EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of July 2020

EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of July 2020

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Battlex

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And I thought the 1.30 Balkans map update DD would get touchy :p It's good to see people really into the update though. Is this period of Sumatran history really this murky, to excuse an Early Aceh?
Better to have an aceh at game start than an aceh that forms when you have the northern half of the island. And yeh history keeping seems to be crap this late somehow or all the sources we could use got lost
 

Alilolo

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Found this really good Indonesian historian and mapper Lazardi Wong Jogja

According to this map, Sultan Muzaffar Syah of Meukuta Alam conquered Dar Al-Kamal/Darul Kamal in 1480, founding the Aceh Sultanate.
In 1497, Sultan Ma'ruf Syah of Pedir subjugated Aceh and made it a vassal of Pedir, he was succeeded by his son Ahmad Syah. Around 1510-15, Sultan Ali Mughayat Syah ascended into the throne of Aceh.
A series of events led to a battle which ended Acehnese vassalization some time before Sultan Ma'ruf Syah of Pedir death in 1511. subsequent wars between Pedir and Aceh followed and in early 1520s, which saw Pedir subjugated under Aceh (alongside Daya aswell)

 

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Regarding the switch from Malaya to Nusantara, i disagree. Nusantara was a term originating from Old Javanese that means "Outer Islands" (Islands outside of Java). Just like Malaya was a Eurocentric term, Nusantara would also be a "Javacentric" term to refer to this realm.

I propose an alternative which is "Bawah Angin/Negeri Bawah Angin" (Below The Winds/Land Below The Winds). Referring to the extensive maritime trading which involves a lot of sailing. Along the monsoon winds.
It is how the Kingdoms traditionally referred themselves to foreigners (Atas Angin/Above The Winds). For example a letter from the Sultan of Tidore in 1599 to the King of Netherlands includes "..From The Land Below The Winds". Sultan Ageng Tirtayasa of Banten's letter to King Charles II to demand the increase of British trades in the "Land Below The Winds". The term can also be found in Hikayat Raja-Raja Pasai (Chronicles of Pasai Kings) and Sulalatus Salatin (Malay Annals), suggesting that it is a widely used term amongst Malay Kingdoms to refer themselves to outsiders.

I think Nusantara would only make sense if it was formed by Majapahit itself. While Bawah Angin/Negeri Bawah Angin could be used if formed by another Malay state.



Side Note:
"Negeri Bawah Angin" itself is in the language of Malay, which is the Lingua Franca of the region. If it's not too much work, maybe it could be translated to different names according to which state (and their language) formed it. For example if Aceh formed Malaya, it would be named something like "Nanggroe Yub Angen".
 
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Why Paradox always glosses over the philippines??? philippines is also part of southeast asia. how in the world is this out of scope???
if you guys don't read the steam dev diary post comments, why even post it there and ask for our comments there? if you guys did not even read the comments in the steam dev diary post, you guys just missed a load of consumer feedback.
there were so many suggestions about the philippines, yet you guys gloss over it and say that we asked more for ayutthaya and majapahit.

There's still so much to improve there like better province delineations and the country is so ethnically diverse to just name it all as "Filipino" when that term only came in during spanish colonial period as originally what they called the local born pure spaniards. the state of Pangasinan should have been called Caboloan and only the province named as Pangasinan. the entire region where Pampanga where the Kapampangan people were historically at is just entirely glossed over as Tondo when Tondo was just realistically next to Maynila in the pasig river. Also, where is Ma-i and the state of Taytay and the flag of Sulu should be the one available online already, the black and white 18th century sulu sultanate flag:


This one is plenty better and more historically accurate than whatever it is the game had that was invented before based on some descriptions they mustve read about.

Also, will the seas within and around the Philippines, also be inland seas? The moro muslim states like sulu and maguindanao and lanao all did pirating ventures too, which is why there is historical records in spanish colonial times of taxation to fund navies to protect the waters. There are chinese records too of visayans pirating chinese waters near Fujian around Quanzhou areas. the island of Buglas/Negros is also linguistically divided in half by Hiligaynon and Cebuano speakers, but the game just shows Madyas to own all of it. Also, the island of Cebu and Bohol are realistically separate but they are combined in the game when these two islands have their own distinct histories. Cebu used to be originally named as "Sugbo" before the Spaniards came. Also, will there be a unit pack for philippine states? cuz they wouldnt all match the muslim-hindu type attire that indonesian states had. throughout colonial times, they even had uniforms that looked almost like what the infantries in japan had, except of course with a southeast asian flare. those kind of attire were not just there because of the spaniards, besides the attires from the 1800s. the salacot is a native filipino hat that is even part of the legends in the hinilawod on how madyas got the island of panay. Also, the name Laguna is from Spanish. Mindoro is also possibly from Spanish. the main precolonial settlements around Laguna were places like Bai and where modern quezon province is now, was where Tayabas was. Mindoro used to have an old settlement too called Mait where it is possibly where Ma-i was if it were not actually Maynila. If you guys plan to make new better flags for philippine states since a lot of them I know where just invented by the game, it would be better to instead use Baybayin into the design rather than using some Sun burst designs since the Sun Sol de Mayo design came from the Americas in Spanish revolutionary times and those baybayin scripts are the ones with actual historical artifact evidences from precolonial period mentioning those states like Tondo as "Tundun" in baybayin characters. Recently in the past years, they actually found Monreal stones with baybayin script writing in a visayan language.

Also if Philippines can be formable, i think it would be much better to have the option to name the new unified state, just like how this dev diary discussed about the naming of Nusantara / Malaya / Srivijaya / Majapahit. I think there should be a choice to name a unified philippine state with either the original unifying state or to name it as either Philippines or Maharlika or Malaya or Maphilindo or Luzviminda or whatever it is the player can decide to use because these names are the most plausible that were historically proposed. historically, spanish colonial philippines were intense rivals with dutch colonial indonesia since spanish manila was always butting heads with dutch batavia and british malacca. I think there would be a good case of rivalry with a unified nusantara or malaya against a rival unified philippines / maharlika / luzviminda to contest for a unified malaya or maphilindo. "malaya" in filipino is indeed both an adjective or a noun to mean "free/the free ones"

Also, can u guys finally at least add the Kingdom of Middag/Datu/Dadu in central Taiwan. they are ethnically and linguistically related to the states of the Philippines and Indonesia too as ancient forebears of the Malay world. the name of their state is also the same cognate with the title of lords used in philippines, malaysia, and indonesia, that being Datu/Dato/Datuk.
 
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Battlex

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Why Paradox always glosses over the philippines??? philippines is also part of southeast asia. how in the world is this out of scope???
if you guys don't read the steam dev diary post comments, why even post it there and ask for our comments there? if you guys did not even read the comments in the steam dev diary post, you guys just missed a load of consumer feedback.
there were so many suggestions about the philippines, yet you guys gloss over it and say that we asked more for ayutthaya and majapahit.

There's still so much to improve there like better province delineations and the country is so ethnically diverse to just name it all as "Filipino" when that term only came in during spanish colonial period as originally what they called the local born pure spaniards. the state of Pangasinan should have been called Caboloan and only the province named as Pangasinan. the entire region where Pampanga where the Kapampangan people were historically at is just entirely glossed over as Tondo when Tondo was just realistically next to Maynila in the pasig river. Also, where is Ma-i and the state of Taytay and the flag of Sulu should be the one available online already, the black and white 18th century sulu sultanate flag:


This one is plenty better and more historically accurate than whatever it is the game had that was invented before based on some descriptions they mustve read about.

Also, will the seas within and around the Philippines, also be inland seas? The moro muslim states like sulu and maguindanao and lanao all did pirating ventures too, which is why there is historical records in spanish colonial times of taxation to fund navies to protect the waters. There are chinese records too of visayans pirating chinese waters near Fujian around Quanzhou areas. the island of Buglas/Negros is also linguistically divided in half by Hiligaynon and Cebuano speakers, but the game just shows Madyas to own all of it. Also, the island of Cebu and Bohol are realistically separate but they are combined in the game when these two islands have their own distinct histories. Cebu used to be originally named as "Sugbo" before the Spaniards came. Also, will there be a unit pack for philippine states? cuz they wouldnt all match the muslim-hindu type attire that indonesian states had. throughout colonial times, they even had uniforms that looked almost like what the infantries in japan had, except of course with a southeast asian flare. those kind of attire were not just there because of the spaniards, besides the attires from the 1800s. the salacot is a native filipino hat that is even part of the legends in the hinilawod on how madyas got the island of panay. Also, the name Laguna is from Spanish. Mindoro is also possibly from Spanish. the main precolonial settlements around Laguna were places like Bai and where modern quezon province is now, was where Tayabas was. Mindoro used to have an old settlement too called Mait where it is possibly where Ma-i was if it were not actually Maynila. If you guys plan to make new better flags for philippine states since a lot of them I know where just invented by the game, it would be better to instead use Baybayin into the design rather than using some Sun burst designs since the Sun Sol de Mayo design came from the Americas in Spanish revolutionary times and those baybayin scripts are the ones with actual historical artifact evidences from precolonial period mentioning those states like Tondo as "Tundun" in baybayin characters. Recently in the past years, they actually found Monreal stones with baybayin script writing in a visayan language.

Also if Philippines can be formable, i think it would be much better to have the option to name the new unified state, just like how this dev diary discussed about the naming of Nusantara / Malaya / Srivijaya / Majapahit. I think there should be a choice to name a unified philippine state with either the original unifying state or to name it as either Philippines or Maharlika or Malaya or Maphilindo or Luzviminda or whatever it is the player can decide to use because these names are the most plausible that were historically proposed. historically, spanish colonial philippines were intense rivals with dutch colonial indonesia since spanish manila was always butting heads with dutch batavia and british malacca. I think there would be a good case of rivalry with a unified nusantara or malaya against a rival unified philippines / maharlika / luzviminda to contest for a unified malaya or maphilindo. "malaya" in filipino is indeed both an adjective or a noun to mean "free/the free ones"

Also, can u guys finally at least add the Kingdom of Middag/Datu/Dadu in central Taiwan. they are ethnically and linguistically related to the states of the Philippines and Indonesia too as ancient forebears of the Malay world. the name of their state is also the same cognate with the title of lords used in philippines, malaysia, and indonesia, that being Datu/Dato/Datuk.
It'll come soon dude, just wait. Philippines probably will get dynamic naming but probably not dynasty dependant like with Svryija
 

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Why Paradox always glosses over the philippines??? philippines is also part of southeast asia. how in the world is this out of scope???
if you guys don't read the steam dev diary post comments, why even post it there and ask for our comments there? if you guys did not even read the comments in the steam dev diary post, you guys just missed a load of consumer feedback.
there were so many suggestions about the philippines, yet you guys gloss over it and say that we asked more for ayutthaya and majapahit.

There's still so much to improve there like better province delineations and the country is so ethnically diverse to just name it all as "Filipino" when that term only came in during spanish colonial period as originally what they called the local born pure spaniards. the state of Pangasinan should have been called Caboloan and only the province named as Pangasinan. the entire region where Pampanga where the Kapampangan people were historically at is just entirely glossed over as Tondo when Tondo was just realistically next to Maynila in the pasig river. Also, where is Ma-i and the state of Taytay and the flag of Sulu should be the one available online already, the black and white 18th century sulu sultanate flag:


This one is plenty better and more historically accurate than whatever it is the game had that was invented before based on some descriptions they mustve read about.

Also, will the seas within and around the Philippines, also be inland seas? The moro muslim states like sulu and maguindanao and lanao all did pirating ventures too, which is why there is historical records in spanish colonial times of taxation to fund navies to protect the waters. There are chinese records too of visayans pirating chinese waters near Fujian around Quanzhou areas. the island of Buglas/Negros is also linguistically divided in half by Hiligaynon and Cebuano speakers, but the game just shows Madyas to own all of it. Also, the island of Cebu and Bohol are realistically separate but they are combined in the game when these two islands have their own distinct histories. Cebu used to be originally named as "Sugbo" before the Spaniards came. Also, will there be a unit pack for philippine states? cuz they wouldnt all match the muslim-hindu type attire that indonesian states had. throughout colonial times, they even had uniforms that looked almost like what the infantries in japan had, except of course with a southeast asian flare. those kind of attire were not just there because of the spaniards, besides the attires from the 1800s. the salacot is a native filipino hat that is even part of the legends in the hinilawod on how madyas got the island of panay. Also, the name Laguna is from Spanish. Mindoro is also possibly from Spanish. the main precolonial settlements around Laguna were places like Bai and where modern quezon province is now, was where Tayabas was. Mindoro used to have an old settlement too called Mait where it is possibly where Ma-i was if it were not actually Maynila. If you guys plan to make new better flags for philippine states since a lot of them I know where just invented by the game, it would be better to instead use Baybayin into the design rather than using some Sun burst designs since the Sun Sol de Mayo design came from the Americas in Spanish revolutionary times and those baybayin scripts are the ones with actual historical artifact evidences from precolonial period mentioning those states like Tondo as "Tundun" in baybayin characters. Recently in the past years, they actually found Monreal stones with baybayin script writing in a visayan language.

Also if Philippines can be formable, i think it would be much better to have the option to name the new unified state, just like how this dev diary discussed about the naming of Nusantara / Malaya / Srivijaya / Majapahit. I think there should be a choice to name a unified philippine state with either the original unifying state or to name it as either Philippines or Maharlika or Malaya or Maphilindo or Luzviminda or whatever it is the player can decide to use because these names are the most plausible that were historically proposed. historically, spanish colonial philippines were intense rivals with dutch colonial indonesia since spanish manila was always butting heads with dutch batavia and british malacca. I think there would be a good case of rivalry with a unified nusantara or malaya against a rival unified philippines / maharlika / luzviminda to contest for a unified malaya or maphilindo. "malaya" in filipino is indeed both an adjective or a noun to mean "free/the free ones"

Also, can u guys finally at least add the Kingdom of Middag/Datu/Dadu in central Taiwan. they are ethnically and linguistically related to the states of the Philippines and Indonesia too as ancient forebears of the Malay world. the name of their state is also the same cognate with the title of lords used in philippines, malaysia, and indonesia, that being Datu/Dato/Datuk.
Calm down if you don't want to get ignored.
 
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Sulu should have a mission tree where they try to avenge themselves against Majapahit, Champa and Brunei.

Check the "Sultanate of Sulu" article in wikipedia.

Likewise either or both Tondo and Maynila can take a cue from this article about the Lucoes (People from Luzon) and have a mission tree of allying or controlling trade in Malacca, Brunei and intervening in the Burmese-Siamese wars.

Check the article "Lucoes" in wikipedia.

Just suggesting this since the Philippines mission trees are bland and generic.
 

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Will Sulu, Maguindanao, and Lanao get their own Bangsamoro culture separate from Filipino, or at least shift to Bornean? This has bugged me as a Bangsamoro for a while. We're culturally closer to Brunei than the Philippines.

Also, I am of the belief Sulu and Manila should be vassals of Brunei at some point. Sulu should be Brunei's vassal at the 1444 start, and get Manila at around 1500. Brunei should lose them as vassals around June 1578, which is the end of the Castillian War or the Spanish Expedition to Brunei. Its an event that had put a stop to rapid Bruneian expansion, and set the Bruneian Empire onto a stage of slow decline.
Well Bangsamoro and Bisaya may have some overlap, for example the people of the Sulu Sultanate speak a language that is classified as under the Visayan subgroup of languages, afterall Tausug is a Visayan language and they are descended from Visayan speaking Butuan migrants who converted from Hinduism to Islam, also the people of the Kedatuan of Dapitan in Bohol trace their origins to animist Lanao which they split off from, whereas their Lanao ancestors accepted Islam they remained Animist in Bohol where they migrated too. They eventually backmigrated to Mindanao after Dapitan in Bohol was destroyed by the Sultanate of Ternate.
 

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Well Bangsamoro and Bisaya may have some overlap, for example the people of the Sulu Sultanate speak a language that is classified as under the Visayan subgroup of languages, afterall Tausug is a Visayan language and they are descended from Visayan speaking Butuan migrants who converted from Hinduism to Islam, also the people of the Kedatuan of Dapitan in Bohol trace their origins to animist Lanao which they split off from, whereas their Lanao ancestors accepted Islam they remained Animist in Bohol where they migrated too. They eventually backmigrated to Mindanao after Dapitan in Bohol was destroyed by the Sultanate of Ternate.
Even still, we are distinct from the Tagalogs of Luzon.
 

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Also if Philippines can be formable, i think it would be much better to have the option to name the new unified state, just like how this dev diary discussed about the naming of Nusantara / Malaya / Srivijaya / Majapahit. I think there should be a choice to name a unified philippine state with either the original unifying state or to name it as either Philippines or Maharlika or Malaya or Maphilindo or Luzviminda or whatever it is the player can decide to use because these names are the most plausible that were historically proposed. historically, spanish colonial philippines were intense rivals with dutch colonial indonesia since spanish manila was always butting heads with dutch batavia and british malacca. I think there would be a good case of rivalry with a unified nusantara or malaya against a rival unified philippines / maharlika / luzviminda to contest for a unified malaya or maphilindo. "malaya" in filipino is indeed both an adjective or a noun to mean "free/the free ones"
Philippines is a big no. Spanish name. Maharlika is also entirely made up. There is no Maharlika nation. Maphilindo and Luzviminda were proposed in the 20th Century. Also Philippines has no distinct unified culture, so a united Philippine nation makes no sense in the first place. The only real way I see this working is if Southeast Asia became a colonial region, and Philippines become a formable nation by colonies in well, the Philippines.
 
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Even still, we are distinct from the Tagalogs of Luzon.
Well even some parts of Luzon were already Islamised. Maynila was one, Tondo however was not since there was a rivalry between Maynila's Rajah Matanda the grandson of the Bruneian Sultan and his cousin Lakandula who was more beholden to native Animist beliefs.

Question lang.

Do you consider precolonial Tagalogs as part of Bangsamoro? The Spanish called the Kapamampangans and Tagalogs Moros. Rajah Ache or Rajah Matanda was a grandson of the Bruneian Sultan and the Tarik Suleyman of Macabebe of the Kapampangans sported a Muslim name since Tarik is Arabic for to strike and Suleyman is the Arabic of Solomon.

I also read conflicting reports about the Rajah of Butuan. According Wiki...

.

Rajah Siagu of Butuan was Hindu and a cousin of the Rajah of Cebu

But then again I read reports that said that a certain Sultan of Lanao considered the Butuanon his brother Sultan.

What are Butuanons really, are they Hindu allies of Cebu or Muslim allies of Lanao? Also, where did they get their Hindu culture from, from their Tausug Visayan speaking Sulu cousins who interacted with then Hindu Champa or with Majapahit? Certainly there are records of Majapahit conquering Sulu (Called Solot) in the Nagarakretagama (History of Indonesia as stated by Maharajah Hayam Wuruk) Maynila (Selurong) as well was under Majapahit but Butuan was not mentioned as a part of Majapahit territory.

So are formerly Muslim Tagalogs and Kapampangans Bangsamoro too? What about the Butuanons? Maybe there should be an Islamic Reconquista of Maynila and make it Muslim again hahaha.
 
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