EU4 Dev Clash #10 - Rule Britannia - Tuesdays 15:00 CET

EU4 Dev Clash #10 - Rule Britannia - Tuesdays 15:00 CET

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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Heradite

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I have, and it was terrifying. But never underestimate a good Prussia. Unless StarNaN pulls the powerplay of becoming Prussia. I just want to see a fair deathbattle between StarNaN and KaiserJohan. It seems it won't happen if things proceed to go like this though.

Just going to point out Denmark gave the Prussian provinces to Poland so....it'll be Poland becoming Prussia maybe.
 

NimitzOfStars

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The First Grande Coalition-
Units of the Coalition
France, Castile, England- Western (Highest players were tech 8)
Infantry- Men At Arms/Long bow (Tech 5 unit) 3 pips (1/0,0,1,0/1)
Cavalry- Western Medieval Knights (Tech 1 unit) 3 pips (1,0/1,1,1/0)

Poland, Lithuania- Eastern
Infantry- Eastern Militia (Tech 5) 4 pips (1,1,1,1)
Cavalry- Stratioti Cavalry (Tech 6) 5 pips (2,1,1,1)

Kazan- Nomad
Infantry- Eastern Archers (Tech 1) 4 pips (1,1,1,1)
Cavalry- Eastern X Cavalry (Tech 1) 6 pips (2/1,1,2,1/2)

Mameluke- Muslim
Infantry- Muslim Duel Infantry (Tech 5) 4 pips (1,1,1,1)
Cavalry- Shayhanid Cavalry (Tech 6) 6 pips (2,1,1,2)

vs

Byzantium- Anatolian
Infantry- Azab Infantry (Tech 5) 5 pips (1,1,2,1)
Cavalry- Timariot Cavalry (Tech 6) 6 pips (2,1,2,1)

Hungary- Eastern
Infantry- Eastern Militia (Tech 5) 4 pips (1,1,1,1)
Cavalry- Stratioti Cavalry (Tech 6) 5 pips (2,1,1,1)


So just a quick look but the western alliance players were the least competitive forces out there being 3 pips behind in cav as opposed to matching or a pip behind for everyone else and a full 2 pips behind in infantry as opposed to 1 pip behind for everyone else. Combine that with a Byz general that seemed to give +2 during one of the phases (shock i think) even when an enemy 3 star general was there you can see a major edge developing.

So france facing azab, azab get +1 shock attack and +1 or +2 morale attack depending on which unit they had, in return the western infantry attack pips were -1 or 0 for shock negated by enemy pips for morale. Cav comparison is worse +1 or +2 to shock and +2 or +1 to morale for byz, western in return are +0. Then take off at least 2 on shock phase for western and add 2 for byz thanks to the better general. for end totals of +3 S +2/3 M for inf at a return of -3/-2 S -2 M.

Going to assume tech 8 for all players though some were at 7 (but byz were 8).
(15+5* (dice roll+3 (byz) -3 or -2 (westerners)) *.95 (shock tech modifier) or 3 (morale modifier) * (1+combat ability [none so far i think]) * byz disc/western disc (inverse for western attack rolls) The last one most players were either 100 or 105, byz was 115, so 1 or 1.1 on the attack and .87 or .91 for the western side attacking.

Hope that illustrates part of the situation that they were running into. Please note Byz had the best morale in the war and on top of that have 2 pips of morale damage to 0 or 1 for western troops.
 

Bratyn

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He should've looked for a deal with Byz, not to destroy them.

I appreciate the sentiment, however... This would not only have made for a very boring stream, it would have also been the cheap/easy way out, involved "making do with 2nd place", and not in the least meant breaking a lot of deals I had already made with other players.
 

Regaccio

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HAIL THE TATAR SLAYER, THE PUNISHER OF BARBARIANS, THE BULWARK OF CIVILIZATION! WIPER OF STACKS, MASTER OF DISCIPLINE, THE TRUE ROMAN EMPEROR! AVE CAESAR!
Show Inferiority CB.jpg
 

Heradite

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I appreciate the sentiment, however... This would not only have made for a very boring stream, it would have also been the cheap/easy way out, involved "making do with 2nd place", and not in the least meant breaking a lot of deals I had already made with other players.

Instead you took one for the team and we all wonder if us lowly mortals could take you on in a EU4 war.
 

masterpeng

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Nobody actually pointed out the smart move KaiserJohan did at the beginning of week 1 by hiring a lot of mercs. Now he doesn't need to worry as much about his manpower or sacrificing professionality.
 

NimitzOfStars

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Is Byzantium Defender of the Faith? That would give them both an extra 5% morale along with the war exhaustion reduction and with the low amount of orthodox in europe they would not be called into other wars (except for muscovy).
 

Demerino

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I appreciate the sentiment, however... This would not only have made for a very boring stream, it would have also been the cheap/easy way out, involved "making do with 2nd place", and not in the least meant breaking a lot of deals I had already made with other players.

I guess you're honorable in your ways. I just fear that you'll get steamrolled by the Byzantines in the next sessions. Here's to hoping that doesn't happen. I love my Kazan.
 

Dominion

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Haven't watched the episode yet, but I wanted to say how glad I am you're doing this :)

It's a great way to promote the game to newer players ("Their own developers are streaming it!") and the internal banter and plotting is really interesting to watch.

Special thanks to Groovy Groggy Goofy Gandhi the guy who should get a roleplay trophy for every dev clash he ever participated in :D
 

KaiserJohan

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Dude! Cmon! at least report real things. I was the first into all the byz battles since I was the one standing in the provinces getting attacked >_> in both the coalition wars I fought many battles and bround a lot of warscore for that, the one time someone looked it was when I went to seige down the war leader instead of endlessly chasing small HRE minor armies. I'm more than happy to be the end of a joke as long as it's not the straight opposite of what really happned. So if you want, just put me a rank 10,000, but don't spread lies.

This. Can confirm Castilian troops were amongst the first into every battle. The first battle nearly opened up with a stackwipe though - running stacks lower than combat width is a death sentence. We have all learned that the hard way :)

Also mad props to Sidestep in Hungary for helping out despite a very gloomy outlook at the beginning of the war. Rome rewards her friends and those willing to stay out despite pressure from the coalition have been noted.

Tech group matters. Alot. Anatolian units are mad strong early game but lategame as we saw last season Western units absolutely steamrolls them in the last part of the game. France, Castille and Poland have superior NIs aswell - this is where Byzantium must gain momentum or fall by the wayside...
 
Last edited:

Dell19

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Who are Bohemia allied with? If Hungary is going to eat Southern Poland next session then they could grab the north.
 

MrSnert

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Bratyn was completely right to organise a coalition against Byzantium, and it's sad that he's now likely to be the main target of KaiserJohan's wrath simply because he's the only one with the tactical acumen and diplomatic skill to muster such a force. Really, it shouldn't have to be Kazan that takes on that role, especially since he could have easily made a deal and just expanded east as a stand-in Russia. He's honourable, smart and right to have done what he did.

Having said that, Byzantium's enemies should have helped the eastern bloc when they were being attacked, they should not have such an unbalanced coalition (I know they still didn't win exactly, but it shouldn't just be the whole world against one) and they shouldn't have been so (seemingly) cocky (these last two, I think, are related). All of which made me root for KaiserJohan in the War of the Grand Coalition. I think Bratyn would have been better served to have organised with Mamluks, QQ, the Pope and possibly some others in the region(!) over the break. Better IMO to have a smaller, better organised band of regional players who are actually invested in the fight and are willing to see it through, rather than a vast merry band of happy go lucky distant opportunists and adventurers.

But who knows, maybe he tried. I don't really trust the Coalition to come to his aid when the time comes, but if anyone has the skills to navigate the gathering storm, it's Bratyn.
 

Heradite

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This. Can confirm Castilian troops were amongst the first into every battle. The first battle nearly opened up with a stackwipe though - running stacks lower than combat width is a death sentence. We have all learned that the hard way :)

Also mad props to Sidestep in Hungary for helping out despite a very gloomy outlook at the beginning of the war. Rome rewards her friends and those willing to stay out despite pressure from the coalition have been noted.

Tech group matters. Alot. Anatolian units are mad strong early game but lategame as we saw last season Western units absolutely steamrolls them in the last part of the game. France, Castille and Poland have superior NIs aswell - this is where Byzantium must gain momentum or fall by the wayside...

Invade Naples and get Italian troops in the late game?
 

KaiserJohan

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Invade Naples and get Italian troops in the late game?

Sadly I don't think that formation gives me Western tech. Drops the Byzantine Blurple which just isn't acceptable :)

Also while I understand the coalition against me, the ganks on Aragon and Morocco by the Entente is in my eyes simply unforgiveable. Not to mention the backstabbing on Sweden, unwitnessed by the stream.
 

TerrorSnail

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@DDRJake - if there's another coalition war next stream, can we get a quick scan of estate loyalty/influence for cossack and nobility buffs.
 

Heradite

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Bratyn was completely right to organise a coalition against Byzantium, and it's sad that he's now likely to be the main target of KaiserJohan's wrath simply because he's the only one with the tactical acumen and diplomatic skill to muster such a force. Really, it shouldn't have to be Kazan that takes on that role, especially since he could have easily made a deal and just expanded east as a stand-in Russia. He's honourable, smart and right to have done what he did.

Having said that, Byzantium's enemies should have helped the eastern bloc when they were being attacked, they should not have such an unbalanced coalition (I know they still didn't win exactly, but it shouldn't just be the whole world against one) and they shouldn't have been so (seemingly) cocky (these last two, I think, are related). All of which made me root for KaiserJohan in the War of the Grand Coalition. I think Bratyn would have been better served to have organised with Mamluks, QQ, the Pope and possibly some others in the region(!) over the break. Better IMO to have a smaller, better organised band of regional players who are actually invested in the fight and are willing to see it through, rather than a vast merry band of happy go lucky distant opportunists and adventurers.

But who knows, maybe he tried. I don't really trust the Coalition to come to his aid when the time comes, but if anyone has the skills to navigate the gathering storm, it's Bratyn.

The QQ alliance with the Papal States so far has not really been beneficial. Bratyn can't depend on the Pope for help. StarNam on the other hand? Austria has strength and an interest in shutting down Byzantine expansion.

Only problem? It would mean Hungary having to pick a side and I don't think Austria or Byzantine want to force Hungary's decision just yet.
 

MrSnert

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Also while I understand the coalition against me, the ganks on Aragon and Morocco by the Entente is in my eyes simply unforgiveable. Not to mention the backstabbing on Sweden, unwitnessed by the stream.

Completely agree. They are the true villains!
I hope there's a global relief effort for the poor beleaguered folk of Morocco going to be planned this week. Maybe you can ask Bratyn, he seems to be good at organising such things... :p
 

Tripodeu

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Just watched the vod. It felt a bit like KJ forced coalitions hand early, by taunting them into it.
Though, with all that cockiness, and taunting, I fear it might prevent him from making deals further down the line, due to generated animosity towards him.
 

KaiserJohan

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Is Byzantium Defender of the Faith? That would give them both an extra 5% morale along with the war exhaustion reduction and with the low amount of orthodox in europe they would not be called into other wars (except for muscovy).

Yes.

Completely agree. They are the true villains!
I hope there's a global relief effort for the poor beleaguered folk of Morocco going to be planned this week. Maybe you can ask Bratyn, he seems to be good at organising such things... :p

The bravery of the Sons of Morocco in the face of great adversity has been noted!

Just watched the vod. It felt a bit like KJ forced coalitions hand early, by taunting them into it.
Though, with all that cockiness, and taunting, I fear it might prevent him from making deals further down the line, due to generated animosity towards him.

They were waiting for Mamluks truce to run out so they could invite him aswell, further enlargening the coaltion. Otherwise they could've just struck as soon as they shipped the troops from Western Europe.
 

NimitzOfStars

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As the Western Alliance I would not be worried. Tech 15 you catch up unit wise, tech 19 you surpass and stay ahead for good. To get to them he has to eat through Hungary, Austria and the HRE or go overseas and they have the fleet to beat him.

So long term- Western Alliance, one of the Indian players unless Fido and some others that get vanquished move into countries to slow things down there or Prussia if it forms and has the dev to be relatively close in manpower and units to the other players are what I see doing the best.

Byzantium if it wants to win needs to use the advantage they have in better troops and 5% discpline as a starting tradition as most players are still only having an idea or two and their starting traditions with maybe 1 national idea. Before long though the rest of the players will have their military ideas in their national ideas come online and Byz doesn't have much left asides from cav combat. Byz needs to knock out western and eastern powers earlier rather then later.