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EU4 - Development Diary - 12th of January 2021

After a few weeks without Dev Diaries, I am happy to present you a new one. I hope you all had a great time during them!

When I joined Paradox in October, Polynesia was not included in this Expansion. Considering it was the last part of the Earth without representation, I thought it would be nice to have some work done on it, so I proposed some ideas that I am happy to share with you all.

But, before I start, I would like to thank @Meka66 for his help and work that has greatly inspired me for this project.

THE MAP
The map has been slightly changed, since the basic needed setup was already there. However, in order to go a bit deeper, a few provinces have been added here and there. Do note that the flags are still a placeholder and not the final result.

Starting with Fiji, the archipelago has been divided in three provinces: one for each big island (Viti Levu and Vanua Levu) and a third one for the Lau archipelago that had a great influence from Tonga. Each province has a country inhabiting it, which is an abstraction of the many clans that populated each island. Should you unite them all under your banner, you will be able to form Viti.

Fiji Archipelago.png

[Fiji Archipelago and TAGs]​

In New Zealand a new province has been added in North Island which has the most populated one by the Maori people. The number of countries, though, goes up to 7. Six of them (Mataatua, Tainui, Takitimu, Taranaki, Te Arawa and Te Tai Tokerau) are in the Northern Island and Waitaha is in the Southern One. As in the case of Fiji, a Maori country that manages to unite the area is able to form Aotearoa.

New Zealand Archipelago.png

[New Zealand Archipelago and TAGs]​

Finally, the greatest transformation has been done in the Hawaiian Archipelago, that has gone from one province to four. Each province has their own country attached (Hawai’i, Kaua’i, Maui and O’ahu). As in the other cases, there is a formable for the unifiers of the islands.

Hawaii Archipelago.png

[Hawaii Archipelago and TAGs]​

A Polynesian rework could not let the two most important countries out: Samoa and Tonga.

Samoa & Tonga Archipelago.png

[Samoan and Tongan Archipelagos and TAGs]​

THE MISSIONS
As in the case of the Americas, the mission tree consists of a general common mission tree for every country and some specific missions for each country or group of them.

Tongan Mission Tree.png

[Tonga Mission Tree]
(Notice that all icons are still placeholders)​

Tonga is probably the most important TAG during this period. Despite the fact that the Tongan Empire is no more, a skillful player could rebuild it, bringing not only the neighboring islands under the control of Tongatapu, but go even further.

Some highlights of this tree include:
  • Bringing both Fiji and Samoa under your control again.
  • Recovering the Tongan Empire.
  • Expand even further.

Samoan Mission Tree.png

[Samoan Mission Tree]
(Notice that all icons are still placeholders).​

If Tonga was the political power during the period, Samoa was the cultural one. Most of the Pacific was colonized from there and from there were most of the traditions that ruled the lives of the Polynesians.

Some highlights of this tree include:
  • Recover the place as the cultural center.
  • Challenge Tonga.
  • Replace Tonga as the main power in the Pacific.

In order to not spoil the surprise, I will let you discover what the missions for the Maori the Fijian and the Hawaiian countries consist of.

THE NATIONAL IDEAS
Adding new TAGs would not be the same if they were not accompanied by their National Ideas.

Starting with the Fijians TAGs, their warring nature brought them a reputation of ruthless combatants, feared by everyone. But Fijians were also deeply religious people and famous shipbuilding artisans. All these things are represented in their National Ideas, making them a rather expansionist set.

Code:
fijian_ideas = {
    start = {
        light_ship_power = 0.1
        naval_attrition = -0.1
    }
  
    bonus = {
        ae_impact = -0.2
    }
  
    trigger = {
        OR = {
            tag = LAI
            tag = VIL
            #TODO: tag = VIT
            tag = VNL
        }
    }
    free = yes
  
    fijian_crossroad = {
        num_accepted_cultures = 2
    }
    fijian_degel = {
        range = 0.1
        global_ship_trade_power = 0.1
    }
    fijian_conjoined = {
        global_missionary_strength = 0.02
    }
    fijian_waqa = {
        prestige_from_naval = 0.4
    }
    fijian_cannibal = {
        army_tradition_from_battle = 0.25
        prestige_from_land = 0.4
    }
    fijian_kai = {
        land_attrition = -0.25
    }
    fijian_confederacy = {
        global_tax_modifier = 0.05
        production_efficiency = 0.05
    }
}
[Fijian National Ideas]​

As in the case of the Fijians, the Maori are famed for their bravery and constant warfare. Their set of ideas is focused on land combat, without disregarding ways to keep the land around a strong leader.

Code:
maori_ideas = {
    start = {
        global_regiment_recruit_speed = -0.10
        harsh_treatment_cost = -0.20
    }
  
    bonus = {
        prestige = 1
    }
  
    trigger = {
        primary_culture = maori
    }
    free = yes
  
    sons_of_kupe = {
        global_sailors_modifier = 0.10
        range = 0.10
    }
    kaikiakitanga = {
        tolerance_own = 1
    }
    kaumatua = {
        stability_cost_modifier = -0.20
    }
    kapa_haka = {
        land_morale = 0.10
    }
    pa_defence = {
        fort_maintenance_modifier = -0.10
    }
    te_moko = {
        leader_land_shock = 1
    }
    maori_king = {
        core_creation = -0.10
        legitimacy = 1
    }
}
[Maori National Ideas]​

As with the missions, we’d better not spoil the surprise by showing everything, am I right? I have a challenge for those that love them: try a world conquest with a Polynesian TAG! There are a couple of things in this area that could help you in that adventure. ;)

THE EVENTS
Events are one of the parts I like the most. While not as much time as I would have liked has been available, I have added more than 40 events to the area, including general events, specific Country events and even a few Easter eggs that I hope you can find and enjoy!

Fiji Event.png

Practice is what makes you a good warrior, after all.
(Notice that all pictures are still placeholders).

Hawaii Event.png

This event can be very nasty if you are in a very bad shape.
(Notice that all pictures are still placeholders).

Samoan Event.png

As Samoa, you will be given the choice to reform your society a bit or go on with the traditions with every ruler.
(Notice that all pictures are still placeholders).​

THE EXTRAS
There are a few things that have been added in order to create a bigger sense of immersion.

Maori culture has been created, separated from the main Polynesian branch. By the start of the game, the Maori were abandoning the Archaic Maori Period and entering a transformation one. The Iwi became more sedentary and their once pacific nature became more warlike as competition for resources becomes more central. New traditions had evolved by this time that justifies separating them from their islander cousins.

A new Polynesian technology group has been created. This technology group is between that of the Mesoamericans and the North Americans in penalty, but starts at tech 2.

Most Estates have been renamed to their proper versions to increase the flavor.

And some extra surprises here and there.

For now this is all. We still have lots of things to show, so just be patient and enjoy the time in between, everything will come!
 
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I think Arthrodira is addressing the "this is a waste of time, focus more on Europe" mentality rather than just people who think Europe needs more work. I mean I personally think Northern Europe desperately needs more work, but I don't think RTW is a waste of dev time. That's why I said it was probably worded too strongly. People who just want more Europe fixes are going to feel unfairly lumped into that.
Alright I don't count this as engaging in a debate, but clarifying my post hahaha. I'm taking a hard stand on the possible implication of attacks on adding content to RTW - this is not necessarily to call out people, but to make people think more carefully about what they say and why they say it. @IndigoRage is correct, I'm not saying Europe is perfect, I'm saying there is value in RTW, such as Polynesia. For example, I would like to see a better reflection of the ongoing Christianization of the Russian countryside at the start of this game, as well as the Moscovite civil war that's basically ongoing at game start.

I just want to drive home how some of the comments against RTW content can be interpreted, and to me at least, it becomes more difficult to ignore this interpretation/explanation when we see the same criticisms lobbed every single time RTW content comes up.
 
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That would also severely hurt trade cities in the HRE etc that became major cities like Hamburg though. I feel like they're too abstracted (represent too many things) for it to be fair for them to be distributed that way.

It's true we aren't quite sure what development means. Is that population? An abstracted mean to represent infrastructures? GNP? Nobody really knows. And nobody knows by which magic people can transform over time potential political power (mana, or monarch points) into development.
 
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@Arthrodira Since I just wrote on this thread, I'll try to explain my position better : it's not that the game has no place for polynesians, it's just that it's representing settled civilisations who increased in number and in "raw power" over the course of centuries. If anything, I think that what should be overhauled is the development system. The game was originally made in the late '90s. It had in mind the expansion of European polities and of their colonial offsprings, not the alternative histories of those people they historically subjugated.

If we keep in mind that there is such a thing as a range of plausibility between the current situation and a situation in which the polynesians and Maori would have become major world powers, I find it dubious that they would always have so much "development" at the end of the game or that their influence in the grand scheme of things would be so immense that conquering their islands would need a major military presence. This is in comparison to the current situation in-game, where the europeans only needed to "colonize" their lands.

The game represents poorly how every nation didn't thrive in numbers and infrastructure. That's all I'm saying for my part.
The problem is everything is abstracted by development, and it's not very clear what development actually is. I think the best possible interpretation is that it represents the governments' capacity to extract the relevant "resource." So it's sort of a measure of bureaucracy. This creates all these problems though. There's really no reason to necessarily think that a feudal society is somehow better at mobilizing its population for warfare, or taxing its population, than say a mesoamerican empire.

Provinces really need to track 4 values: population, wealth, infrastructure, and technology. A province could be very populous, flush with gold, and possessing excellent roads, but the people are using bronze-age tools (as in the Incan Empire for example). Alternatively, a rural backwater with dirt trails could have guns. Or a major city, like Paris or London, could be riddled with disease since the infrastructure is so poor. Or there could be a lot of people, but no wealth. Development really is a nearly worthless way to track provinces... Too late for a fix though.
 
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That or maybe they could get rid of the idea that every country can make the same amount of monarch points. Instead, they could make it so that bigger countries can make more monarch points than smaller, with modifiers on technology and ideas for small countries. It would mean a small country would have a harder time developping itself, because it wouldn't have the ressources to double it's size in development by the sheer might of its inhabitants. A small country would also have a harder time coring and culturally convert, though.

This would have the potential to fix the enormous HRE and the Polynesians islands becoming the size of Paris.
Maybe make development cost money in addition to monarch points and/or progressively cheaper MP cost with technology?
 
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One of the reason part of the community is against the inclusion of pacific natives as playable states is due to their historical maritime inactivity in this period, how will this be addressed? It would be a bit immersion breaking to see Maori ships in SEA.
I mean, the pacific is pretty big. It's not gonna be easy to get naval supply range from one side to the other.
 
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@Arthrodira It seems like we really agree on development. I just hope it's not too late for the devs to devise some kind of way for that system to not give impossible results each game we play.

Maybe make development cost money in addition to monarch points and/or progressively cheaper MP cost with technology?

I'm not sure I like development costing money. It would be like when EUIV was released and constructing each building cost a bit of monarch points... Though it could make sense and maybe I'm just too ingrained into the current way of doing things. I systematically develop for renaissance using my diplo and admin points in order to have more money, especially with a small country.

Cheaper cost with technology seems like an interesting way to approach things, though it defeats the purpose of developing for institutions (would it really be bad?) and makes it so that if you did this then you have polynesian on par with european powers in 1500s anyway.
 
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I am sorry to use such strong language, and I sincerely do not mean to insult anyone. This is not a blanket statement about everyone but a commentary on a disturbing trend. If you feel like I am unfairly representing you, please just assume that you are not one of the people I am talking about. However, especially in light of recent events at the US Capitol, I find some of these comments regarding Polynesia to be rude, ignorant, and insulting. And I feel the need to write what many of us are undoubtedly thinking.

Every single time PDX expands gameplay outside of Europe in this game or any other we see a ridiculous string of comments criticizing the decision as a waste of time, as a lack of depth, as lazy DLC, or as a meme. Many of these comments are simply the logical consequences of thinly veiled xenophobia and racism against non-Europeans. Most of us, I hope and assume, are tired of it. You may only want to play as a European, but don't force other people into accepting your single-minded cultural biases, and maybe just maybe you should consider playing as one of these new tags. Maybe it will open your eyes to the value in other cultures.

If you truly are not a racist and not a xenophobe, and you disagree with this map expansion, then as I said, please assume I am not talking about you; maybe just be more careful with your language in the future so as to distance yourself from these people. But if you are using this game to advance such a heinous mindset, then shame on you; don't try to bully others into your ignorant positions and ideologies. I am always embarrassed and saddened that this forum needs to pin a reminder against racial/ethnic slurs to the top (but heartened that most people take these things as seriously as they are).

Again sorry to be polemical, there is probably a better way to say this, but I cannot get it off my mind. I do not want an internet fight, so I will not be engaging in any arguments that may or may not follow this post.

I also get very annoyed by the people who get mad whenever Paradox makes an update outside Europe, but I don't see any racism or xenophobia in these comments. I think the biggest thing going on here is that a lot of people have a play style that is adapted to the world outside Europe being small and underdeveloped. Adding more provinces and tags forces them to change the way they play and they don't like that. Of course people will laugh at you if you say "but now I can't control all of the Americas by 1600" so they make up a bunch of complex arguments why this or that country is unimportant.
 
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Absent a total redesign of rebels (which would be great if we could be confident it would be an improvement) and another major overhaul of estates?

Yes. The core gameplay experience of early-game France should really be about the process of recentralizing under Charles VII 'the Victorious', Louis XI 'the Prudent', and Charles VIII 'the Affable' and thus cleaning up the mess left by Charles VI 'the Mad'.

(In the alternative, go back to 1492 as a start date and spin CK3 out to the end of 1491.)
I'm not saying adding French duchies was a "wrong choice" i understand it was a better representation of the feudal situation in France and the best way (within current mechanics) to portray the centralisation efforts. But doesn't this argument apply to nearly every single mid-to-large tag? I mean there were hardly any centralised nation-states anywhere in 1444, the logic applied to France can just as easily be argued for a dozen other tags.

My argument is merely one of prespective, i'm seeing a lot of people criticising the new provinces and tags added in Polynesia, but honestly if the decision is between adding representation to cultures and geographical areas which are currently borderline entirely absent from the game or increasing depth on the current more fleshed out tags, i'll 100% take the side of the unrepresented civilizations.

I'm not against the duchies in France, just like I'm not against the additions in Polynesia. I'm always in favour of more provinces and more tags, i love depth and i truly desire everyone to be represented as accurately as possible.

And I'm saying this as a player with a terrible cpu, my late-game is pathetically slow, it takes me 20 seconds for a month to pass on speed 5 and i can barely play multiplayer on speed 2.
Trust me, I understand your concerns with performance, but lets be realistic, 7 tags in polynesia barely make a dent in the performance, I don't find this argument reasonable enough to be be used against representation. I don't mind running the game a bit slower, this isn't a fps, rts or rpg where smooth running is essential to do anything, the game is perfectly playable at a slightly slower speed.

I honestly find it incredible how can anyone ever be against more detail, once the game devolves into a dozen big blobs I immediately lose interest.
 
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I also get very annoyed by the people who get mad whenever Paradox makes an update outside Europe, but I don't see any racism or xenophobia in these comments. I think the biggest thing going on here is that a lot of people have a play style that is adapted to the world outside Europe being small and underdeveloped. Adding more provinces and tags forces them to change the way they play and they don't like that. Of course people will laugh at you if you say "but now I can't control all of the Americas by 1600" so they make up a bunch of complex arguments why this or that country is unimportant.
I think @Arthrodira 's followup clarifies it was more about people thinking before they speak. I mean you don't have to be a racist to say things that give off that vibe. Just uh... being conscious of our own implicit biases in regard to things like Eurocentrism. I do agree there's definitely a gameplay aspect regarding how comfortable people are in grooves they've built for themselves though. like the idea 4 provinces being occupied from a region where there are still only a dozen free will hurt island hopping to America or that having to take these out makes WC any harder than it was before.
 
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I really love this DD.

First of all, thanks to @Aldaron to take this step and show that Paradox is listening to their players.
I will make some points there and this may help some people and EU4 Devs about natives.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are sayings that this just will make WC more annoying, more tag, 'devs should work on other areas' and blah blah.... just to open the mind of this guys. WC is not easy, if this is a simulator should have more reality, must of native nations were wiped out by genocide actions, that you guys should be ashamed to not know this , for my point of view many of this guys were raised on Wonderlands GREEK World and still doesn't know what was occurring when European Nations started their politics on New World: (RAPE,INFANTICIDE,SCALP,KIDNAPPING,ACCULTURATION, WHITE POLITICS) and that was little some things that happened.

So Nak'Arosh 'The native nations were the good guys?' I can't say that but some host rules and respect were well know all over the world and warlike nations and peaceful nations exists everywhere.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the Dev Diaries: I really like the way of most of the regions have more tags, Hawaii, Samoa, Tonga and Fiji got more attention. For people who not know Polynesian were the Master Seafarer that world knew and will know for long time, they were raised in 'Ocean' that is different from small potion like 'Seas'. Travel long path without compass and sextant tools even nowadays is kind difficult and almost impossible, its similar to be launched on a huge Jungle or Dune Desert. And they could reach their destiny with precision, most of their ship were more advanced than First Europeans ships.

I hope @Aldaron see some Catamarans(Outrigger-canoe) and Trimarans(Double Outrigger-Canoe) as ships on the game would be awesome! If you ask me how they could fight a Warship i will answer i don't know haha .



About the Polynesian knowledge of the World, i could say that their already know all continents, but why they where inactive in this time, just God know.


For @Groogy here are some things about Native American.:
There is some research about Polynesian get some contacts with Inca and other South America and North-America Nations:

  • South America
1)On the South- America research show some kind of DNA relation between Polynesian and Tapuian Tribes of Brazil.​
2)Potatoes were found on Polynesia where only was cultivated on South-America suggesting that their realized some trades.​
3)Inca ships could travel far too.​


  • North America
North America the Haida Tribe has a history that their ancestor traveled to Hawai'i on a dugout canoe you could check this there:​
You could found some information on books too, but something about religion that could be implement can be found on Age 3: Warchiefs and Total War Empire: Warpath. They explain a little about somethings.​
  1. Huron-Wyandot and Iroquois rivalry could be implemented.
  2. Steal technology is things that could be implemented.
One thing that I found very lack of creativity is that Native American they do not fought themselves or made Alliance with purpose of growing. When European came they need to ally to some of them to know the lands and get into other tribes.​
Explorer just know the coast of the continents , much who adventure far on hinterlands got sicked and died, or get lost and died.


  • Meso-America
    I would include in myself observation that Polynesia could reached them too because of Caribbean tribes similarity of sea knowledge but that is a speculation.


  • Religion:
I hope see some Polynesian Religion like Mana.​


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why take steps on natives all over EU4 is important? Colonize is not easy as its on EU4, your colony need to understand who is the Master and take control of a colony far over your region is kind difficult, little discipline would evoke a independence state of mind and harsh discipline could call on a revolt. The Europe Nation like Spain and Portugal suffers that on their Colonies and the war against many Natives took much of their time and efforts to establish a colony and sovereignty over New World regions. I would suggest some of Dev read 1491 : New Revelations of The America Before Colombus a really good book that I already read. It's a well know book and explain how was the world before European came, native technologies and Etc's. The World was far from been motionless on that time, things were happening wars were occurring, the powder gun brought by the European were at same level of a bow or worse, and were more slow to be used. The change came years before, i can't remember the name of the weapons, but soon as I found again I will point it there.

One things that I found very strange is that France, United-Kingdom, Spain and Portugal don't fight each other, the piracy on that time is well documented, or maybe I was not pay attention.
Portugal had its glory and fought with Spain all the way down, but in my play games they live in peaceful harmony, don't know why or is just with me.

I'm new to Paradox game, but I already played game like this even before the classical Crusaders Kings.

Sorry to take this time to wrote this down, we all have to work,study and socialize .


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well done @Groogy and @Aldaron !
 
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That's fine but without Island hopping it will massively delay how long it takes these countries to get to the far east.
Also these countries did get control over many of these places. Maybe EU4 need a sphere of influence type of mechanic.

I think it's important to keep in mind that aside from Spain, the Europeans mostly didn't get to Asia from America, and also aside from Guam, most of the Pacific islands weren't really conquered by European powers in the EU4 period...
 
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Oh ... so you are adding more small islands....... so... *cough* Channel Islands *cough* *cough*
 
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One of the reason part of the community is against the inclusion of pacific natives as playable states is due to their historical maritime inactivity in this period, how will this be addressed? It would be a bit immersion breaking to see Maori ships in SEA.

Europa Universalis is a franchise that since EU2 is going away from immersion, really. And in the case of EU4, each new dlc/"expansion" just piles up some new "content" on top of other "contents" without integrating them in a cohesive and compreensive manner, at least since late 2016 (Rights of Man).
 
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@Arthrodira Since I just wrote on this thread, I'll try to explain my position better : it's not that the game has no place for polynesians, it's just that it's representing settled civilisations who increased in number and in "raw power" over the course of centuries. If anything, I think that what should be overhauled is the development system. The game was originally made in the late '90s. It had in mind the expansion of European polities and of their colonial offsprings, not the alternative histories of those people they historically subjugated.

If we keep in mind that there is such a thing as a range of plausibility between the current situation and a situation in which the polynesians and Maori would have become major world powers, I find it dubious that they would always have so much "development" at the end of the game or that their influence in the grand scheme of things would be so immense that conquering their islands would need a major military presence. This is in comparison to the current situation in-game, where the europeans only needed to "colonize" their lands.

The game represents poorly how every nation didn't thrive in numbers and infrastructure. That's all I'm saying for my part.

exactly my point put far more eloquently.

I personally have no problem with ROTW updates so long as the Europe game is on point, which for me, atm it is not. That is not because Im what has been alluded to above, but because I’m playing a game I had hoped would be about European history between the 15th-long 18th centuries. The effect that Polynesia had on that is very small to the point of insignificance.

That is not however to say that Polynesia is insignificant. Far from it! Seems like an amazingly fascinating culture and interesting place. I just worry that money spent on dev wages is being used where I wouldn’t like it to be. I suppose it’s my fault for not accepting that the game has moved beyond its namesake. Which for me is a bummer because I adore the time period in Europe. Not because of any ulterior motives or inherent dislike of other places cultures or peoples though.

EU4 does an amazing job of introducing me (us?) to cultures and histories that I wouldn’t usually interact with. China and Siamese peninsula case in point. I now know an (unbelievably brief) history of those places , the names of their cities dynasties troops culture religion and cultures; which I otherwise wouldn’t know. I love that aspect of the game. But it’s not why I spend so much time and money on it.
 
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The problem is everything is abstracted by development, and it's not very clear what development actually is. I think the best possible interpretation is that it represents the governments' capacity to extract the relevant "resource." So it's sort of a measure of bureaucracy. This creates all these problems though. There's really no reason to necessarily think that a feudal society is somehow better at mobilizing its population for warfare, or taxing its population, than say a mesoamerican empire.

Provinces really need to track 4 values: population, wealth, infrastructure, and technology. A province could be very populous, flush with gold, and possessing excellent roads, but the people are using bronze-age tools (as in the Incan Empire for example). Alternatively, a rural backwater with dirt trails could have guns. Or a major city, like Paris or London, could be riddled with disease since the infrastructure is so poor. Or there could be a lot of people, but no wealth. Development really is a nearly worthless way to track provinces... Too late for a fix though.

this is the best suggestion ever
 
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I think it's important to keep in mind that aside from Spain, the Europeans mostly didn't get to Asia from America, and also aside from Guam, most of the Pacific islands weren't really conquered by European powers in the EU4 period...

This is the best argument for adding these tags that I’ve seen and I actually feel a bit better about them now. Although I still worry about lack of coherent game design.
 
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Great to see more content, but something bothers me. Why are resources being spent on making these extensive mission trees for small pacific island tribes, when you have nations like Denmark or Mamluks with a generic mission tree and 5 unique missions..?
I know they're not the scope of this patch, but personally I wouldn't mind..
Again, I am not complaining but I feel it's a bit of an oversight isn't it?
 
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Every single time PDX expands gameplay outside of Europe in this game or any other we see a ridiculous string of comments criticizing the decision as a waste of time, as a lack of depth, as lazy DLC, or as a meme. Many of these comments are simply the logical consequences of thinly veiled xenophobia and racism against non-Europeans. Most of us, I hope and assume, are tired of it. You may only want to play as a European, but don't force other people into accepting your single-minded cultural biases, and maybe just maybe you should consider playing as one of these new tags. Maybe it will open your eyes to the value in other cultures.
Definitely, PDX has a lot of problems with these kinds of people and honestly, they need to treat them accordingly. I'm not telling you to report people that don't like things like this, but sometimes they say stuff that should get them banned.
 
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