EU4 - 1.8 - Major Power Idea Changes

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Novacat

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Muscovy actually has extremely good NIs. The only one that isn't *all* that useful is the production efficiency, but that can be alright in the late game.

Eh, they used to, but it got nerfed a few times. Given it is still pretty damn good but not among the best anymore. An enviornment factor also that the metagame shifted enormously to favor quality over quantity.

Again, no. You can`t expand fast in HRE. I tend to build first set of buildings as soon as I hit level 5 tech as Brandenburg.

Why would I expand in the HRE? My rule of thumb is to avoid the HRE like the plague, which means I will likely be attempting to go after Teutonic Order, Livonian Order, and either Poland or Sweden. My end goal is to eat Russia, than eat Asia. Why settle myself for a puny Germany when I can conquer Asia?

As I said, this NI set is pretty Brandenburg-specific, at least the way I play it, it would really help. Quick buildings allow fast improvement of economy and manpower within your small confinement, extra force limits allow you to take on Poland, Hanza or Denmark early, as force limits is you main problem.

People play countries in different ways. What may work for you may not work for other people. I like some of your ideas, expecially back-loading the military ideas so that it takes a bit longer for the Brandenburg troops to get super strong, but removing the army tradition decay and nerfing the discipline, infantry power, and morale will just no longer make Brandenburg what it is.

At least before 1550, I tend to have all manpower buildings in all my provinces as any German state, Brandenburg, Austria and Hanza particularly.

Same here, but those are usually dirt cheap and you usually have few provinces. Its not until you try upgrading structures for a 100+ province empire where the building power/cost start coming in handy.

Considering EU series westernisation is modeled after Russian westernisation, the game should heavily encourage them to.

Except, theres no reason for Russia to westernize. Because they are eastern tech they can vassalize India and China wheras Western states cannot, and the 20% tech cost difference is not worth the MPs spent on westernization. The only reason you would care to westernize at all is for trade companies. Thats about it.
 

1alexey

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Why would I expand in the HRE? My rule of thumb is to avoid the HRE like the plague, which means I will likely be attempting to go after Teutonic Order, Livonian Order, and either Poland or Sweden. My end goal is to eat Russia, than eat Asia. Why settle myself for a puny Germany when I can conquer Asia?
To get your home trade node monopolized.
Also, from MP perspective, expanding into Russia and Asia may be a bridge too far.
People play countries in different ways. What may work for you may not work for other people. I like some of your ideas, expecially back-loading the military ideas so that it takes a bit longer for the Brandenburg troops to get super strong, but removing the army tradition decay and nerfing the discipline, infantry power, and morale will just no longer make Brandenburg what it is.
The military is still strong, it is just not broken, so it can be played in both SP and MP. It also emphasis the infrastructure, and tries to get you to pick innovative and quantity to stack with your bonuses, to get the historical Prussia, that could support huge (for it`s size) army, however the army most of the time wasn`t a tier above everyone else in quality.

Obviously there are many ways one can compose country ideas, but IMO my set is a set that get`s Brandenburg both MP-tier idea set, allows for relatively fast expansion of power base, while making your military strong but not broken, to make everyone not want to gang you right away.
Same here, but those are usually dirt cheap and you usually have few provinces. Its not until you try upgrading structures for a 100+ province empire where the building power/cost start coming in handy.
Sure, but the point is to help you get to 100 provinces as Brandenburg, not make going from 100 to 1000 easier.
The pace of upgrades, is also important.
Except, theres no reason for Russia to westernize. Because they are eastern tech they can vassalize India and China wheras Western states cannot, and the 20% tech cost difference is not worth the MPs spent on westernization. The only reason you would care to westernize at all is for trade companies. Thats about it.
Which is why the thing needs to be revisited.
 

Novacat

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To get your home trade node monopolized.
Also, from MP perspective, expanding into Russia and Asia may be a bridge too far.

I dont play MP, so I could not care less. In SP, I usually relocate my home node to Novgorod anyway.

The military is still strong, it is just not broken, so it can be played in both SP and MP. It also emphasis the infrastructure, and tries to get you to pick innovative and quantity to stack with your bonuses, to get the historical Prussia, that could support huge (for it`s size) army, however the army most of the time wasn`t a tier above everyone else in quality.

Strong? No, not really. Ottomans have 15% Discipline, 20% Infantry power, and 15% Cavalry power. Without 100 AT and the discipline/infantry power, they will no longer have the best military ideas. Infact they would not even be #2, they would be behind Ottomans, Sweden, Japan, Poland, and probably others as well.

Obviously there are many ways one can compose country ideas, but IMO my set is a set that get`s Brandenburg both MP-tier idea set, allows for relatively fast expansion of power base, while making your military strong but not broken, to make everyone not want to gang you right away.

Brandenburg does fine in Multiplayer. There are about equal number of people who say that its overpowered and dominating everything, and people who think it gets squished flat very quickly. That seems to indicate that yes, it is balanced.

Which is why the thing needs to be revisited.

This mainly happened when Paradox removed the ability for western tech groups to vassalize anything below Muslim tech level.
 

1alexey

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Strong? No, not really. Ottomans have 15% Discipline, 20% Infantry power, and 15% Cavalry power. Without 100 AT and the discipline/infantry power, they will no longer have the best military ideas. Infact they would not even be #2, they would be behind Ottomans, Sweden, Japan, Poland, and probably others as well.
But Janisaries and other event modifiers are temporary, and not part of NIs. I don`t particularly mind Prussian army being outclassed in some periods.

Yes, their troops would become more or less same tier as other best military countries, maybe they should keep 20% infantry power. That, is the point, I want them to have good but not godlike troops, and compensate in other places to keep the idea set power, more or less similar, but scale differently with size, be stronger when the country is small, and be weaker when it is large.
Brandenburg does fine in Multiplayer. There are about equal number of people who say that its overpowered and dominating everything, and people who think it gets squished flat very quickly. That seems to indicate that yes, it is balanced.
Brandenburg seem to almost always die in MP.

To dangerous to allow to expand, and too weak to not get spanked. It is "balanced", but IMO, in a wrong way.
 

thErgonomic

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These changes reek of making France weaker, but there is one problem which actually has been brought up already.
Which is the Netherlands. England, Spain/Castille, and Austria (and Portugal) are all possible (and in most play throughs that I've had natural) enemies for Netherlands.
Which just makes me abit unhappy with no changes to Netherlands. Just my two cents.
 

Novacat

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But Janisaries and other event modifiers are temporary, and not part of NIs. I don`t particularly mind Prussian army being outclassed in some periods.

Janissaries are not necessarily temporary. They can be permanent through either luck or tag-switching. Sweden would just be plain better with NIs alone but their permanent modifiers would widen the gap somewhat.


Brandenburg seem to almost always die in MP.

Which is odd because these 'Nerf Brandenburg' threads seem to crop up every week and is almost always because a Brandenburg manages to survive and thrive in multiplayer.
 

Beagá

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Aaaaaaaand... it´s fine with me :)

My only real issues are Elán and the stupid tech bônus Russia gets.
 

steven0935

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Considering Austria and Spain are now getting morale buffs increased, shouldn't the English and portuguese get a small buff in their military traditions as well, especially as spain will now be even harder for England and Portugal to fight off in the colonies.
 

TheDecider

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Considering Austria and Spain are now getting morale buffs increased, shouldn't the English and portuguese get a small buff in their military traditions as well, especially as spain will now be even harder for England and Portugal to fight off in the colonies.
...and so the power creep is in effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_creep (power inflation) presenting the need to buff everyone, instead of just nerfing France(if the goal of Castile+Austria buff was to contain France)
 
Last edited:

Sorenzo

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They should just replace the extra colonist + settlers speed with a colonist buff from 1500 to 1550 to represent the headstart in colonization Spain and Portugal had.
It's pretty dumb in in 1600+ Spain keep colonizing everything faster.

I tend to agree with this. Alternatively, it'd be nice if the great powers had more colonial wars and seized colonies more. I basically took all of the Siberian coast from Spain because they were colonizing 4 provinces at a time and I'd barely reached that far. :)

My thinking is that instead of slowing down Castille's colonization, having other powers just steal them occasionally might have a similar effect.
 

Novacat

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...and so the power creep is in effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_creep (power inflation) presenting the need to buff everyone, instead of just nerfing France(if the goal of Castile+Austria buff was to contain France)

To be fair, even with the 'buffs', Spain and England are still far, far behind Muscovy, Ottomans, and Prussia whom are the real land power juggernauts. I would worry about power creep if they start introducing NI sets that are better than Prussia's.