EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of July 2020

[Canute VII]

I don't see a need to make a new technology group for SEA. Would be a lot of work for no real gain. The Chinese group serves its purpose in SEA, though in my opinion technology groups are an arbitrary relic of the past.

Well, for the eastern part of SEA it would at least make more sense if they were part of the indian tech group. Maybe EoC tributaries should have a decision that changes teir tech group to chinese.

 

[grommile]

Also, I think adding rice would be a very good idea, as Grain is a very broad and bland trade good that suffer from the "cannot meaningfully aim at trading in bonus without global dominance" problem very much.

Cloves actually make sense on a level that rice doesn't.

Look at the lengths the VOC went to to maintain a monopoly on the clove trade.

 

[brantodb01]

Is Malay gonna get a uniqu or expanded mission tree? Or is it inheriting as well?

 

[AFKaiser]

Can we expect new Philippine tags and/or mission trees?

 

[Canute VII]

Cloves actually make sense on a level that rice doesn't.

Look at the lengths the VOC went to to maintain a monopoly on the clove trade.

That's a pretty euro-centric opinion.

 

[fredrikslicer]

Currently I'm thinking this should be part of their mission tree rather than the formation decision.

That works too also are the Moro pirates represented? maybe with a pirate mission for philipines

 

[TheDungen]

Well, the least one can say to this is that there is some very inconsistent logic at work with this decision...

Not really rice is base food, it competes directly with things like wheat and potatoes. Meanwhile spices don't compete directly with one another.

That's a pretty euro-centric opinion.

Not really, base foods are all pretty much interchangeable. Having a monopoly on wheat won't do you much good if there's a major rice producer elsewhere and vice versa. When the potato was introduced in Europe it hurt the economies of the classic wheat producing nations hard because the rest of the region ended up way less dependent on them. And potato and wheat are more dissimilar to rice and wheat.

 

[-Leonidas-]

Could you maybe combine the changes made to Malaya with giving it a nicer flag? The current one makes it very undesirable for me to form the country.

 

[grommile]

That's a pretty euro-centric opinion.

It's a merchant-centric opinion.

Which I feel is a reasonable way to look at trade goods.

 

[IndigoRage]

Are there any plans on using the rename feature for some other generic formables (giving eg. both Hindustan and Bharat an option to keep the name of the forming nation)?

This could be applied to a lot of countries to make them look 'proper' without having to design a new tag. I hope it becomes even more widespread.

As for more trade goods: Why do people even care that there are going to be more specific goods? As someone else said, the way trade was set up before, it was almost always the case that conquering the world was THE only reasonable way to dominate trade. This way value is placed on certain places in particular more than others much like IRL. IMO unique trade goods is way more interesting playing as a colonial power than a big "spice islands" trade bonus.

Will Ternate and Tidore still have to culture shift to form Malaya?

 

[IndigoRage]

That's a pretty euro-centric opinion.

Part of the appeal of this area in particular is always going to be in how it can be exploited for European trade. That's just part of the game. This also benefits the Maluku tags themselves and makes them more interesting and unique than the prior "spice islands" trade bonus imo.

 

[Canute VII]

Not really rice is base food, it competes directly with things like wheat and potatoes. Meanwhile spices don't compete directly with one another.


Not really, base foods are all pretty much interchangeable. Having a monopoly on wheat won't do you much good if there's a major rice producer elsewhere and vice versa. When the potato was introduced in Europe it hurt the economies of the classic wheat producing nations hard because the rest of the region ended up way less dependent on them. And potato and wheat are more dissimilar to rice and wheat.

Look, ask any asian about their food preferences and they'll consistently opt for rice instead of bread. Even if living in the west for many years. I have an i donesian wife so have access to primary sources

The potato is indeed very similar to grain when it comes to means of production. This is not the case for rice.

 

[wobarch]

I might add an event for that. No promises though as my to-do list is already quite large

Yes please as much historic events as possible. Nothing adds more unique flavor like that. Cloves also perfect for unique feeling! Keep up great work @neondt

 

[Me_]

When the potato was introduced in Europe it hurt the economies of the classic wheat producing nations hard because the rest of the region ended up way less dependent on them. And potato and wheat are more dissimilar to rice and wheat.

Which is exactly the kind of thing the game cannot really simulate with a single trade good covering everything. The event about the Columbian Exchange hits the value of all Grain provinces including the provinces in Far East (and even the provinces in the Americas), instead of hitting mostly European producers.

 

[neondt]

This could be applied to a lot of countries to make them look 'proper' without having to design a new tag. I hope it becomes even more widespread.

As for more trade goods: Why do people even care that there are going to be more specific goods? As someone else said, the way trade was set up before, it was almost always the case that conquering the world was THE only reasonable way to dominate trade. This way value is placed on certain places in particular more than others much like IRL. IMO unique trade goods is way more interesting playing as a colonial power than a big "spice islands" trade bonus.

Will Ternate and Tidore still have to culture shift to form Malaya?

Nope, they're in the Malay group now.

 

[Cinnamon Ryce]

The map is looking great! And I may as well bring this up, but is that two Pontianaks I see?

 

[Canute VII]

Part of the appeal of this area in particular is always going to be in how it can be exploited for European trade. That's just part of the game. This also benefits the Maluku tags themselves and makes them more interesting and unique than the prior "spice islands" trade bonus imo.

All your arguments would still apply to a rice trade good as well.

 

[wobarch]

Great would be also some reaction event (chains) regarding later colonial nations .(smth. Like province selling for money or tech or monarch points, as teutonic order - bb event) , while refusing give Prestige and the demanding nation a claim

 

[IndigoRage]

All your arguments would still apply to a rice trade good as well.

I'm not for or against rice, really.

 

[TheDungen]

Look, ask any asian about their food preferences and they'll consistently opt for rice instead of bread. Even if living in the west for many years. I have an i donesian wife so have access to primary sources

The potato is indeed very similar to grain when it comes to means of production. This is not the case for rice.

If given the choice but in order to justify a trade good they have to be willing to spend money to make that choice and potentially a significant amount of money. How many of those people would still buy rice if it cost twice as much as what or potato? Some I bet but the vast majority of people, especially in this era are eating things like what rice and potatoes in order not to starve.

Doesn't matter if it's produced differently what matters is the function it serves. And in the case of all of these the function is cheap food that keeps the population from starving.

Which is exactly the kind of thing the game cannot really simulate with a single trade good covering everything. The event about the Columbian Exchange hits the value of all Grain provinces including the provinces in Far East (and even the provinces in the Americas), instead of hitting mostly European producers.

Some of the places hit by the introduction of the potato was wheat imports from Egypt and rice imports from Iran. Europe was importing a lot of food prior to the potato.
I've written a paper on the effect on society of the European adaptation of the potato, thought it was many years ago.