• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 12th of January 2021

After a few weeks without Dev Diaries, I am happy to present you a new one. I hope you all had a great time during them!

When I joined Paradox in October, Polynesia was not included in this Expansion. Considering it was the last part of the Earth without representation, I thought it would be nice to have some work done on it, so I proposed some ideas that I am happy to share with you all.

But, before I start, I would like to thank @Meka66 for his help and work that has greatly inspired me for this project.

THE MAP
The map has been slightly changed, since the basic needed setup was already there. However, in order to go a bit deeper, a few provinces have been added here and there. Do note that the flags are still a placeholder and not the final result.

Starting with Fiji, the archipelago has been divided in three provinces: one for each big island (Viti Levu and Vanua Levu) and a third one for the Lau archipelago that had a great influence from Tonga. Each province has a country inhabiting it, which is an abstraction of the many clans that populated each island. Should you unite them all under your banner, you will be able to form Viti.

Fiji Archipelago.png

[Fiji Archipelago and TAGs]​

In New Zealand a new province has been added in North Island which has the most populated one by the Maori people. The number of countries, though, goes up to 7. Six of them (Mataatua, Tainui, Takitimu, Taranaki, Te Arawa and Te Tai Tokerau) are in the Northern Island and Waitaha is in the Southern One. As in the case of Fiji, a Maori country that manages to unite the area is able to form Aotearoa.

New Zealand Archipelago.png

[New Zealand Archipelago and TAGs]​

Finally, the greatest transformation has been done in the Hawaiian Archipelago, that has gone from one province to four. Each province has their own country attached (Hawai’i, Kaua’i, Maui and O’ahu). As in the other cases, there is a formable for the unifiers of the islands.

Hawaii Archipelago.png

[Hawaii Archipelago and TAGs]​

A Polynesian rework could not let the two most important countries out: Samoa and Tonga.

Samoa & Tonga Archipelago.png

[Samoan and Tongan Archipelagos and TAGs]​

THE MISSIONS
As in the case of the Americas, the mission tree consists of a general common mission tree for every country and some specific missions for each country or group of them.

Tongan Mission Tree.png

[Tonga Mission Tree]
(Notice that all icons are still placeholders)​

Tonga is probably the most important TAG during this period. Despite the fact that the Tongan Empire is no more, a skillful player could rebuild it, bringing not only the neighboring islands under the control of Tongatapu, but go even further.

Some highlights of this tree include:
  • Bringing both Fiji and Samoa under your control again.
  • Recovering the Tongan Empire.
  • Expand even further.

Samoan Mission Tree.png

[Samoan Mission Tree]
(Notice that all icons are still placeholders).​

If Tonga was the political power during the period, Samoa was the cultural one. Most of the Pacific was colonized from there and from there were most of the traditions that ruled the lives of the Polynesians.

Some highlights of this tree include:
  • Recover the place as the cultural center.
  • Challenge Tonga.
  • Replace Tonga as the main power in the Pacific.

In order to not spoil the surprise, I will let you discover what the missions for the Maori the Fijian and the Hawaiian countries consist of.

THE NATIONAL IDEAS
Adding new TAGs would not be the same if they were not accompanied by their National Ideas.

Starting with the Fijians TAGs, their warring nature brought them a reputation of ruthless combatants, feared by everyone. But Fijians were also deeply religious people and famous shipbuilding artisans. All these things are represented in their National Ideas, making them a rather expansionist set.

Code:
fijian_ideas = {
    start = {
        light_ship_power = 0.1
        naval_attrition = -0.1
    }
  
    bonus = {
        ae_impact = -0.2
    }
  
    trigger = {
        OR = {
            tag = LAI
            tag = VIL
            #TODO: tag = VIT
            tag = VNL
        }
    }
    free = yes
  
    fijian_crossroad = {
        num_accepted_cultures = 2
    }
    fijian_degel = {
        range = 0.1
        global_ship_trade_power = 0.1
    }
    fijian_conjoined = {
        global_missionary_strength = 0.02
    }
    fijian_waqa = {
        prestige_from_naval = 0.4
    }
    fijian_cannibal = {
        army_tradition_from_battle = 0.25
        prestige_from_land = 0.4
    }
    fijian_kai = {
        land_attrition = -0.25
    }
    fijian_confederacy = {
        global_tax_modifier = 0.05
        production_efficiency = 0.05
    }
}
[Fijian National Ideas]​

As in the case of the Fijians, the Maori are famed for their bravery and constant warfare. Their set of ideas is focused on land combat, without disregarding ways to keep the land around a strong leader.

Code:
maori_ideas = {
    start = {
        global_regiment_recruit_speed = -0.10
        harsh_treatment_cost = -0.20
    }
  
    bonus = {
        prestige = 1
    }
  
    trigger = {
        primary_culture = maori
    }
    free = yes
  
    sons_of_kupe = {
        global_sailors_modifier = 0.10
        range = 0.10
    }
    kaikiakitanga = {
        tolerance_own = 1
    }
    kaumatua = {
        stability_cost_modifier = -0.20
    }
    kapa_haka = {
        land_morale = 0.10
    }
    pa_defence = {
        fort_maintenance_modifier = -0.10
    }
    te_moko = {
        leader_land_shock = 1
    }
    maori_king = {
        core_creation = -0.10
        legitimacy = 1
    }
}
[Maori National Ideas]​

As with the missions, we’d better not spoil the surprise by showing everything, am I right? I have a challenge for those that love them: try a world conquest with a Polynesian TAG! There are a couple of things in this area that could help you in that adventure. ;)

THE EVENTS
Events are one of the parts I like the most. While not as much time as I would have liked has been available, I have added more than 40 events to the area, including general events, specific Country events and even a few Easter eggs that I hope you can find and enjoy!

Fiji Event.png

Practice is what makes you a good warrior, after all.
(Notice that all pictures are still placeholders).

Hawaii Event.png

This event can be very nasty if you are in a very bad shape.
(Notice that all pictures are still placeholders).

Samoan Event.png

As Samoa, you will be given the choice to reform your society a bit or go on with the traditions with every ruler.
(Notice that all pictures are still placeholders).​

THE EXTRAS
There are a few things that have been added in order to create a bigger sense of immersion.

Maori culture has been created, separated from the main Polynesian branch. By the start of the game, the Maori were abandoning the Archaic Maori Period and entering a transformation one. The Iwi became more sedentary and their once pacific nature became more warlike as competition for resources becomes more central. New traditions had evolved by this time that justifies separating them from their islander cousins.

A new Polynesian technology group has been created. This technology group is between that of the Mesoamericans and the North Americans in penalty, but starts at tech 2.

Most Estates have been renamed to their proper versions to increase the flavor.

And some extra surprises here and there.

For now this is all. We still have lots of things to show, so just be patient and enjoy the time in between, everything will come!
 
Last edited:
  • 173Like
  • 80Love
  • 56
  • 15
  • 10
Reactions:
"Did the impossible"
Lmao
Let me have a quick look here at the "stone age" natives:

Imagine if they had established kingdoms there. /s

Imagine spending one year in the sea, crossing 24000 miles of ocean, facing one of the most powerfull empires of the age, and the best achievement you have is facing natives... It proves spot on Bandua's argument.
And I'm not even including Portuguese Mamluk War, which you can read a bit here on how the Portuguese contributed to the ottoman takeover:

And yet again I'm not mentioning the conflicts with the already established kingdoms in India like for example, my favourite:
There should definitely be more hostile interaction between AI Portugal and the Muslim powers when Portugal reaches the Indian Ocean. Trade conflict CBs, embargoes, maybe even rivalries, with Venice meddling in between. This is completely absent from the game and was very important at the time.
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
but you didn't look exactly what was beyond Portugal/Spanish/France/UK ,they were Christian Nations, and the native which they conquered and invaded were viewed as Pagans and by that again why they got displeasure and could not believe that native nation from stone age could sail to island on the mid of pacific.

The Viking on the other side conquered and invaded Christian Kingdoms because that same Christian Kingdoms were invading Pagan territory and destroying their culture.
So Pagan Good, Christian Bad?
Based. I can get behind that.

I was going to mention how actually Portugal didn't fight "stone age pagan natives", but mostly well established Islamic empires (Also the ones beggining hostilies mind you) which were technologically on pair and already had gunpowder, but Sete got that covered.

Instead i'm drawing attention to Lithuania and the Northern crusades, the last Pagan realm in Europe, invaded time and time again by ruthless foes who wanted to see their way of life wiped from this Earth.
Its all the epicness of the Crusades AND Vikings combined, and yet...

Actually, i'm not drawing attention to anything. I fell like i've made my point clear and already derailed this thread enough.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
@Bandua_of_Gallaecia Pagan religions is not the same as Abraham religion, I made that really clear in my post.


For Catholics since they struggle against Muslim Nations, they saw Islam as Heresy.
And Paganism were viewed as inferior form of faith, even compared to Islam that is the same branch as Christians religions. And by that any type of nation, tribe, clan, kingdom with pagan belief were viewed with displeasure and inferiority. The Islam applied the same actions to Pagans as Christians Nations did.
 
As far as Eu4 is concerned, Catholics see all Muslims as Heathens not Heretics.
Heretics would be Protestants or Orthodox.
@Bandua_of_Gallaecia

EU4 is a game, which I consider good to History and has some fidelity to the real facts, but something could be applied erroneous. I think the purpose is make people look and learn more about the history.

Abrahamic Religions were who share the same line of doctrines established by the Patriarch Abraham, the Christian saw Jesus as the son and the last Prophet send by God.
The Muslim don't see Jesus as son of god and believe that Mohammed as the last prophet of god, but not son.

As you can see they all believe in One same God. But they don't accept each other interpretation and prophets. ( Was more a Religious War with political affairs than Heathens)
Protestants or Orthodox started when some biblical interpretations of Catholicism were not correctly with the practical actions of the Church, who should follow the laws of the bible. This is a internal problem of the Christian Church since their foundation.

The heathens or Pagans is polytheist. Which is totally different from monotheism. It could be applied to other monotheism religion that is different from Abraham Religion
 
  • 1
Reactions:
@Bandua_of_Gallaecia

EU4 is a game, which I consider good to History and has some fidelity to the real facts, but something could be applied erroneous. I think the purpose is make people look and learn more about the history.

Abrahamic Religions were who share the same line of doctrines established by the Patriarch Abraham, the Christian saw Jesus as the son and the last Prophet send by God.
The Muslim don't see Jesus as son of god and believe that Mohammed as the last prophet of god, but not son.

As you can see they all believe in One same God. But they don't accept each other interpretation and prophets. ( Was more a Religious War with political affairs than Heathens)
Protestants or Orthodox started when some biblical interpretations of Catholicism were not correctly with the practical actions of the Church, who should follow the laws of the bible. This is a internal problem of the Christian Church since their foundation.

The heathens or Pagans is polytheist. Which is totally different from monotheism. It could be applied to other monotheism religion that is different from Abraham Religion

Heathen comes from the Old English hæðen which in turn comes from Old Norse heiðinn which most likely is from the Old Gothic and Wulfila's Bible where a related worth was used for "Gentile". The meaning in the early Middle Ages was very consistently "neither Christian nor Jewish". The distinction between heretic and heathen was not extant in the early Middles Ages. Plenty of monotheists (e.g. Yazadis, Mandeans, Manicheans, etc.) were held to be heathen and many of those were folks who came out of the Abrahamic tradition.

Earlier in the Middle Ages Mohammed was portrayed as an heresiarch, originating a new false religion. By the late Middle Ages he was often portrayed as being a straight up "pagan" god whom his followers worship (e.g. Song of Roland). A whole false demonic pantheon was ascribed to Muslims by some Christian writers of the late middle ages (e.g. Termagant, Apollyon, Baphomet, Machmet).

The earliest Christians who knew about Mohammed and left writings viewed him as a heathen because at the time, heathens included everyone but Jews, Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, and maybe some of the Oriental Orthodox as heathens. Later writers did adopt a more modern conception of "heathen", but by that point the popular Christian understanding of Muslims is that they were some crypto polytheistic religion and heathens as we understand it. This was, of course more pronounced in the West with a bunch of odd exceptions in the East (e.g. Anatolian Christians were more likely to talk about heresiarchy while Russian Christians were more likely to discuss heathenry).

Long story short is that heathen had nothing to do with the number of gods (all the Christian writers viewed Zoroastrians as heathen from the start) and everything to do with rejecting the authority of both the Old and New Testaments. In time, more nuance developed for folks who rejected some of canonical books (e.g. Luther rejected Esther and James as cannonical) or parts thereof, but in the main Muslims rejected the whole of the New Testament (as perceived by Christians) and wide swathes of the Old Testament but by that point in time Christian beliefs about Muslims placed the latter heavily into the heathen camp.

***Yes, the late Middle Age view of Muslims by Christians was largely based on false, fictional accounts of Muslim beliefs, that was still the dominant understanding. Much how the dominant pagan Roman understanding of Christians was as atheists.***
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
Good, next patch will be focused on SE Asia & Polynesia.
And, I also expect Ryukyu islands to be improved.

Here's my suggestion to improve Ryukyu.
- For 1.31 patch - The Ryukyu Islands


And not only the Ryukyus, but also rest parts of whole Japan need further improvements. v1.24 & v1.29 patches are not enough!
Plus, I see that you always forgot really important things to improve naval units.
- For 1.31 patch - Improvements for Shogunate & Daimyos
- For 1.31 patch - More roles, more abilities, more meanings to have Naval Units

I hope you read my suggestion threads well, for next patch.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:
Heathen comes from the Old English hæðen which in turn comes from Old Norse heiðinn which most likely is from the Old Gothic and Wulfila's Bible where a related worth was used for "Gentile". The meaning in the early Middle Ages was very consistently "neither Christian nor Jewish". The distinction between heretic and heathen was not extant in the early Middles Ages. Plenty of monotheists (e.g. Yazadis, Mandeans, Manicheans, etc.) were held to be heathen and many of those were folks who came out of the Abrahamic tradition.

Earlier in the Middle Ages Mohammed was portrayed as an heresiarch, originating a new false religion. By the late Middle Ages he was often portrayed as being a straight up "pagan" god whom his followers worship (e.g. Song of Roland). A whole false demonic pantheon was ascribed to Muslims by some Christian writers of the late middle ages (e.g. Termagant, Apollyon, Baphomet, Machmet).


Long story short is that heathen had nothing to do with the number of gods (all the Christian writers viewed Zoroastrians as heathen from the start) and everything to do with rejecting the authority of both the Old and New Testaments. In time, more nuance developed for folks who rejected some of canonical books (e.g. Luther rejected Esther and James as cannonical) or parts thereof, but in the main Muslims rejected the whole of the New Testament (as perceived by Christians) and wide swathes of the Old Testament but by that point in time Christian beliefs about Muslims placed the latter heavily into the heathen camp.

***Yes, the late Middle Age view of Muslims by Christians was largely based on false, fictional accounts of Muslim beliefs, that was still the dominant understanding. Much how the dominant pagan Roman understanding of Christians was as atheists.***


What I can say @Jomini? You did a well research!!! And that what I said all the time. At the end of my post I said that could be applied to other monotheism religions out of Abrahamic tradition. And I didn't talk to much about this nuances "Last Testament or New" because as you said the "whole heathen" were applied to Muslim by false fictional accounts of Muslim beliefs, was more a Religious War and Political Affairs than real interest in the teachings of each religion.
The heathens or Pagans is polytheist. Which is totally different from monotheism. It could be applied to other monotheism religion that is different from Abraham Religion


If you look when Jerusalem were conquested by Muslim, even there the Jews, Muslim and Christhian could share freedom of faith with some problems but was Holy City to the 3 main religions.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
@Bandua_of_Gallaecia

EU4 is a game, which I consider good to History and has some fidelity to the real facts, but something could be applied erroneous. I think the purpose is make people look and learn more about the history.

Abrahamic Religions were who share the same line of doctrines established by the Patriarch Abraham, the Christian saw Jesus as the son and the last Prophet send by God.
The Muslim don't see Jesus as son of god and believe that Mohammed as the last prophet of god, but not son.

As you can see they all believe in One same God. But they don't accept each other interpretation and prophets. ( Was more a Religious War with political affairs than Heathens)
Protestants or Orthodox started when some biblical interpretations of Catholicism were not correctly with the practical actions of the Church, who should follow the laws of the bible. This is a internal problem of the Christian Church since their foundation.

The heathens or Pagans is polytheist. Which is totally different from monotheism. It could be applied to other monotheism religion that is different from Abraham Religion

Lol no.

One God or many Gods is the not the definition of Heathen and Heretic in Christianity.

It appears to be that Islam believes all Abrahamic religions to have special protections so they may view all Abrahamic religions as heretics or the true faith.

However they do not believe that Zoroastrianism or One God faith in for example Tengrism or Native American faiths are heretics. They are heathens in Islam.

In Christianity the difference between heretic and heathen has been simple: do they believe Christ is the key to Salvation? 1) If yes then they are either a true believer or a heretic 2) if no then they are heathens.

If you read any medieval European literature that discusses Islam you can plainly see that Muslims 'mohammedans' are viewed as heathens just as bad as Norse or other polytheistic beliefs. Sometimes they are equated to being worse than heathens because they have heard the Word of God and twisted it. Whereas heathens may have never had the chance to lie about God's word.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
What I would like to know is how the regional formables are made. Is it like Manchu, where you just conquer everyone in the area and are all done? Is it like Japan, where you conquer everyone and are all done, but have some options besides that? Or is it like the Mesoamericans or Inca, where conquering everyone is just part of the story, with some parallel mechanic to also work through?

Basically, a whole bunch of opms makes me think the formables are going to crop up by 1550 most every game, unless delayed by an admin tech requirement. In which case, it would be essentially the same result but one of the precursors holding all the provinces instead of the formable. I suppose with only three countries the smallest one might end up in a stalemate where nothing happens, but Hawaii and New Zealand have enough countries for an asymmetry to routinely come about that causes consolidation by one or another country. Curious what the typical results are in observer games.
 
What I would like to know is how the regional formables are made. Is it like Manchu, where you just conquer everyone in the area and are all done? Is it like Japan, where you conquer everyone and are all done, but have some options besides that? Or is it like the Mesoamericans or Inca, where conquering everyone is just part of the story, with some parallel mechanic to also work through?

Basically, a whole bunch of opms makes me think the formables are going to crop up by 1550 most every game, unless delayed by an admin tech requirement. In which case, it would be essentially the same result but one of the precursors holding all the provinces instead of the formable. I suppose with only three countries the smallest one might end up in a stalemate where nothing happens, but Hawaii and New Zealand have enough countries for an asymmetry to routinely come about that causes consolidation by one or another country. Curious what the typical results are in observer games.
There are no new mechanics to this so I think you're right that they'll tend toward consolidating their little pockets. I don't know that there's any way to keep them from doing this without that other than keeping them from ever getting boats or being able to cross straits until some absurdly late tech. Hawaii didn't unify until the 1700s but it seems like it has to happen every time here. The Iwis never unified. Granted Ternate and Tidore don't always conquer each other so this isn't necessarily the case.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
There should definitely be more hostile interaction between AI Portugal and the Muslim powers when Portugal reaches the Indian Ocean. Trade conflict CBs, embargoes, maybe even rivalries, with Venice meddling in between. This is completely absent from the game and was very important at the time.

There cant be the rivalries and conflicts between Portugal and the Muslim World in-game with the same degree seen IRL. The game mechanics cant deal with that, Portugal cant achieve the same influence in Asia by the 16th century and Portugal would be instantly obliterated by hordes of Ottoman and Mamelukan armies.