"EU4 Dev Clash #8 - 1444: A Historical Oddity" - Tuesdays 15:00CEST

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pizzalord123

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Well everyone say thing abouts starnan.

Meanwile salty one is alone on a island once again. NO player to fight NO big nation to slow him down.

But his only way to expander is colonize or fight your way into Europe mainland.
 

agentgb

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Hopefully this will cause some bitter exchanges between the devs, in my effort to stir chaos.

It's in Da9L interest to pay attention to European affairs to ensure the salt flows, and the salt trade isn't hindered.
 

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sabrewolfacs

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Well everyone say thing abouts starnan.
Meanwile salty one is alone on a island once again. NO player to fight NO big nation to slow him down.
But his only way to expander is colonize or fight your way into Europe mainland.

I think you and a couple of other commenters overrate the first (few) session(s). And I admit that I tend to do the same.

Just think about the last Dev MP:
  • When gnivom took over Nogai, he rapidly took over most of western Soviet area. People thought he'd dominate but then got wrecked by the multiple wars
  • Da9l had pretty much all of North America and was allied to France and the largest empire but succumbed to hug-box armies and turn-cloak navies
  • When Jake unified east india and all of SEA, he broke Bahmanis and severely weakened StarNaN's gujarat... the former was resurrected on another continent, the latter won.
    Arguably, StarNan and Ihki played better in the December Dev MP that. But there they lost due to diplomacy (Wiz making the world fight him), while in Q1/2017 the two where on the bigger side of the war.
I personally will try to refrain from predicting a winner until a couple of minutes before the end of the final session ;)

I will only dare to say: based on what I saw in the last two sessions only few players have shown that they actually have the ambition to actively pursue victory (StarNaN, Da9l, Wiz, Bratyn, maybe Johan), some seem in it mainly for fun (groogy, LetterZ), some pursue a particular non-victory goal (esp. Fido), while most jseem to be happy to grow in the shadow of the giants...
That being said: I hope to be surprised and proven wrong... ;)
 

LittleFido

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Well, this particular session, I aim to have a BLAST.
And if worst comes to worst, go out with a BOOM.
(Can someone guess what my ideas are centered around?)
Also, I play primarily for fun and to create a "good show" of some sort, to win is tertiary.
 
Last edited:

Nikotinlaus

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I will only dare to say: based on what I saw in the last two sessions only few players have shown that they actually have the ambition to actively pursue victory (StarNaN, Da9l, Wiz, Bratyn, maybe Johan),
I see a similar tendency that a lot of players seem not realy doing all they could to win in the end, which is obviously fine for a mostly fun game that is supposed to show off some of the new features but it is from the perspective of me as a viewer also a bit sad. FFA-style games and games which rely in great parts on diplomacy between the players are usually at its best when every single player is gunning for Nr1 and Nr1 only. I have a background in semi-competetive board and cardgaming and in most ffa games there are actual rules in play that either punish so called "king-making" or just only hand out trophys for first place only.
 

agentgb

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I see a similar tendency that a lot of players seem not realy doing all they could to win in the end, which is obviously fine for a mostly fun game that is supposed to show off some of the new features but it is from the perspective of me as a viewer also a bit sad. FFA-style games and games which rely in great parts on diplomacy between the players are usually at its best when every single player is gunning for Nr1 and Nr1 only. I have a background in semi-competetive board and cardgaming and in most ffa games there are actual rules in play that either punish so called "king-making" or just only hand out trophys for first place only.

imo anything goes when it comes to wargames, within reason, StarNaN & Imse forming a extremely close cooperation isn't wrong, although the victory will taste less sweet, since people will know how it was achieved, and for those without allies, the more glory to go around for them if they can pull of some great feats. I guess the exploit StarNaN & Imse used, that turns StarNaN troops super soldiers with Panzerschokolade is a bit underhanded, but then i've already got them labelled has the villains because of it, and would rather see dev punishing them within the scope of the game by forming a grand alliance to cut them down to size.

For me, when it comes to winning, obviously there is the ultimate victor, the guy with the highest score, and given certain peoples starting locations, they may have a slighty better chance at achieving it, for me, i value those moments that show great statementship, military prowness, and being able to win the public admiration, has a champion to root for. It's the moments that determine a real victory, even a small one, in the sense a victory harder obtained is a great victory then having a zerg alliance and stomping eveything. I don't think King making is a terrible bad idea or under handed, since it a viable strat, so longs you stand to benefit from it, although the victory is less sweet.

I do agree that all players should really pursue there own interest for expansion, but then i am sympathetic to players who may wish to surivive the game instead of being player killed, since surviving is a victory in itself, especially if the odds are stacked up against you. If that means bending the knee to a great power to secure a border, i haven't a problem with that, it all plays into the bigger picture and affect the geopolitical nature of the game, creating story telling.

In the end, there will be winners, losers and runner ups, and there nothing wrong with that, but obviously, taking down the leading power/player/alliance should be a general goal of everyone. Being part of a winning coaltion is a victory in itself also, whcih i suspect i can see happening int his game, that coaltions will be formed in europe for a grand war.
 
Last edited:

Dnote

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Hopefully this will cause some bitter exchanges between the devs, in my effort to stir chaos.

Interesting to get a succinct perspective on everyone and their possible futures. Whilst playing we're generally quite focused on our own tasks and immediate area, so what has been happening in the East has only been something I've been vaguely aware of until after the session ended. As for my actual long term plans, I think it's fair to say that I'm keeping my options open. Last session I went into it following Groogy's lead and whilst it taught me a lot, it did narrow my options significantly by the time the AI was gone, I was never going to be more than a bit part player because of how things panned out. This time, I'd like be flexible enough that I can contribute more throughout the whole campaign (even if it means getting wiped out and starting again somewhere else).

I will only dare to say: based on what I saw in the last two sessions only few players have shown that they actually have the ambition to actively pursue victory (StarNaN, Da9l, Wiz, Bratyn, maybe Johan), some seem in it mainly for fun (groogy, LetterZ), some pursue a particular non-victory goal (esp. Fido), while most jseem to be happy to grow in the shadow of the giants...
That being said: I hope to be surprised and proven wrong... ;)

Last campaign my only intention was to survive my first dev mp through to the end, which I did, even though I missed the last two sessions for it. This time around, I see no reason not to go all out and aim for a trophy, or at the very least have an impact on where the trophies end up. And whilst some of the players may not be trophy hunters, they can all influence how the leaderboard ends up, no one is completely passive (though some of them may not realize when is the time to strike until it's too late). :)
 

Lordban

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I vote Chaos :D

And am looking forward to seeing what cool build Fido is going to pull out after the last two :)
Oh, and if possible, something as cool and kickass as Da9l putting the hurt on a hugbox six times his size for more than a decade :p That was awesome entertainment as well.
 

agentgb

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Interesting to get a succinct perspective on everyone and their possible futures. Whilst playing we're generally quite focused on our own tasks and immediate area, so what has been happening in the East has only been something I've been vaguely aware of until after the session ended. As for my actual long term plans, I think it's fair to say that I'm keeping my options open. Last session I went into it following Groogy's lead and whilst it taught me a lot, it did narrow my options significantly by the time the AI was gone, I was never going to be more than a bit part player because of how things panned out. This time, I'd like be flexible enough that I can contribute more throughout the whole campaign (even if it means getting wiped out and starting again somewhere else).

It's great to watch multiplayer games, especially the dev ones playing there own game :p, since the notion that devs are inheritably gods at there own game, i generally do similar break downs when i'm playing my own, i've always subscribed to the thought that if you can understand a countries geopolitics, and relations, you may understand what there interest are. Probably wrong though, just doing it for fun. If you get wiped out dude, that no problem, i kinda gathered you aren't of the same level has Da9L or StarNaN, but i sense you're enjoying it, and can only earn great renown by fighting well, especially against one of the more renowned players. So you haven't really much to lose.
 
Last edited:

Meneth

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upload_2017-5-3_20-9-24.png
When our great dynasty was named, many were confused. They though, "but what if people confuse us with the food, rather than realizing we're named after a piece of furniture? Might they then not be tempted to sample the selection?".
But the great founder of the dynasty said "surely not, for they have all pledged not to attack us in the coming decades, and they are men of their word."
And throughout much the founder's life, this held true. Peace reigned, save for some skirmishes against lesser powers.
But all things come to an end. After 22 years of rule, an attack came. We were beset from the south and east by a combined force thrice the size of our own, yet we did not despair.
The founder could not handle these broken promises, and suffered a stroke a mere five wars after the hostilities began.
But we had prepared for war. We had made the very mountains themselves our fortress, so that any enemy would have to come at us at a place of our choosing, and any battle would be joined only at a time of our choosing. We had no ally but the mountains, but what an ally they were.
We fought the invaders again and again, outnumbered every time. Due to sheer numbers, each battle ended in our withdrawal, yet every time we recovered, and attacked once more.
Half a dozen times we tried to break their sieges, and half a dozen times we were forced to retreat.
The situation is still bleak. We are still outnumbered 3 to 2, and they have the potential to raise yet more.
Yet we can say this.
We. Made. Them. Bleed.

As we look at the battlefields of Tirol and Kärntern, they are littered with corpses. Many of them wear our blue livery, yet still more wear the red, black, and green of the Southerners.
None may truly know how many men have died these past forty months, yet estimates say that while 50 000 Canapé lives have been lost, near 90 000 Southerners are gone.
The Army of Copper is no more; it is brought down to a few thousand men.
The Free army is similarly reduced, now amounting to a mere nine thousand.
Only the Balkanite army still stands strong, yet it too has exausted its reserves on the mountains.

We've bled. So have they.
As we look down from the mountains we can truly say: we would have made the founder proud.
 

C.N.

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As we look at the battlefields of Tirol and Kärntern, they are littered with corpses. Many of them wear our blue livery, yet still more wear the red, black, and green of the Southerners.
None may truly know how many men have died these past forty months, yet estimates say that while 50 000 Canapé lives have been lost, near 90 000 Southerners are gone.
The Army of Copper is no more; it is brought down to a few thousand men.
The Free army is similarly reduced, now amounting to a mere nine thousand.
Only the Balkanite army still stands strong, yet it too has exausted its reserves on the mountains.

So, was this all an evil plan by the player-slayer to get rid of the armies of his "allies"? Bleed them out against Meneth, and then stab them?
 

Lordban

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So, was this all an evil plan by the player-slayer to get rid of the armies of his "allies"? Bleed them out against Meneth, and then stab them?
It is one thing to lose a war, it is another thing to lose a war your ally started and get backstabbed and annexed by him right after that.
 

Bugnr01

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When our great dynasty was named, many were confused. They though, "but what if people confuse us with the food, rather than realizing we're named after a piece of furniture? Might they then not be tempted to sample the selection?".
But the great founder of the dynasty said "surely not, for they have all pledged not to attack us in the coming decades, and they are men of their word."
And throughout much the founder's life, this held true. Peace reigned, save for some skirmishes against lesser powers.
But all things come to an end. After 22 years of rule, an attack came. We were beset from the south and east by a combined force thrice the size of our own, yet we did not despair.
The founder could not handle these broken promises, and suffered a stroke a mere five wars after the hostilities began.
But we had prepared for war. We had made the very mountains themselves our fortress, so that any enemy would have to come at us at a place of our choosing, and any battle would be joined only at a time of our choosing. We had no ally but the mountains, but what an ally they were.
We fought the invaders again and again, outnumbered every time. Due to sheer numbers, each battle ended in our withdrawal, yet every time we recovered, and attacked once more.
Half a dozen times we tried to break their sieges, and half a dozen times we were forced to retreat.
The situation is still bleak. We are still outnumbered 3 to 2, and they have the potential to raise yet more.
Yet we can say this.
We. Made. Them. Bleed.

As we look at the battlefields of Tirol and Kärntern, they are littered with corpses. Many of them wear our blue livery, yet still more wear the red, black, and green of the Southerners.
None may truly know how many men have died these past forty months, yet estimates say that while 50 000 Canapé lives have been lost, near 90 000 Southerners are gone.
The Army of Copper is no more; it is brought down to a few thousand men.
The Free army is similarly reduced, now amounting to a mere nine thousand.
Only the Balkanite army still stands strong, yet it too has exausted its reserves on the mountains.

We've bled. So have they.
As we look down from the mountains we can truly say: we would have made the founder proud.

Thats how we Tiroler fight. Lure them into the mountains and inlict as much damage as you can. A a tyrolean peasant army was able to beat the bayern and the french in 1809 and inflicted a lot of casualitys.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrolean_Rebellion
I may have to say that we lost at the end and the leader of the rebellion was executed and the land annexed again but that are minor details.
 

Servancour

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All in all, I had a decent first session. My only fear was that Pegu was going to be an annoying thorn in my side, considering their starting size, but they were a lot easier to deal with than I thought they would be. Cleaning up the rest of them shouldn't be very difficult.

@Servancour @DDRJake "Phrygia" is pronounced "frygia", that "ph" is a bog standard f-sound-spelled-with-ph-because-it's-originally-greek "ph". Just to inform you, and hopefully save anyone from ever again hearing "prygia".

Yeah, I went to look it up just after the stream, as I suspected something like that was the case. Cheers for pointing it out though. :)
 

Trin Tragula

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The Tragulian people suffer under the rule of foreign tyrants. While our neighbors joined forces to partition our lands it seems the duplicity did not end there.
With horror we looked on as the former allies started fighting each other over the spoils of their conquests, and when the ruthenian people themselves rose against their masters we did not hesitate to join to deal the killing blow to the Rurikan despot.
As this age draws to and end our people remain divided and subdued but our state remains strong and determined to survive.
 

Lordban

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The Tragulian people suffer under the rule of foreign tyrants. While our neighbors joined forces to partition our lands it seems the duplicity did not end there.
With horror we looked on as the former allies started fighting each other over the spoils of their conquests, and when the ruthenian people themselves rose against their masters we did not hesitate to join to deal the killing blow to the Rurikan despot.
As this age draws to and end our people remain divided and subdued but our state remains strong and determined to survive.

Will the Tragulian people survive? Will they be partitioned a second, third and fourth time because, let's face it, they're in Poland? Will DDRJake remember it's Phrygia, not Prygia? Find out in the next exciting episode of 1444: A Historical Oddity which, by the way, totally won't happen in 1444 either in game or in reality!​

Format shamelessly pilfered from phargle.
 

King

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It is now definitely Pygia, we have a reputation to maintain for mispronouncing things.
 
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