EU4 Dev Clash #10 - Rule Britannia - Tuesdays 15:00 CET

[Bratyn]

Jfoytek's Weekly Power Rankings Week 3

This Week we saw the K.Johan choke on his meal, Bratyn successfully slowed the Byzantine Horde.

10) Last Week: Trin Tragula

This Week: Bratyn (Previously 4rth) Fell 6 Places

How can a country who is no longer left on the map place 10th this week? Because this is not a top 10 country ranking its a ranking of the top 10 players in the game. Bratyn's choices this week were a bit UN Orthodox, were they honorable? Maybe? Were they done for game balance? Or were they done for a Saltier reason? I think the intentions are grey and its easy to spin a tale of either an evil Bratyn who acted with great dishonor or a heroic Bratyn that sacrificed himself for the world?!? Whatever it was, it did act as a speed bump at the cost of his exit stage right.

[...]

1)Last Week: K Johan

This Week: K Johan (Previously 1rst) No Change

K Johan had an off week, thanks in no small way to Bratyn, using himself as poison to slow down the growth of the Fake Byzantines! While we definitely saw some interesting province selling, I can't help but wonder if K.Johan didn't end this session felling a little bit less dominate then he thought he was! I sensed weakness in the interview almost like his confidence has slipped a little bit and he is unsure, with talks of peace, and not quite the normal aura of superiority he typically has.

I'm quite honored to even be in the rankings this week, though I do have to correct you somewhat and point out that, technically, Kazan is still present on the map However, I find your closing remarks on KaiserJohan's reduced confidence to be the greatest praise I could receive. Though people are sure to interpret my actions in wildly different manners, and ascribe me all manner of motivations, I personally am satisfied that I was able to prevent things from going entirely according to KaiserJohan's plans, and that this caused, however small, a perceptible lapse in confidence on his part.

 

[BjornB]

Oh, and I think MikeSC is also a power player, hence my participation in the quite unfair beating of him in the first session.

 

[StarNaN]

Honestly in my opinion the problem is not with the mixture of skilled players the problem is the policy of giving the best players first pick of the best nations!!!

There is Zero reason that
Bratyn
Trin
K Johan
Johan
StarNan

should start as nations like:
Ottomans
England
Austria
France
Spain

If they put these top tier lvl players in appropriately weaker country's then you might see more balance in the world....

To be fair, I had to random my nation and could get pretty awful nations for a multiplayer. I said prior to multiplayer starting that letting winning team pick nations will be a disaster.
I still think this can be a decent campaign. I think me, France + Castile would have a chance against Hungary + Byzantium. I don't think they are as strong as everyone says.

 

[BjornB]

I'm quite honored to even be in the rankings this week, though I do have to correct you somewhat and point out that, technically, Kazan is still present on the map However, I find your closing remarks on KaiserJohan's reduced confidence to be the greatest praise I could receive. Though people are sure to interpret my actions in wildly different manners, and ascribe me all manner of motivations, I personally am satisfied that I was able to prevent things from going entirely according to KaiserJohan's plans, and that this caused, however small, a perceptible lapse in confidence on his part.

I'm a bit salty about not being on this list despite beating down Hungarians and Swedes (both highly ranked here) while being invaded by Byz

 

[Monphat]

Man I can't help but disagree with most of this....

Nobody should be throwing in the towel at this point...
Have you looked at Carsten in Sweden??? Give it another session to develop and thats going to be scary!
StarNan has even finished swallowing the HRE yet... He is far from out of this thing....
And the Unholy alliance is still stronger then everyone if they coordinate!!!

No I don't see this game as already won in any way shape or form...

But I do agree with one point and that is their is a large group of players who play single player. But the wolves do need sheep to eat!!!

Do you believe that Western powers are going to attack an even stronger Byzantium on its own turf after their last attempt?
Do you believe that Austria would fight Byzantium instead of partitioning the Europe for a time being?
Do you believe that any of the powers in Asia are going to touch Byzantium + Persia?
Do you believe that Sweden has anything to gain by attacking Byzantium instead of ruling Russia as its ally?
Do you believe that West, Austria, Sweden and anyone else is willing and capable of coordinating their actions against Byzantium?

 

[Bratyn]

Who knows what I could do with a mighty nation? Lithuania is not that bad though. I got intimidated at the start however, surrounded by StarNan's pack (I was convinced Hungary was basically Austria before the game started), Carsten, Bratyn and Kaiser. Players I knew all go all in for #1.

I think you showed today that my criticism of you after the Coalition War was unfounded. You fought bravely against the Hungarians and the Swedes. I can only apologize for that, and for dragging you along in my demise by my insistence to oppose Byzantine growth. We could have done better if we had waited for longer, but I feared that if nobody acted right then, it would be too late. I wish you the best of luck in your continued wars, and look to you as a shining example of Eastern fighting spirit

 

[BjornB]

I think you showed today that my criticism against you after the Coalition War was unfounded. You fought bravely against the Hungarians and the Swedes. I can only apologize for that, and if I dragged you along in my demise by my insistence to oppose Byzantine growth. We could have done better if we had waited for longer, but I feared that if nobody acted right then, it would be too late. I wish you the best of luck in your continued wars, and look to you as shining example of Eastern fighting spirit

My lack of understanding (and attention) of others movements and plans was a big factor in our failure. I understand your frustration. Like I've said many times already. If I had known about that first battle I think this game could have developed very differently :/

 

[dynalon]

To be fair, I had to random my nation and could get pretty awful nations for a multiplayer. I said prior to multiplayer starting that letting winning team pick nations will be a disaster.
I still think this can be a decent campaign. I think me, France + Castile would have a chance against Hungary + Byzantium. I don't think they are as strong as everyone says.

Maybe it's an option to let rank 4-6 choose nations pick nations in the next clash instead? (and, hindsight being 20/20, the Indian Triumvirate in this one) Getting a trophy, and by extension unlimited bragging rights, should be enough of a reward, and this would give players in the middle of the score chart more of an incentive to keep pushing for score.

I sincerely hope that you're right and that we'll have a proper counterweight to be Byzantine powerblock, which is even growing in numbers of players, given that Aragon and Persia seem to be content to be Blurple's lap dogs. I feel a bit bad that my current train of thought is "punish the player that has had the strongest game", but an unpunished Kaiser would make the rest of this clash pretty boring, at least for me. Honestly, I already found today's session rather frustrating to watch, since the Great Curbstomping Parade from the last clash was threatening to make a big comeback and I'd really like a butt-clenching player war for a change.

 

[Zak Preston]

You guys need to play with some experienced MP players from this forum. I bet you will find out about so many exploits, abuses and "lifehacks" that you will want to fix them asap

 

[Viperswhip]

You guys need to play with some experienced MP players from this forum. I bet you will find out about so many exploits, abuses and "lifehacks" that you will want to fix them asap

There has been such inclusion in the past, but let's just say performance was not great due to lag.

 

[Inquisitor Silenus]

I do agree that it would be more interesting for someone like KJ to triumph in the final session over session 3, however I feel that Byzantium is being treated like the villain from that Alt-History book "The Dragon Awakens": like they are being led by an undying vampire-emperor whose plans see forever into the future and will slowly but inevitably absorb the world. It's like he won one coalition war and suddenly everyone is running around like chickens screaming "game over man, game over!"

As long as the rest of the world gets off their butt and decides to "bring the fight" instead of going for the safest options available to them, we'll be fine as far as interesting games go. Might be a big if, though... No war between Western Coalition and Starnan, Starnan beats up players who could never hope to oppose him, Western Coalition too busy beating up people weaker than them to fight anyone... Even Bratyn and co didn't attack Muscovy and Byzantium unless they were at the head of a huge coalition, or (in Bratyn and Poland's case) after they were doomed and had little to lose. Where's the risk-taking? Where's the fight-bringing? Come on people! You have nothing to lose but your shame!

Maybe it's an option to let rank 4-6 choose nations pick nations in the next clash instead? (and, hindsight being 20/20, the Indian Triumvirate in this one) Getting a trophy, and by extension unlimited bragging rights, should be enough of a reward, and this would give players in the middle of the score chart more of an incentive to keep pushing for score.

Honestly they should let the worst players pick first if anything: Imagine the Starnans and KaiserJohans of the world being the small fry Mecklenburg and Pomerania of an HRE-fish tank dominated by Austria-Groogary.

given that Aragon and Persia seem to be content to be Blurple's lap dogs.

Why do people gotta beat up on Aragon? What were its alternatives? They can't all be Poland. Countries like Morocco and Aragon wouldn't even exist if they didn't go to Byz for help, and it's not Byz that were their biggest threats. (Incidentally, the whole Morroco tech-sharing thing was hilarious, especially how he said later how it was basically funding his entire economy.)

 

[MrSnert]

This run turned from potentially very interesting and previously very entertaining, into a frustrating and boring watch.

If I wanted to see overpowered, superior coalitions of advanced states beat up on smaller, poorer, diplomatically isolated countries, I can just turn on the news.

We are not entertained!

 

[Mx94]

 

[kentun]

@Bratyn , IMO Byz unstoppable run is your responsibility. Western & Eastern Powers agreed with your cause, even Sweden abandoned its alliance with Byz. However, you failed to coordinate invasion and The Grand Coalition Army destroyed in Bulgaria.

It seems to me that you are salty about diplomatic situation (cmiiw) when the real problem is that you were unready to lead the coalition.

 

[dragoon9105]

The responsibility for a Coalition lies in the most powerful member of the coalition unless he defers. Its just as important to show respect to the majors in mp when they are on your side and when they aren't.

The Guardians of the Balance of Power in the early game are France, the Ottomans and Austria. Since the Ottomans are Rogue the Blame lies with France for the coalition's failure. Not even counting his performance within the war.

Though considering the Western Hugbox is a thing, I'm not really surprised France dropped the ball, or that Starnan has been hesitant to deal with the big bad wolf of Europe.

There's nothing wrong with Passive players, but if your going to put strong players into strong countries, you need to offset that with strong players in other strong countries. Dan, Jake and Wiz come to mind, Jake hasn't been let out of the Box since big trouble in Little China, He could have easily played France instead of Trig.

This is reminiscent of the Renaissance Ducat party utterly collapsing last Dev Clash. Which enabled P-Russia and Bratyn's alliance splitting Europe for free. Foundation before the house, as it were.

 

[Viking]

Sometimes I have to remind myself the devs aren't very good at this game. Everybody and his dog should have realized that after the coalition the Kaiser was going to murder Bratyn and as much of the coalition as possile. It's not surprising that he sized up his neighbors by skill and decided that BjornB needed to die, simply by virtue of not using his 3 star general in the war vs byzantium when he could have made a difference.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin 'the coalition needed to hang together or they would hang separately". They didn't so they are hanging separately.

 

[jfoytek]

To be fair, I had to random my nation and could get pretty awful nations for a multiplayer. I said prior to multiplayer starting that letting winning team pick nations will be a disaster.
I still think this can be a decent campaign. I think me, France + Castile would have a chance against Hungary + Byzantium. I don't think they are as strong as everyone says.

I agree this match is not over I have said it time and again there is still plenty of power left in the world thats not Byzantium.... I still think you have played things right to date, I still think the western alliance really didnt need to stick there neck out early as they did.... I don't think anything is over yet....

 

[Peppy]

Do you believe that Western powers are going to attack an even stronger Byzantium on its own turf after their last attempt?
Do you believe that Austria would fight Byzantium instead of partitioning the Europe for a time being?
Do you believe that any of the powers in Asia are going to touch Byzantium + Persia?
Do you believe that Sweden has anything to gain by attacking Byzantium instead of ruling Russia as its ally?
Do you believe that West, Austria, Sweden and anyone else is willing and capable of coordinating their actions against Byzantium?

I think that Starnan should try to rally people behind him putting Hungary under PU. It's a lot to ask, but he has some balance-of-power arguments:
- Austria is the only nation powerful enough to contend with Byzantium. Detaching Hungary from Byzantium's hip and giving it to Austria will bolster his position to protect western Europe from the Byzantines.
-Hungary PU war goal will give the allies focus. This will make coordination easier.
- The coalition should try to recruit Persia by offering to go to war again to strip Byzantium of any Persian land.
- Johan would probably be open to joining the coalition. The last time that Johan played England he saw himself as upholding the balance of power. If he joins the war then England's navy will be a huge tool, especially if the allies capture Constantinople.
-Most of the big powers are probably persuadable. Kaiser Johan already threatened to put the King of Aragon on the Spanish throne. England has nothing to lose being so far away. Sweden might join if offered bits of Denmark, but even if ForzaA doesn't join on the side of the allies, he'll probably stay neutral like always. France might join if offered bits of central Europe. Pretty much everybody else is a target, or will be.

 

[jfoytek]

I'm a bit salty about not being on this list despite beating down Hungarians and Swedes (both highly ranked here) while being invaded by Byz

BjornB your one of my favorites man! There is no need for salt, you have been hovering at the 11, 12 mark the entire game with Servancour, but only 10 can make the list. I think maybe you were a bit passive this game to date maybe even dare I say friendly.... Poland was week they were food to be eaten but you nurtured Poland instead of eating them. Its great to be loyal but if your ally is weak at some point you need to cut the cord. I think your friendly and loyal play leads you into hot water but each dev clash there is no doubt your improving!

 

[jfoytek]

Do you believe that Western powers are going to attack an even stronger Byzantium on its own turf after their last attempt?
Do you believe that Austria would fight Byzantium instead of partitioning the Europe for a time being?
Do you believe that any of the powers in Asia are going to touch Byzantium + Persia?
Do you believe that Sweden has anything to gain by attacking Byzantium instead of ruling Russia as its ally?
Do you believe that West, Austria, Sweden and anyone else is willing and capable of coordinating their actions against Byzantium?

I believe its in StarNan's interest to keep feeding on the HRE, he is making himself stronger and more capable of fighting K.Johan. Think of it like an arms race! Austria doesnt have to actively fight the Byzantines if it grows just as quickly, which it is.... All those European provinces StarNan is eating are far more development rich then that border gore line of the Byzantines snaking up thru the Steppes....

I am not convinced Persia is anything yet. An ally is at its most fundamental state is an enemy your not ready to fight. Why is K.Johan allied to Persia, because his eyes are West, his goals in his mind lay in the west. And I am not sure he is ready to take that bite. His next step's after he finishes feeding Lithuania to Hungry and himself is the Italy. But I don't think he is ready for that fight, in fact I bet he hesitates and maybe decides to play it safe and goes back to eating the Mameluke's...

As for Persia, I dont see it getting alot of military aid from the Byzantines and to be frank if Persia pulls the byzantines into wars for it to gain territory against Groogy or Mikesc then thats manpower lose and time that really isnt aiding K.Johan.

So no this Persia Byzantine alliance doesn't ruffle my feathers in the least...

I do believe that Carsten has plenty to gain bye doing just what you said. As there can only be 1 winner and the last I checked Carsten is a person who is firmiliar with this goal and is indeed playing to win it.... Though again the game isnt over yet and he doesn't need to break his alliance yet or rock the boat there is still plenty of land to eat in norway, muskovy, and lithuania, and the game is far from over but its foulish to think Carsten is happy to play for second place.

I think the Western alliance is more then capable of coordinating against the Byzantines, at the same time its NOT in there interest to do so. IF StarNan and K.Johan were to come to blows and things were looking badly for StarNan THEN its in there interest to intercede but right now the Byzantines do not threaten there power base nor does it have the power to compete with them. Strong Byzantines keeps Austria's attention and keeps Austria from threatening France....