EU4 and all paradox games have not yet make Chinese religion correct.

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

The_Real_China_WU-Empire

Sergeant
38 Badges
Aug 19, 2017
79
233
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
I am Chinese, and I can tell you it clearly.

There are four beliefs of the Chinese people, Mahayana Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism. These three are "orthodox religions" similar to the concept of Western Christianity.

The other is "Chinese folk religions", which is similar to the concept of witches, tarot cards and constellations in the West. Unlike the West, theese four religions in China are not mutually exclusive. For example, a devout Christian does not to play tarot cards. But Chinese Buddhists can play Chinese folk religions‘ divination without any restrict.

Chinese religion also different from Japan, in Japan Shinto and Buddism are perfectly integrated and inseparable. But in China, there‘s no clearly combination between Confucianism and Buddhism. You can easily distinguish Japanese Buddhist and Shinto architectures easily, because the Shinto ones have Red Torii gates. But the architectures of Chinese Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism are divided according to China's regional characteristics, not according to religion.

Confucianism has been China's ostensibly official religion since the Han Dynasty(202 BC – 9 AD, 25–220 AD). In fact Confucianism is more of a ‘’class label‘’ than a ‘’religious label‘’. You must understand Confucianism first, then you would be an official or bureaucracy in China. But if you don't believe Confucianism, it won't affect your life. Even though China's official religion is Confucianism, very few people believe in pure Confucianism. The Chinese government had never enforced their people to believe Confucianism, or forced other religions to combine with Confucianism.

Among the religion believers in China, most people believe in the combination of Buddhism and Taoism, dominated by Buddhism. A lot of people believe in pure Buddism, and only a few people believe in pure Taoism. Taoism and Buddhism can also be combined with Chinese folk religions, but Chinese people treat them like habits, not religious teachings.

I wrote the correct distribution of Chinese religion, hope paradox game can improve:

*In most Han areas of China, Mahayana Buddhism is the mainstay.
*In Fujian and Guangdong provinces, the combination of Taoism and Buddhism is the mainstay.
*In Guizhou Province and Guangxi Province, the combination of Mahayana Buddhism and Chinese folk beliefs is the mainstay.
*In Tibet, Vajrayana Buddhism is the mainstay.
*In the Yunnan area, the combination of Theravada Buddhism and Chinese folk beliefs is the mainstay.
*In Northwest China and Xinjiang, the combination of Shiite Islam and Chinese folk religions is the mainstay.

The way of thinking about religion in China is different from that of the West and Japan. As a Chinese, I hate that Paradox views Chinese religions with Western perspective, and even more hate that Paradox use Japanese religious concept to thinking about Chinese religions. Even if China and Japan are the Eastern Asian countries, they are still different.

I strongly suggest that paradox creat a new Taoism religion in EU4 games, and give the Taiji symbol of the current Confucianism to Taoism. Because Taiji symbol belong to Taoism. The symbol of Confucianism should be a Chinese character "儒". Also, give the Confucian mechanism to the "Celestial Empire" and "Chinese Warlord Government". It‘s the Chinese people who like to integrate various religions, not the Confucianism.
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 4
  • 2Haha
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

prismaticmarcus

Field Marshal
Moderator
70 Badges
Sep 28, 2014
7.305
11.433
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Empire of Sin
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
it's probably too late to think about for EUIV. do you think there are other games that could use this suggestion? makes posts there
 

luanmameili[LM]

Major
82 Badges
Nov 15, 2016
544
758
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
I am Chinese, and I can tell you it clearly.

There are four beliefs of the Chinese people, Mahayana Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism. These three are "orthodox religions" similar to the concept of Western Christianity.
The other is "Chinese folk religions", which is similar to the concept of witches, tarot cards and constellations in the West.

But unlike the West, theese four religions in China are not mutually exclusive. Also different from Japan, in Japan Shinto and Buddism are perfectly integrated and inseparable.

Confucianism has been China's ostensibly official religion since the Han Dynasty(202 BC – 9 AD, 25–220 AD). In fact Confucianism is more of a ‘’class label‘’ than a ‘’religious label‘’. You must understand Confucianism first, then you would be an official or bureaucracy in China. But if you don't believe Confucianism, it won't affect your life. The Chinese government had never enforced their people to believe Confucianism, or forced other religions to combine with Confucianism.

In most parts of China, the Chinese usually believe in Mahayana Buddhism. Ulike the Confucian mechanism of EU4 games or Japanese Shinto-Buddhism, there‘s no clearly combination between Confucianism and Buddhism.

Among the religion believers in China, most people believe in the combination of Buddhism and Taoism, dominated by Buddhism. A lot fo people believe in pure Buddism, and only a few people believe in pure Taoism. Taoism and Buddhism can also be combined with Chinese folk religions, but Chinese people treat them like habits, not religious teachings.

I wrote the correct distribution of Chinese religion, hope paradox game can improve:

*In most Han areas of China, Mahayana Buddhism is the mainstay.
*In Fujian and Guangdong provinces, the combination of Taoism and Buddhism is the mainstay.
*In Guizhou Province and Guangxi Province, the combination of Mahayana Buddhism and Chinese folk beliefs is the mainstay.
*In Tibet, Vajrayana Buddhism is the mainstay.
*In the Yunnan area, the combination of Theravada Buddhism and Chinese folk beliefs is the mainstay.
*In Northwest China and Xinjiang, the combination of Shiite Islam and Chinese folk beliefs is the mainstay.

The way of thinking about religion in China is different from that of the West and Japan. As a Chinese, I hate that Paradox views Chinese religions with Western perspective, and even more hate that Paradox use Japanese religious to thinki about Chinese religions. Even if China and Japan are the same Eastern Asian countries, they are still different.

I strongly suggest that paradox creat a new Taoism religion in EU4 games, and give the Taiji symbol of the current Confucianism to Taoism. Because Taiji symbol belong to Taoism. The symbol of Confucianism should be a Chinese character "儒". Also, give the Confucian mechanism to the "Celestial Empire" and "Chinese Warlord Government". It‘s the Chinese people who like to integrate various religions, not the Confucianism.

In CK3 and EU4, each province can only have one culture and one religion. You can have multiple cultures and religions in one single province in VIC2 and ImperatorRome, and probably also in VIC3.

(Also, in CK3, though only one culture and faith in each province, courtiers and guests can have different cultures and faiths.)
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Romanix90

Colonel
19 Badges
Feb 25, 2019
872
2.233
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
Regarding EU4 Confucianism gained some buffs. Also i think that Buddhist denominations and Tengri will get some buffs as well. I think thet there'll be no new religions in China but mainly buffing the existing ones. The best you can hope for is that in EU5 China will get more, like Taoism ect.
 
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:

Elu Thingol

Sergeant
48 Badges
Feb 1, 2009
69
146
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
Yeah, as a western, christian guy i can understand that the implementation of non-abrahamitic/western religions dont realy work properly. But as others have said, it's to late to change it in EU4, but hopefully it could be better system in EU5, regarding all religions.
 
  • 3
  • 1Love
Reactions:

currylambchop

Star eater gang (she/her)
42 Badges
Nov 25, 2016
2.978
3.566
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
Unironically would be better if Confucianism were removed and replaced with Chinese folk religion and Taoism. Confucianism as a religion is basically like having revolutonary France having ‘revolution‘ religiob
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
22.420
38.639
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
I love when posts start "I am X so I can tell you" as if that is authoritative.
When the subject matter is "how a Europhone-created video game is misrepresenting religions that aren't Catholic, post-Catholic, or maybe Orthodox Christianity", i'm generally favourably disposed to "I am X and your representation of religion among X people is wrong".
 
  • 5
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Fusilliban

Second Lieutenant
60 Badges
Feb 17, 2015
131
181
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
I'm not an expert here, but this dude is right on that the symbol choice is a little off.

I agree that Confucianism isn't quite a religion in the sense that we tend to think of religions today, but in the EU4 period "State Religion" means "thing you have to openly conform to in order to be accepted by the upper echelons of society," which seems to line up decently with it being necessary to get government jobs.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Antonius66

Captain
91 Badges
Dec 29, 2007
464
628
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • 500k Club
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Elven Legacy Collection
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
When the subject matter is "how a Europhone-created video game is misrepresenting religions that aren't Catholic, post-Catholic, or maybe Orthodox Christianity", i'm generally favourably disposed to "I am X and your representation of religion among X people is wrong".
I find so many things wrong with that statement that originally I was going to write a long post explaining why, but I realized, this is the internet so who cares, what is the point and why bother. I will just leave it at I respectfully disagree.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

Zaddy

Major
20 Badges
Sep 16, 2017
674
2.886
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
When the subject matter is "how a Europhone-created video game is misrepresenting religions that aren't Catholic, post-Catholic, or maybe Orthodox Christianity", i'm generally favourably disposed to "I am X and your representation of religion among X people is wrong".
For me, I can generally broaden this to offering wide sympathy for "I am X and your depiction of X is wrong", all other things being equal. The people proffering this point will often want an inordinate amount of attention paid to their issue, but GENERALLY I would trust a Chinese person to offer a more accurate model of their society than a Swedish person, and vice versa.
 
  • 3
  • 1Love
Reactions:

namewhichisnottakenyet

Captain
56 Badges
May 11, 2016
481
1.555
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
Yeah, I guess EU4's design started with Christianity and maybe Islam and kinda tacked the eastern, dharmic and pagan religions on top in such a way that the devs could give them unique features, but otherwise made them conform to the fundamental western religion mechanics.

I guess religions would have to be decoupled from provinces and state religions somehow to some extent, but I have no idea how to properly write the system... not even a pop based mechanic would work, I think, because I've read quoted which suggest that individual people could be openly Buddhist, Confucian and Taoist at the same time.

Even if a system were to be found, this wouldn't map well back to Europe, because no self-respecting Catholic could also be Protestant and Shia or whatever at the same time. You could barely have communities of these religions on the same continent in the early modern period without the different communities trying to murderize each other all the time.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

holyvigil

General
48 Badges
Oct 15, 2016
2.026
1.876
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
When the subject matter is "how a Europhone-created video game is misrepresenting religions that aren't Catholic, post-Catholic, or maybe Orthodox Christianity", i'm generally favourably disposed to "I am X and your representation of religion among X people is wrong".

I'm good with that.

Its historical stuff that I have a problem with.

Stuff like: "I am Chinese. Therefore I know what religion was the majority in every single province in my huge country in 1444. I do not have any chinese sources I am relying on. I do not have any articles, websites, books or anything to back it up. But that's ok because I am a Chinese person in 2022 so I know the representation of Ming's entire population in 1444 better than everyone that worked on this game."

It also completely ignores that Confucianism was put in the game because they needed one religion that represented the mixed and combined nature of Chinese faith. Not because they thought it was just the Chinese originated faith.
 
Last edited:
  • 6
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

nobodyinparticular

Captain
19 Badges
Feb 14, 2021
304
715
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
The in-game descriptions of Mahayana and Confucian explicitly state that 1. Mahayana is dominant in China, but these provinces are represented as Confucian in-game for gameplay purposes and 2. that Confucianism is not a religion (duh) but a state philosophy and thus makes sense to represent as the state religion. IIRC Ming starts out with Mahayana harmonized.
 
  • 2Love
Reactions:

gigau

Imperare Orbis Universi
Moderator
218 Badges
May 4, 2005
43.560
8.243
47
www.twitch.tv
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Paradox Order
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • PDXCon 2019 "King"
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
VUmzq32.gif
to the Suggestions subforum.
 

moscal

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 6, 2012
3.940
3.006
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Far east religious system isn't similar to other. Is "more fluid". In rest of world - you cannot be catholic and sunni muslim in this same time, you cannot be nordic pagan and zoroastrian in this same time. In far east persons can be shintoist and confucianist and buddist in this same time. Etc.

Mechanismus of EU4 isnt good to representation of religious mosaic of the Far East. Even for minorities this isn't good mechanism. So for any form of better representation we have to wainting to EU5 or even EU6.
 
  • 1
  • 1Love
Reactions:

The_Real_China_WU-Empire

Sergeant
38 Badges
Aug 19, 2017
79
233
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
Why would "chinese folks religion" matter if it's similar to "witches, tarot cards and constellations" when they don't matter in EUIV ?
I don't know the true answer to the question.
I could express my opinion:

Maybe Europeans have a strong the concept of ''orthodox religion'' and ''heretical religion'' Catholics consider witches, tarot cards, and horoscopes to be incompatible with Christianity, they believe that only the teachings prescribed by the Holy See are the only true ones.

But Chinese Buddhists will not think that ’‘Taoist divination, palmistry, and qigong are not in line with Buddhist teachings’‘, even if there is no such content like that in Buddhism. The Chinese believe that all gods, divinations, spirituality, ghosts, monsters, demons, angels and witches are 『The Same』. These supernatural things all have good or bad ''consciousness'', no matter how their ''name'', ''title'' or ''status'' are. If a witch is helping others and spreading kindness, the Chinese people will see her as a goddess. If a god brings war or discrimination, then we don't believe in it anymore.

There’s no concept such as "the only one God" or "the Creator" in the mind of the Chinese people. Chinese only care about what could gods do for us, not what we do for gods. There is no religious war in Chinese history either. If a new religion could give Chinese people benefit, we will accept it without hesitation.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

thetrue7man

Captain
65 Badges
Aug 19, 2017
329
164
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I'm not an expert here, but this dude is right on that the symbol choice is a little off.

I agree that Confucianism isn't quite a religion in the sense that we tend to think of religions today, but in the EU4 period "State Religion" means "thing you have to openly conform to in order to be accepted by the upper echelons of society," which seems to line up decently with it being necessary to get government jobs.
Basically this. The question we have to start with is "what is religion in EU4 supposed to do?". There are a few mechanic access things here and there otherwise, but for the most part, religion in the game is an engine for representing causes of conflict and its absence. Confucianism is the game's name for the non-conflict-generating span of the beliefs in and around China. Maybe that's a bad name. But what specific mechanical results are splitting up Confucianism supposed to produce that the current situation does not? That's not a rhetorical question; I'd like to hear whatever ideas people have.
Unironically would be better if Confucianism were removed and replaced with Chinese folk religion and Taoism. Confucianism as a religion is basically like having revolutonary France having ‘revolution‘ religiob

I'd unironically support having the revolution be the state religion of revolutionary countries and giving them tolerance in provinces with it and intolerance in provinces without it. Maybe also making all non-revolutionary religion countries always get intolerance in them. Would be cool to be able to spread it with "missionaries" too, though "missionaries" would need a rename for them.
 
  • 3
Reactions: