak or Makassar despite they have larger territory and influence than Sunda or Bali.

Also, please change the religion of Pagarruyung from Therevada into Mahayana. Historically, Old Malay Kingdoms from Srivijaya, Dharmasraya, to Pagarruyung are adherent of Mahayana Buddhism.
 
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Me_

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It's formable now! You have to play as Sambas and Ming must not own that one coastal Hakka province. Lanfang has a unique government reform and national ideas.
Cool!
I have no idea what you're talking about ;)
Animism divided after all? :eek:
 
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WolfAleron

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Education Reform: -10% technology cost

Filler
idk I feel like getting that 10% discount in a region where you will barely get any institutions + rough jungle terrain for development,I'd say it's quite good.
 
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BlazeKnight_

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Let me once again talk about national ideas, since NIs are a big part of whether you see nations in multiplayer:

Malaya:

Similar to Brunei, the 10% Land Morale has literally no reason to be there. Other than that it's fine, although a dev cost modifier would have been nice.

Siam:

This is now arguably the best land national idea set in the entire Oriental. If you're playing anyone in Indochina or near it (Burma, Bengal), then there's literally no reason to swap to Siamese culture and grab these national ideas. I think it's hilarious how the manpower creep in national ideas has finally hit the 30s now.

10% Morale and 5% Discipline is great, but the craziest part is the +1 Cavalry Fire AND +15% CCA. Mind you, Cavalry Fire only goes up to 1 in vanilla: +0.5 at tech 11 and +0.5 at tech 22. This makes Cavalry worth using and means that ~20% of Siam's armies will be slamming you during the shock phase, since their Cavalry will literally be 200% better for most of the mid-late game during the fire phase and actually survive it. -10% Development Cost is god as well.

Hell, even faraway nations like Korea, Malayans not going Naval, probably Manchu as well will want to form Siam now, since East Asia is somewhat lacking in such easy to access good NIs.
 
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