Praetorian44

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Very interesting DD. I really love the ability to threaten war as this was something that I felt the game was lacking. This expansion is sounding like it may be one of my favorites.
 
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Adrian Gaming

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The granting cores and claims seems kind of strange, but the Threaten War and Grant Provinces is nice.

Still waiting on in-depth examinations of the Estate system. Been watching the Multiplayer Dev Stream and it doesn't seem all that revolutionary.
 
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TheDungen

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Eh this threaten thing and the permanent claims does seem to make forming certain tags very very powerful. You need to rewrite the system for which provinces you get perma claims for. Just a blanket everythign in x region is not a good idea with these powerful tools.

For cultural unions I'd say perma claims only on provinces of that culture group , or that has a core on it from any nation who's primary culture is of the culturegroup. For ane xample if novgorod loses it's cores on the karelian provinces russia should not get perma claims on them.
 
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grommile

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Nice. How about a threaten war over military access option?
The AI already factors its fear of your armies into the decision about whether to give you military access.

For cultural unions I'd say perma claims only on provinces of that culture group , or that has a core on it from any nation who's primary culture is of the culturegroup. For ane xample if novgorod loses it's cores on the karelian provinces russia should not get perma claims on them.
The Karelian provinces are unmitigated trash, so make a bad example of why permanent claims might be mechanically problematic.
 
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Metz

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Important Question: Will the AI be granting its vassals some provinces and claims? Or will only human players be able to do this (be able as in the AI not programmed to do this like selling provinces).



We should also be able to buy provinces, especially ones the AI doesn't really want or need, ones that have no similar culture, claims, and religion.


Finally Note: Annexation should allow use to keep the victim's ships.
 
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TheDungen

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The AI already factors its fear of your armies into the decision about whether to give you military access.


The Karelian provinces are unmitigated trash, so make a bad example of why permanent claims might be mechanically problematic.
That depends on how much you've improved them and actually Neva isn't all that bad. Often ends up as my second best province when I play LO.
And I don't know any other good examples, scandinavia and finland perhaps. scandinavia should not get claims on finland if sweden has lost it's cores there. But the finnish provinces are just as bad as the karelian ones.
The only other cultural union I know that might get claims that do not fulfill my criteria is the HRE, and quite frankly it's not really a cultural union the same way as the others are (and you end up with some wierd results of you form it as italy).


Important Question: Will the AI be granting its vassals some provinces and claims? Or will only human players be able to do this (be able as in the AI not programmed to do this like selling provinces).



We should also be able to buy provinces, especially ones the AI doesn't really want or need, ones that have no similar culture, claims, and religion.


Finally Note: Annexation should allow use to keep the victim's ships.

Mate what's with the supersized fontsize?
 
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Atlanteax

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Question!

Should you *successfully* threaten war for a province...

Does the other nation lose its core on the province?

Yes/No will affect whether the other nation can declare war later on for the core(s).

Further, it may affect the scenario where you have another nation that you are planning/hoping to diplo-vassalize, but it is slightly too big.
In this scenario, you could feasibly shrink the target nation small enough (via 'threaten war') that it will accept being vassalized (the economic development modifier).
However, current mechanics block diplo-vassalization if you own any core(s) of theirs.
 

grommile

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That depends on how much you've improved them and actually Neva isn't all that bad. Often ends up as my second best province when I play LO.
If Russia forms without already owning Neva, whoever formed it was either (a) doing something strange and audacious or (b) really slacking :)
 
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adwinistrator

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At what rate will the reduction to liberty desire decay for granting a province to a subject?

I'm curious how the balance between increasing a subject's development total and force limit, which increase the base liberty desire, and reducing liberty desire via granting them a province, will work...
 

Chaingun

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Important Question: Will the AI be granting its vassals some provinces and claims? Or will only human players be able to do this (be able as in the AI not programmed to do this like selling provinces).

AI does it if it calculates that the province is worth a lot more to its vassal than to itself.
 
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Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Wiz :). Am a big fan of the threaten war option, both in being used for and against me (on a few occasions I've been beat down by great and powerful neighbours looking for a province when I was "hey, why fight, I know you're going to win, can't I just give it to you, what about the children?"). Other options also good, looking forward to 1 December :).
 

Zqrfmb

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Threaten War looks interesting. I hope it'll be balanced though, especially with regards to demanding claims. Higher AE than if you'd done it in war perhaps?
From my understanding, the main balance to it is that you can only demand one province at a time with it, so it's a lot slower than just launching a full invasion.
 
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TheDungen

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If Russia forms without already owning Neva, whoever formed it was either (a) doing something strange and audacious or (b) really slacking :)
(c) facing a player. I was fine and allied to them to, up until they formed russia and got claims to a shit ton of stuff that they had no reason to get claims on, since I had been careful not to take anything russian (and remove any novgorod cores).

From my understanding, the main balance to it is that you can only demand one province at a time with it, so it's a lot slower than just launching a full invasion.
Then again you don't get tempted to take more and end up with more AE.
 

fabius

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AI does it if it calculates that the province is worth a lot more to its vassal than to itself.

OH, that is really excellent.
 

Zelius

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AI does it if it calculates that the province is worth a lot more to its vassal than to itself.

So is there a change to the Conquest / Reconquest CB? Currently Conquest CB using vassal's claim will cost me DIP to take provinces with only my own claims etc. If not: it seems then the most effective use of the claim transfer is to allow me to fabricate another claim on the same province I intend to give to a vassal, if I intend to take other provinces with claim myself, using my own conquest CB.