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ZomgK3tchup

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Hmmm... Coexistance Policy seems to me less advantageous compare to all others... I never had problems with native uprisings, yeah they do pop up from time to time but I have my beloved military forces that just love their country and will not tolerate any "uncivilized" barbarians to dictate their puny demands.

And I don't understand why you get slower growth rate of colony if no one there to set back the progress since you have chosen Coexistance Policy - meaning you are not bothering them and they don't bothering you, as I understand it they not boosting your colonial growth nor hider it, so why penalty in growth???
I think the idea is that under normal circumstances, part of your colonial growth comes from native assimilation. If you choose to coexist with them, this does not happen.

And at the end of the day they are not leaving their homeland either - meaning they are integrated at the end of province colonization but will the province get some economical bonus from this or it doesn't matter what happened to natives? They just gone into thin air? A little bit weird? you have been coexisting together and when you done colonizing they just gone?o_O No migration to neighboring province? No wish to settle within the colonial province (may be adding a little bit economical boost to province) - just gone?
Most of the provinces in the Americas are large enough that a colonial settlement and a native settlement could coexist. In other words, when your colony becomes a city, the natives just continue doing their own thing totally independent of you.

They don't necessarily go somewhere else, but they're not part of your country either. You don't get any bonuses because they're not your citizens, and they don't migrate because they don't have to. Since you're not driving them off, and there's plenty of space, why leave?

And I'm not sure about Repression Policy either. How can you get colonial growth faster if you are in constant conflict with the natives who constantly bothering you to settle? May be when you fully eradicate them from the province you get free land and "bonus"? But than again it's like with the Coexistance Policy - no one bothering you and you just colonizing and why you getting progress bonus - just because you have more free land now? I'm asking that because in Coexistance Policy no one bothering you and you getting slower growth penalty and when no one bothering you when you killed natives you get bonus while in both cases sate of colonization is the same - no one bothering you.

Could you guys elaborate on this little bit more?
I think the idea with repression is that you are also taking a more aggressive approach to colonization, i.e. driving natives off land, bringing colonists to live on that land, driving more natives off, bringing more colonists, etc. In other words, coexistence and trade might focus on maintaining the status quo, but repression attempts to bring over as many people as possible and take over as quickly as possible.
 

TheDungen

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Native Policies (Expansion Feature)
  • Coexistance Policy means that you respect native lands and try your best to coexist with them peacefully. It removes all native uprisings from your colonies, at the expense of slower settler growth.
  • Trading Policy means that you try to maximize the economic benefit your empire derives from the natives. It increases the benefit you gain from successfully assimilating the natives.
  • Repression Policy means that you actively persecute the natives, seizing their land and wealth for your settlers. It increases the chance of native uprisings but gives you higher settler growth.

Hmmm... Coexistance Policy seems to me less advantageous compare to all others... I never had problems with native uprisings, yeah they do pop up from time to time but I have my beloved military forces that just love their country and will not tolerate any "uncivilized" barbarians to dictate their puny demands.

And I don't understand why you get slower growth rate of colony if no one there to set back the progress since you have chosen Coexistance Policy - meaning you are not bothering them and they don't bothering you, as I understand it they not boosting your colonial growth nor hider it, so why penalty in growth???

And at the end of the day they are not leaving their homeland either - meaning they are integrated at the end of province colonization but will the province get some economical bonus from this or it doesn't matter what happened to natives? They just gone into thin air? A little bit weird? you have been coexisting together and when you done colonizing they just gone?o_O No migration to neighboring province? No wish to settle within the colonial province (may be adding a little bit economical boost to province) - just gone?

And I'm not sure about Repression Policy either. How can you get colonial growth faster if you are in constant conflict with the natives who constantly bothering you to settle? May be when you fully eradicate them from the province you get free land and "bonus"? But than again it's like with the Coexistance Policy - no one bothering you and you just colonizing and why you getting progress bonus - just because you have more free land now? I'm asking that because in Coexistance Policy no one bothering you and you getting slower growth penalty and when no one bothering you when you killed natives you get bonus while in both cases state of colonization is the same - no one bothering you.

Could you guys elaborate on this little bit more?
Because in order to coexist you must always take care not to step on their toes. You don't get the best land, at least not right away and thus the economic and as a consequence population growth of the colony is slowed. While if you repress them you simply sieze the best land in the colonial province for yourself and kill anyone who tries to stop you which means more resources for the colony and more incentive for people to move there.
 

Happy Neyka

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Declare Colonial War (Expansion Feature)

Let say I'm french empire and I wage war on Britain - will this mean that if we are in colonial war with each other it means only our overseas provinces are subject to war spoils and conquest and no European provinces will be touched or subject for been invaded (been red)? Vaguely from history I recall that some similar pact existed between European countries that in colonial war only overseas provinces subject to subjugation. Is this what it means when you fight European countries in colonial wars?
 
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Unready

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Can we have some warning for protectorate is about to westernize (and get independence from you)?
If I plan to use protectorates in my war it will be unpleasant surprise if they are already not mine.
 
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Laiheuhsa

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Concerning the Native Policies, I hope there will be events where the actual settlers on the ground end up following a different policy than what the national policy is. In the Spanish Empire, for instance, the royal policy was coexistence, while locals tended towards repression, often undoing royal efforts.

Another interesting colonial element to combine with the new estate system is to have a "religious order" estate exclusive to colonial nations (Maybe only Catholic ones?). They would gain territory more rapidly but would want a high degree of autonomy for any territory they settle and would be less likely to develop that territory. They would also get a boost to the conversion of any territory they own and would be particularly hard to convert and likely to rebel if the player changes religion. Later in the game, there could be events such as the Bourbon/Pombaline Reforms which allow the player to "Banish the Jesuits," bringing those areas under more control at the cost of stability or something.
 
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Republic of Mercury

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Ahh thank you, it's actually a Common Sense DLC feature only, which is why I hadn't realized it before.

And I think if you make a nation a protectorate, and then seize territory, maybe you don't get that pesky conquest revolt risk? Might be worth it for that reason to slowly annex and core a territory, especially if you only want the coastal provinces also.

No, siezing territory from a protectorate causes nationalism. I can't think of any advantage to giving territory to a protectorate and then seizing it vs just taking it for yourself.
 

Happy Neyka

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Concerning the Native Policies, I hope there will be events where the actual settlers on the ground end up following a different policy than what the national policy is. In the Spanish Empire, for instance, the royal policy was coexistence, while locals tended towards repression, often undoing royal efforts.

Another interesting colonial element to combine with the new estate system is to have a "religious order" estate exclusive to colonial nations (Maybe only Catholic ones?). They would gain territory more rapidly but would want a high degree of autonomy for any territory they settle and would be less likely to develop that territory. They would also get a boost to the conversion of any territory they own and would be particularly hard to convert and likely to rebel if the player changes religion. Later in the game, there could be events such as the Bourbon/Pombaline Reforms which allow the player to "Banish the Jesuits," bringing those areas under more control at the cost of stability or something.

I actually like the idea of colony having "colonial estate" that will have it's interests and later will transform into other in game estates.
 

Lord_P

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Now I can be a "colonize all" Portugal without having to fund a ginormous colonial army to keep my colonies native-free!
 

Super-Soviet

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Giving away our Caribbean provinces to the dirty Spaniard? Disgraceful sir! DISGRACEFUL!
 

Beagá

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Wow expansion, not DLC. I´m impressed.

That kinda gives reason to wait some 6 months to start a new game - first to wait for the release, then to wait it to be patched :p
 

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Concede Colonial Area (Expansion Feature)
As anyone who's ever fought a war over the New World knows, making peace can be a bit of a hassle. Finding all the provinces you want in a particular colonial area, ensuring they're all selected, and so on. Concede Colonial Area gives you a bit of a shortcut by allowing you to demand every province in a particular colonial region where you already have a Colonial Nation. In addition to gaining all the provinces the enemy has in the region, using this peace option will also block them from colonizing that colonial region while you have a truce.
Although all these changes are great, I'm especially excited for stopping my rivals from colonizing straight after a colonial claim war.
 

Camarada78

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Colonial Nations - Can we get "loyalist uprisings" when a colonial nation declares independence? For now we have no internal resistence to independence.

Colonial Wars - Can we get "support native uprising" as it was pretty common in colonial wars? Here in Brazil the portuguese and the french used a lot of bribe and negotiation to get the support of local natives against each other.

Can we get Colonial Events related to "culture conversion" and "religion convesion" in any other part of my empire? Ex: when as spain, I convert Oran's (nothern africa) to catholic, there could be a great chance that muslims would appear in my colonies? And this brings me to another thing: if - for exemplo - I import slaves, usually from muslim regions from africa, can we have a chance of muslim revolts in our colonies? There are a lot of evidence of muslim slaves and merchants influx in colonial South america, and the troubles it got with the Inquisition.
 
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Concede Colonial Area (Expansion Feature)
As anyone who's ever fought a war over the New World knows, making peace can be a bit of a hassle. Finding all the provinces you want in a particular colonial area, ensuring they're all selected, and so on. Concede Colonial Area gives you a bit of a shortcut by allowing you to demand every province in a particular colonial region where you already have a Colonial Nation. In addition to gaining all the provinces the enemy has in the region, using this peace option will also block them from colonizing that colonial region while you have a truce.
mknBrOl.png

Will Colonial Regions be redesigned so that big, bountiful regions like the Caribbean and Mexico are partitioned into several, smaller regions to be exchanged through peace treaties? Because as seen in the pic, conceding the whole of the Caribbean for a mere 12% warscore seems quite too low.
 
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Cèsar de Quart

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I find the whole Native Policy screen to be problematic, not for the idea, but because it doesn't reflect the actual policies used at the time. Especially the coexistence one.

- Trading is useful for representing colonial empires based on trade routes and tariff output efficiency, like New France, Canada and Louisiane, or early Portuguese colonial empire.

- Repressions might represent English settlement, which actively drove out Natives and relocated or exterminated them, but nothing else.

- Coexistence is total fantasy. No European colony ever tried to peacefully coexist with the Natives completely. There was always subjugation (Spain), war and annihilation (England) or unfair trade conditions (France and Portugal).

And still there's no option to reflect Spanish colonization policy. I think it's easy to change these options into these four:

1- Proprietor/Encomienda.
----- Colonists are given land and natives to work the land, and they give production benefits in return. They also demand great autonomy. It's basically a Feudal system but in the Americas. The Spanish way. The idea is that colonisation can be super hard to manage and rule, so the colonies must be semi-autonomous at the beginning. Changing the system into Plantation or Population takes time and effort, and would only be possible in the early 1600's. Spain tried but never could, even in the 1720's, and alienating the criollo aristocracy only helped fuel the Latin American revolutions.
----- + stability, - - liberty desire, but average to low gains. Extra gov points? (For the lack of actual governing)

2- Plantation.
----- The focus is on production, regardless of native lives or even colonist input. This is the system that the Portuguese and most of the Caribbean colonies developed.
----- + production and benefits, - gov points (all that governing and taxation is hard), and there's also the need to import slaves, but I doubt Paradox will model the Triangular Trade into the game.

3- Trade.
------ The focus is on getting valuous products through unequal trade with the Natives. They're happy to get trinkets, guns, clothes and other manufactures, and you're happy they're giving you all that timber, silver, etc. This system can be very stable but it's not strong when it comes to war against other, more populous colonies or even Indian nations. But you can use Indians to fight your wars!
----- + trade output, - immigration, + stability. ++ diplo with Natives.

4- Population.
------ Here, the colonies are mostly a dump for your population excess (at first, anyway). Vicky engine would be perfect because it did just that, but EUIV doesn't have PoPs. Anyway, immigration can be modeled with just math and coding magic. The idea is that the metropolis wants its population excess to stop lazying around and doing bad things (like heresy) and go work and be productive in the colonies instead, where their criminal ways don't matter and where their heresy doesn't fall into the ears of decent people.
------ + production output (in time), + immigration, - stability, - - diplo with natives. The more population you get, the more benefits, but also the more liberty desire they get.
- This is, of course, the model England followed.

All this models have short time benefits (mostly, the chance of having a colonial empire that doesn't cost much but also doesn't do much), as well as long time ones, which come at a risk. The only ones that don't post a risk at long term as the ones that provide with stability or that are easy to establish (Spanish model and French model). Meanwhile, plantations are beneficial for trade and production but costly in gov points, while population colonies are slow to grow, very beneficial when they're big but very volatile.

This is the way I would have done it. Less arcade than Paradox devs and more historically guided, but maybe I'm missing something important. I'm not a game designer by any means.
 
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