I dont know, for the different start, and a more difficult game perhaps, if you want? We are talking about nomadic tribes who lives in tents here, reform should be a quite pressing concern.
EU4 - Art of War - Dev Diary 10 - Achievements, Auto Transport and South America
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my argument is far from pointless
while this game is loosely based on history and reality it's also very far from that
"you cant have social development without universities..."
ok
then how come countries in this game without universities can advance in technology so fast? maybe every country without universities should become hordes then?
maybe because this is an abstract game?
instead of just making life a pain for hordes why not change the mechanics behind them
Sure, if you want to bend over so far your head gets stuck where it doesn't belong, you can claim these guys were living in tents all the time.
However, if you actually bother to learn history, you'd realize how asinine and ridiculous your post is ^_^.
From what I can remember historically(limited knowledge of the mongol successors).
The horde states dissapeared BECAUSE they reformed. They adopted local ways of doing things and were absorbed. Whereas their mongol ancestors specifically stated that their decendants should stay in tents, ride horsback, and learn the ways of mongol and collect tribute through superior military dominance.
But no, they saw pretty women, great food, warm houses and decided to bathe in luxury and their children did the same until no one remembered how to dominated the way the mongols did.
This is what happened to the Huns. They settled in Hungary, raided for a few centuries. Then adopted the local customs, wore chainmail, become knights, etc....
As for falling behind technologiclaly. ....by the 1650's i think a peasant with a buckshot blunderbuss could take on a mongol warrior and win.
Horse archer cavalry eventually became obsolete. Which is what the horde nations were all about.
They didn't really form, so I think it's just optional releasable states, much like ukraine was. Doubt there will be any bookmarks of it.
And making it where the hordes don't need to reform to keep up late game would be TERRIBLE because 1. the ones that DO manage to westernize and reform become ungodly death machines with their inf/cal ratio and NI's.
2. It's stupid. I mean it's stupid. You realize this isn't set in Genghis Khan's time right? centuries late, innit? Try changing itup, go play CK2 and check out the mongol invasion bookmarks, play as them. Notice how they are actually not behind in warfare tech, how they have horse riding bows capable of devistation of the standardized lines of soldiers following roman example of 'left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot' lol.
Then fast forward 200 years later, where the soldiers saying "left foot right foot" have guns.
You know. Things that can murder another human wearing the best midieval european armor from meters away with little to no skill. Things that scare horses half to death when they are not used to it. It throws the horde advantages out the window almost completely.
You wanting to play Timurid The Great in the era where his people were declining and integrating into other lifestyles is fine. You demanding that become the standard.. Isn't fine. :|
MOD it if you MUST.
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What was a "horde government", in 1444, in history? Carefully describe to us how the GH, Crimea, Oirat, Timurid, Manchu were all so similar, and how they were materially different from European monarchies in each case.
You're making an assertion that does not have much credibility. Most "reform" by hordes happened fluidly and naturally. Some of them still got wiped out, just like counterparts in Europe. The Manchu hit the lottery, probably the luckiest nation in the game's period and they aren't lucky lol.
"Horde nations" used cannons. Before this game's starting bookmark. You don't think they'd be willing to shoot people once guns got to the point where they could do it reliably with mobility? The most successful hordes in history consistently adapted tactics *and* technology of their enemies. RL hordes got squeezed by Qing, Russia, and Mughals/Ottomans. Blaming that on a "nomadic government" is roughly as intelligent as blaming the disappearance of Naples as an independent state on a nomadic government.
They mentioned in the stream that there were several examples royal marriages between different religion groups---in Asia at least.
Well I don't know much about hordes so I might be wrong, but weren't the hordes still less settled than e.g. the HRE?
Because some people find it fun to start as uncivlized and make it civilized?
Either way, it makes no sense that a Horde can stay equally good as the late monarchies with a high degree of administration. The fact that Hordes could not keep with the time is the very reason for their eventual demises.
Wow, I simply love more provinces and more detail, the EU4 world got larger and I wanna play Portugal now 
The predictable result however is making conquest slower and IMHO it won´t regulate CB at all, it only gives control over the web of alliances. It brings more fantasy into the game not only because of double war score requirement for non-belligerent enemies (whatever that means in this game) but also by letting the attacking party have a definite saying in the countries involved on the defensive side which is silly because that decision is not up to them. Sorry for being so negative but IMO this is broken no matter how I look at it. This game would probably be better off with no war leader changes especially in a patch that occupying the war leader by 100% is not enough to have 100% war score, at least not until 5 years have passed.
That depends, heavily, on which "horde nation" you want to discuss and which HRE nation.
Edit: I see now, all this reaction is due to the nonsense of removing building foreign core units without giving hordes any new units.
Yes, anger over that is merited. The horde reform requirements lack historical basis and are extremely luck based. Removing foreign cores screws more than just hordes, it screws some of the game's strategy.
Enforce peace is still a thing. Otherwise, if you want to protect a nation, guarantee it, ally it, or use warnings.
I just have to ask, if there is no more anachronism then why is Kaffa still Kaffa instead of Theodosia? That said, I look forward to a second Komnenian Restoration from the most unexpected place.
And this is perfectly SIMULATED in the fact that they REFORM to and WESTERNIZE to get WESTERN TECH RELATED STUFF?
Wow! WOW!
Neat.
Glad that's over.
I have a question for you then: if I'm a level 16 tech Unreformed Horde, am I inferior in EU4 to a level 16 Western or Eastern country?
(I can just hear the answer) Uh.. uh... Uh... I dunno...
(But most likely I'll just hear crickets)
Well UH.
We get "Imperialism" CB at dip22 tech... And it's a CB on everyone, permanantly, to conquer them.
>_> Not sure how ANYTHING could hamper that.
though it does sort of make some of the idea group cb seem pointless. Like expansions east asia cb set? Whats the point now if you reach dip22 you can paint their land in swathes anyways.
Now all monarchs with all stats below 2 will die exactly at the age of 79
Wow you can be a smart-ass. Oh but I can too.
Yes. Yes because? Units. Westernization could do with a rework. However, horde system should stay the same on its own. If westernization gets done, it needs to be done for everyone.
You could win, it's worth noting. But if you were put into an even battle on a non-heavily penaltied terrain for either side, you most likely won't. Especially against a lucky nation's general.
But you are saying "but i should be able to win coz coz" and no. NO.
they are different for a reason, and if all the regions were the same, there would literally be no ROTW. Now, if you WANT every one to feel like european, download a mod that makes everyone western tech western units. (THEY EXIST)
don't demand the base game change for your precious hordes.
On a related note. I have in the past conquered Lombard Italy as Crimea through Genoa and done ok with it up until REV times.
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