EU4 - Development Diary - 11th of August 2020

[sylanna]

1. And how exactly would you reach them? A naval invasion with your 10 cogs? There's also The point of historical accuracy. WHY does this truce even exist? There is zero historical reason for this to exist, it's merely a bandaid covering the real issue of bad AI not handling hordes properly.

Exactly, but it isn't too unlikely that you can reach them by land because someone involved will probably get military access from Jianzhou.

There actually is a historical reason for the truce to exist. Joseon attacked the Jurchen in 1433 and conquered northern Hamgil.

3. Korchin and Mongolia are in the Tartary region IIRC. However you are correct about Yeren and Nivkh having 3 dev provinces, I forgot that Manchuria got moved to East Asia last patch. Still makes no sense why Korea has 3 dev provinces however, Northern Korea is nowhere near as sparsely developed as Siberia.

Yeah they are. The but the dev is probably low because they wanted to implement as war ridden land.

4. You're still stuck with them until they get into a war that you can enforce on, which means they need to be the war leading offender, which is rare considering their tiny size. Might as well wait until Japan unifies before you get the chance to do so.

This isn't too much of an issue imo. I play a lot in Japan so I know who to definitely not improve relations with. I agree that it is to some extend a waiting game, sometimes more, sometimes less. But what else are you gonna do anyway :b

AI Japan takes centuries to form, not really keen on waiting that long. It's also an easy way to get the foot in the door.

 

[Sidolowka]

Exactly, but it isn't too unlikely that you can reach them by land because someone involved will probably get military access from Jianzhou.

There actually is a historical reason for the truce to exist. Joseon attacked the Jurchen in 1433 and conquered northern Hamgil.
Yeah they are. The but the dev is probably low because they wanted to implement as war ridden land.

This isn't too much of an issue imo. I play a lot in Japan so I know who to definitely not improve relations with. I agree that it is to some extend a waiting game, sometimes more, sometimes less. But what else are you gonna do anyway :b

AI Japan takes centuries to form, not really keen on waiting that long. It's also an easy way to get the foot in the door.

The Jurchens in Korea were not the same as the Jianzhou Jurchens. Jianzhou is the name the Chinese gave to the three Jurchens tribes then living in Manchuria (Jianzhou, Haixi and Yeren). The Jurchens in the northern parts of Hamgyeong were unorganised tribes of no real identity, and even then they were limited to what is the province of Yukjin; Gyeongseong has no reason to be Jurchen cultured.

Even if we do exclude Yukjin, the rest of Korea has pitiful dev, with Jeju and Gyeongseong having 3 dev, and the capital of Hanseong having a laughable 10 dev. Even some of the Central Asian steppe provinces and interior African provinces have higher dev than this. Korea in total only has 130 dev, which is one of the lowest dev to population ratios in the game, barely ahead of Ming.

And that's exactly the problem with So. Being sat there for a century having your coast raided is NOT entertaining at the very least. Even more so when there's nothing you can do about it. Japan's high dev and province count means that their navy is always bound to be stronger than yours until you conquer the Chinese coastline, which means that your coastal provinces will get raided until they get annexed (By either you or Ashikaga)

 

[sylanna]

The Jurchens in Korea were not the same as the Jianzhou Jurchens. Jianzhou is the name the Chinese gave to the three Jurchens tribes then living in Manchuria (Jianzhou, Haixi and Yeren). The Jurchens in the northern parts of Hamgyeong were unorganised tribes of no real identity, and even then they were limited to what is the province of Yukjin; Gyeongseong has no reason to be Jurchen cultured.

Li Manzhu was the commander of the Jianzhou Guard and was defeated by Choe Yun-deok in 1433. So Jianzhou and Joseon were definitely at war.

Also Jianzhou isn't the name the Ming gave to a tribe, but to a group of tribes. One of those tribes were the Huligai to which Li Manzhu and the former commander of the guard Ahacu belonged to.

I think that both provinces should have korean culture since they were essentially build up by korean settlers after they took the chance when Möngke Temür was assassinated.

 

[Lars M]

Mission trees for Malay nations other than Majapahit are split into 4 sections. In red are missions unique to that country, in this case Malacca. In green and blue are missions available to all Malay nations, and in purple are missions available only after forming Malaya.

Will content like missions available to more or less every country in a culture group be something that you plan to extend to other culture groups?

 

[MoorishBro]

1. You start off with a 5 year truce with Jianzhou, the only expansion path you have.

2. Declaring wars now makes you take a stability hit. Oh but you also get -4% dev cost, fun times.

3. Manchuria got their development nearly doubled, Korea still has absolute garbage land. The only 3 dev provinces in East Asia are now in Korea and Hokkaido.

4. So. FUCKING So. Wave goodbye to prosperity.

5. All the Jurchen tribes now have the great military ideas, you're still stuck with 10% infantry combat ability. At least they don't have -10% tech cost while you have 5%.

6. Several new bad events that hit you with stability hits, estate loyalty drops, estate loyalty equilibrium drops, and rebels.

7. All of East Asia (yes, including even Ming) now get perma-claims on the entirety of Korea. Now the reverse is also true in that Korea gets perma-claims in East Asia, which I honestly find slightly immersion breaking, considering how Korea didn't really have much ambition beyond Manchuria and Japan (which was mostly to counter pirates)

Remaining issues:

1. Yi Hyang is still a 2/1/1.

2. Instead of giving Korea proper naval ideas Paradox gave them the same one Japan has (7 years into the game that is). Korea got its naval legacy from defeating Japan. Go figure.

3. Confucianism is still the worst religion in the area, if not the worst non-Pagan religion in the world.

The middle east and africa in its whole are portrayed like unpopulated backwaters, it's not so bad in east asia
But I get what you mean, Korea has very low development

 

[Sidolowka]

Li Manzhu was the commander of the Jianzhou Guard and was defeated by Choe Yun-deok in 1433. So Jianzhou and Joseon were definitely at war.

Also Jianzhou isn't the name the Ming gave to a tribe, but to a group of tribes. One of those tribes were the Huligai to which Li Manzhu and the former commander of the guard Ahacu belonged to.

I think that both provinces should have korean culture since they were essentially build up by korean settlers after they took the chance when Möngke Temür was assassinated.

Well TIL. Interesting.

 

[korawit13]

I am sorry. I feel the unbalanced game. Do anyone think the whole SEA will be Islam? I hope I am wrong. Because right now the Buddha Reglion feel really disadvantages, I hope the devs suprise us with new Buddhist system.

 

[JKiller96]

Considering how it was once Sulu who sacked Poni (Majapahit affiliated Brunei before Brunei rebelled and Islamised), in a rebellion against Majapahit, and it is also Sulu who who intervened in the Bruneian Civil War and was awarded Sabah shouldn't there be a mission tree for Sulu too? Also other precolonial states I would like featured is Maynila and Dapitan at Bohol.

Bohol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I support that Sulu should be a part of the scope of this update as they were active in Borneo throughout EU4's timeline

 

[Berberin]

A idea for new tributary interaction and casus belli:
New interaction for overlord: Demand hostage prince: Make target subject heir become hostage prince
- Only heir under 15 year old
- Only for loyal tributaries
- Greatly increase liberty desire
- Hightly chance heir change to culture/religion of overlord
- Have chance heir raise stats
- If ruler of target tributary die, target can choose accept hostage prince to become new ruler or not
* Accept: small improve relation, trust, liberty desire with overlord, penalty on unrest, prestige and legitimacy, small bonus mandate/legitimacy for overlord
* Refuse: choose other ruler, greatly penalty relation, trust, liberty desire with overlord, have chance overlord "Military intervene" (detail below)
- If target subjects join a war against overlord in time heir hostaged, heir die.
Whenever a ruler dies and subjects refuse hostage prince, a rebel change ruler/dynasty in tributary nation, overlord can choose a decision:
1. Accept new ruler: large improve relation, trust with that tributary, lightly penalty relation with all other
2. Censure new ruler, but their internal affair: lightly penalty relation that tributary, small bonus on mandate/legitimacy and relation with other tributaries
3. Military intervene (Only if tributary have bad relation with overlord, so if tributary keep relation wwith overlord good enough even have prince hostage overlord can't intervene):
- Immediately small penalty mandate/legitimacy and relation with all tributaries
- Start war with some accepted peace offer:
* Force return throne (restore old dynasty, prince hostage become new ruler, improve relation on all tributaries, regular bonus on mandate/legitimacy, greatly improve relation, trust, liberty desire with target tributary).
* Force vassal (restore old dynasty, prince hostage become new ruler, make target become vassal, regular penalty relation on all tributaries and mandate/legitimacy, greatly penalty relation, trust, liberty desire with target tributary)
* Accept new ruler with a price(small war cost, accept new ruler, target remain tributary, pay large amount gold, regular penalty relation on all tributaries and mandate/legitimacy)
* Can't cede province
- If overlord lost/white peace: liberty target subject, greatly penalty mandate/legitimacy, increase liberty desire on all tributary.
I want a way to decrease autonomy of tributaries, but it'll not easy and risky for mandate/unrest of overlord. Only one war lost, with severe impact on mandate and other subjects relation can knock out an empire (such as Sui dynasty after Joseon invasion). Besides, it's also a peacefully method to spread overlord's culture influence to others by educate the subjects heir.
This is my first post and my English is bad, please forgive me if i have some mistakes.

 

[Rastin]

Still waiting for sth about central-eastern europ. Every coutry bordering PLC has uniqe missions/ special units and goverment events. There was a patch called Poland and all it did was spliting provinces. Lithuania is basicly ticking bomb since it always spawns big stacks of every kind of rebels. Basicly the region of PLC and Scandynawia is totaly underdeveloped by all means

 

[MoorishBro]

Still waiting for sth about central-eastern europ. Every coutry bordering PLC has uniqe missions/ special units and goverment events. There was a patch called Poland and all it did was spliting provinces. Lithuania is basicly ticking bomb since it always spawns big stacks of every kind of rebels. Basicly the region of PLC and Scandynawia is totaly underdeveloped by all means

IMO I think the broader islamic world needs a major revamp and rework, litteraly only the ottomans are by far a "threat" if you play as a western european nation; but even then they act as a paper tiger
The development in this super region is also severely underdeveloped, I mean reknown cities of the indian ocean trade are at max 10 development... Mogadishu, aden, masqat, thatta, jeddah, basra, hormuz etc.
Persia in its whole is shown as a desert devoid of life and flora
North africa gets overrun by portugal on its own and naples beats up tunis most of the time; I agree that poland also needs a dire rework, but the islamic world is much more of immediate need of it
You can steamroll the MENA region without any dangerous coalition or resistance with ease

 

[Skyfus]

AI typically doesn't pursue missions aggressively, in my playtesting I haven't seen this as an issue at all. When you would get a subjugation CB from a mission but the target is already a non-tributary subject or doesn't exist, you instead get permanent claims on the relevant provinces.

I guess you *could* try to do some kinda new, malayan-mission specific transfer subject CB that you get on the overlord if it's checked that the subjugation target isn't independent when you claim the mission (but I don't know how adversely that would affect balance in terms of abuse)

 

[Lightwell]

Next week’s dev diary will be a focus on Vietnam, including the new mission trees for Dai Viet and Champa.

Hoping we get a different take on Annam, Tonkin, and the Tay Son rebellion.

 

[BlazeKnight_]

buff Korea pls and rework tributaries
No but seriously the real reason I'm posting this is because wtf is MLC_ideas. The balance between the national idea groups shown is so bad and idk if it's intentional or not.
Malacca: I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that ZERO quality combat modifiers is extremely bad. Malacca doesn't even have trade efficiency or goods produced so it fails at being a trade empire. They don't even have any direct income boosting ideas, actually. I seriously fail to see how this made it past the development board.
+1 Tolerance Own, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Diplo Rep are all filler ideas. Malacca also has so many low-quality trade ideas as well, like 10% Global Trade Power and 20% Trade Steering. Get rid of the filler ideas and put in trade efficiency and/or goods produced and also add in at least one combat modifier (pref. Naval Morale or Engagement Width).
Aceh: The 15% Naval Morale alone already makes this set superior to Malacca's entire group. 10% Tech, -1 Interest, Production, Colonial Growth, etc. all of these push it way over. This I feel is the most balanced NI set. It's a good unfocused nation and is similar to Tuscan ideas in that it shows the right way to make a "jack of all trades" national ideas set. It's not major power material, but that's fine since all these nations can form Malaya anyways (which I hope has good NIs).
Brunei: The standalone 10% Land Morale has no reason to be there. 15% Morale, 20% Galley CA, and 10% Dura means Brunei is the premier naval superpower in SEA and will probably be the most picked nation to form Malaya (in multiplayer). This is actually the best inland sea naval NIs we've had so far (Venice has no morale).

Conclusion: buff Malaccan ideas jesus christ

 

[Ark Tolei]

Now seems like a great time to add the strait of Johor to the map. The map of Johor looks completely wrong, presumably because it was imported from a zoomed out satellite map with rivers and waterways added later. Singapore is an island, and the strait of Johor is an extremely important geographical feature that shows up on every map of the region. Even old Portuguese maps that think Singapore is southeast of malaya don't have it as part of the mainland.

In related news, it's great to hear you're adding more gameplay depth to southeast asia.

 

[Vran]

If you guys are going to keep adding estate privileges like this, you reaaaallly need to expand it to have more than 5 slots each. They're already packed as it is.

Hard limits rarely make any sense... It seems to me that everytime they release a patch with some new hard limit, they then have to spend the next few years turning it into a soft limit (a few years because first all the management has to be convinced that a soft limit would be better and to show at least a thousand posts of people complaining). Wouldn't it be more practical to ALWYS have soft limits? Or was it a medieval custom for estates to have only 5 privileges max? Or 999 mana points? Or 200 Papal influence, or 100 Imperial authority, or..... well... need I say more?

 

[Alexius Ben Zedrine]

Acehnese is in fact a new culture in this update.

Best news in this dev diary so far! And that is telling something, seeing that the mission tree updates are amazing in their own rights.

 

[Alilolo]

I found a good reading material regarding the early history in Aceh!

https://academia.edu/resource/work/26181814

(See page 46 to see what i used to ramble about in earlier Dev Diaries