EU4 - Development Diary - 13th of August 2019

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mechanical_Critter

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No, can you speak? "lol"

Well you see, -100% missionary strength isn't a modifier that says 'wew, your missionary strength is lowered by X amount'. It says 'you cannot convert'. It might as well be -20 or -50 or -75 or -1000 it would serve exactly the same purpose: a placeholder for denying missionary conversion. It's not balanced around the actual number displayed which is entirely irrelevant.

So suggesting to average around that number would be similar, to, for instance, suggest to average diplomatic stuff with things that give -1000 reasons (which is typically what is used when an action is forbidden). It's idiotic.
 

master_kong

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Well you see, -100% missionary strength isn't a modifier that says 'wew, your missionary strength is lowered by X amount'. It says 'you cannot convert'. It might as well be -20 or -50 or -75 or -1000 it would serve exactly the same purpose: a placeholder for denying missionary conversion. It's not balanced around the actual number displayed which is entirely irrelevant.

So suggesting to average around that number would be similar, to, for instance, suggest to average diplomatic stuff with things that give -1000 reasons (which is typically what is used when an action is forbidden). It's idiotic.
Thing is it will be depend on the estate influence. So -%100 missionary strength is when the influence is %100. And dhimmi influence tend to be much lower than other estates by design. You can even make them stay at 0 influence without any real drawback. So I don't see any problem with that.

And again the modifier most likely will be global_heathen_missionary_strength, heretics shouldn't be effected.
 

dD_ShockTrooper

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Thing is it will be depend on the estate influence. So -%100 missionary strength is when the influence is %100. And dhimmi influence tend to be much lower than other estates by design. You can even make them stay at 0 influence without any real drawback. So I don't see any problem with that.

And again the modifier most likely will be global_heathen_missionary_strength, heretics shouldn't be effected.
That moment when you accidentally give Dhimmi 3% of your land and now the entire empire is immune to missionaries.
 

Chetos25

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Hi, noobish player here -- made an account just to express an idea of mine.

What if this whole new estate rework includes an option that allows you to either "incorporate" or "reject" new states that correspond to newly conquered land, just like native policies? e.g Three token policies come to my mind right now:
  • Assimilate Estates: Allows for instant integration (and access to provileges) of a certain estate as soon as the newly conquered land is annexed/cored. Influence would be calculated according to the [(development of provinces that allow for said estate)/(total development)]. The downside of this would be, of course, the other estates taking a lesser chunk of the pie, which would make them mad right away.
  • Promise Privileges: After annexation, new estates will be recognized but start without any influence; rather, they will begin at influence 0, but as time goes by they will expect to have a bigger influence/certain privileges (what they ultimately expect may be proportional or similar to the relative influence/privileges they held in the conquered nation). This would allow for a much more gradual integration of said estate, which could be meaningful if you want a specific benefit out of them in the long run but don't wanna anger the other guys right away.
  • *token estate rejection name*: Basically this option doesn't recognize any of the estates in newly conquered land, giving them 0% influence without gradual growth. The only interaction this would allow for would be basically "Dissolve estate", whose function should be pretty clear as it would kill it for the rest of your game in your country (might cost you some mana to do so, because if it stays alive then maybe some event may trigger it and make it active with a certain influence level). This could be the default option and probably the other two may be unlocked through humanist ideas or a certain reform/tech level.
As another user said, I like that you guys are focusing on the internal politics aspect of the game while getting rid of the previous mechanics, which felt kinda forced sometimes as if you needed to check a box after doing some clicks every 15-20 years or so. Hopefully you can still give us a way of obtaining decent leaders in 1444 haha :p

ALSO, all of those [redacted] options... Perhaps it has something to do with the current mercenaries rework? Some new game mechanic we haven't been introduced to? :eek:
 

Weyird

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With regards to the question: Why give any power to the Estates, if taking it away gives Absolutism?

If the Devs are determined to keep the corruption from too many territories in the game, maybe giving lots of power to Estates is one way to reduce how much corruption you get from too many territories. makes sense, don't you think? Smaller nations find it a lot easier to be ruled directly, while larger nations need some delegation.
 

Trytols

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istria.png


My suggestion for an istrian gulf if paradox will change it's shape in next patch.
 

Schwarzer Ritter

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Once you grow to a certain size, you wont have much use of these priviledges. You can have +5 advisors running all the time, endless money and manpower. Absolutism is much more important there and there is no rebellious army you cant destroy when you've gotten big. I think the Estates should still be relevant and a force to be reconned with, even in the lategame when you might be a massive Ottoman empire spanning from Vienna to India.
 

Silesian Burd

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Once you grow to a certain size, you wont have much use of these priviledges. You can have +5 advisors running all the time, endless money and manpower. Absolutism is much more important there and there is no rebellious army you cant destroy when you've gotten big. I think the Estates should still be relevant and a force to be reconned with, even in the lategame when you might be a massive Ottoman empire spanning from Vienna to India.
That's just a massive balancing issue with EU4's late game in general.

Perhaps adjusting provinces' autonomy should lead to estates getting more land. I really, really don't like how they're decoupling land from province, but it would at least allow for them to say that the estates have minor holdings or stakes in various parts of your realm, which would do a lot to make provinces seem like they're more than just empty tiles.
 

Vasili

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how about an ai fix update. like fixing ai going past forts and seeing past fog of war
 

Nassau

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I have always ignored the estate mechanics while playing EU4. When none of them have any lands, they tend to be equally powerfull.
 

Caspian Mortis

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'Crown Land' doesn't make much sense for republics, since they have no crown or monarch but an elected head of state.

Will it be called something else for republics? State-owned land maybe?
 

DonKiszon

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Finally something is done with the estates. They were kind of boring at annoying with their events
 

Ark Tolei

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This seems, on its face, like a much more interesting way of handling estates than what is currently implemented. There are definitely fun aspects of current estate design (I was enjoying the gameplay aspect of slowly taking all the centers of trade away from Qinwang and giving them to the Shangbang as Ming) but generally the more fun you're having with estates, the less optimal your estate play actually is. It would have almost certainly been more optimal to not juggle at all, and instead just eat the rebels to steal it all immediately.

Having 20 year cooldowns be changed into long term policies is a great idea, and I like the idea of crown land consolidation being a mid-late game thing as administrative tech improves, and the government becomes better capable of administrating things themselves, rather than letting the estates take their cut.

One hope that I have for this change, is that powerful estates will have legitimate value, and the transition to absolutism, while valuable in the long term, will have significant costs associated with it. Right now, maxing out absolutism as quickly as possible is pretty much nothing but good. Having the bonuses from absolutism functionally replace the bonuses from estates has the potential to make for very different playstyles, each with their own benefits, if the bonuses from estates are sufficiently powerful. This is especially true if you can use your loyal estates to influence disloyal estates in other nations for some benefit to yourself, or problem for your enemies.

One thing to consider is the possibility of creating new estates for your lands that weren't historically relevant to your culture/religion, but are related to your empire's current power structure. If you have a large, professional standing army it doesn't really make much sense for that standing army to be represented by the nobles, because nobles fundamentally give you temporary levies, and those levies are generally run by their idiot sons. Having the military itself start to supplant the nobility as professionalism rises might be an interesting mechanic.

I don't know that such a thing would be possible to implement with the current system, but if the new system is designed from the ground up with estates not being hard locked to religion/culture, you'll be able to do a ton with them in the future, even if you don't decide to implement such things immediately.

Another obvious example is for a christian nation to be able to come up with an estate similar structurally to the Dhimmi if they have a bunch of heathens around who aren't being actively oppressed. Never happened historically as far as I'm aware, but there's no real reason why it couldn't have under the correct circumstances.
 

Winddbourne

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I like the idea of estates and absolutism being opposing ways of running things that support different playstyles. I fully believe that the french could centralize and become an absolutist state even earlier than they did in the real world . . . a smaller country might have an even easier time centralizing. But the gigantic country of Russia? No way . . . tie it in somehow with shipping/trade range, also perhaps infrastructure.

If you want to paint the map then you're going to have to place your trust in estates that can run distant regions and accept them taking a bit of the wealth for themselves. Alternately if your empire is all coastal provinces thenl, maybe I can see you centralizing things pretty easily and taking all the taxes and trade right into your national treasury. If you get the balance right small tightly centralized and highly developed provinces will be able to complete (tall play style) with sprawling feudal empires with powerful estates who get much less per province but just have so much land it doesn't matter (wide play-style).

That sounds a lot more interesting than the current general rule of thumb that playing tall is always better.