EU4: 1.31.3 Majapahit is now LIVE! - Checksum [984a] - Not for Problem Reports

[brifbates]

'Tis not a problem report rather a question: as I continued my ironman run started I guess in 1.30.1 (Switzerland), besides still continuing to be Ironman, I saw some cores vanishing from provinces (like Verona or Toulouse) as I went with the intent of claiming those provinces and release those vassals, and this happened around 1600..

Is this WAD or it might have been an issue due to the incremental patches?

Cores can expire if the nation doesn't own the land and hasn't recently fought a war with the nation that owns it. It takes from 50 to 150 years depending on how closely the culture of the province matches that of the tag whose core is in question. The exception is that the primary nation of a culture will never lose a core on a province of that culture. Thus, cores of every nation that doesn't exist at game start will be lost no later than 1594 if the nation never exists and is not the primary nation of the culture of the province(s) where it has cores. Nations that exist at game start but disappear quickly would also lose such cores around 1600 as you are seeing.

 

[LuPoNe]

Cores can expire if the nation doesn't own the land and hasn't recently fought a war with the nation that owns it. It takes from 50 to 150 years depending on how closely the culture of the province matches that of the tag whose core is in question. The exception is that the primary nation of a culture will never lose a core on a province of that culture. Thus, cores of every nation that doesn't exist at game start will be lost no later than 1594 if the nation never exists and is not the primary nation of the culture of the province(s) where it has cores. Nations that exist at game start but disappear quickly would also lose such cores around 1600 as you are seeing.

Thank you so much, so it's working as intended!

 

[brifbates]

Thank you so much, so it's working as intended!

Without knowing the absolute specifics of which core you are talking about and the culture of the province(s) in question I can't 100% guarantee it but the scenario you outlined is absolutely within the normal expected behavior. If you are seeing France lose cores on Francien culture provinces without losing a war being involved there's a problem but them losing cores on Basque provinces is expected behavior (for example).

 

[Ninking]

'Tis not a problem report rather a question: as I continued my ironman run started I guess in 1.30.1 (Switzerland), besides still continuing to be Ironman, I saw some cores vanishing from provinces (like Verona or Toulouse) as I went with the intent of claiming those provinces and release those vassals, and this happened around 1600..

Is this WAD or it might have been an issue due to the incremental patches?

As a general rule, you should either start a new game or stick to the old version when the game updates to a new version after the first comma (i.e. if it goes from A.B.C to A.B.D it's usually fine to keep your save, but A.B to A.C will probably break your save).

 

[LuPoNe]

As a general rule, you should either start a new game or stick to the old version when the game updates to a new version after the first comma (i.e. if it goes from A.B.C to A.B.D it's usually fine to keep your save, but A.B to A.C will probably break your save).

Thank you for the suggestion. Luckily as for now I'm not noticing any weridness and it's still being Ironman.. I'm too far deep, AE wise, in this campaign that I just want to end it

 

[LuPoNe]

Without knowing the absolute specifics of which core you are talking about and the culture of the province(s) in question I can't 100% guarantee it but the scenario you outlined is absolutely within the normal expected behavior. If you are seeing France lose cores on Francien culture provinces without losing a war being involved there's a problem but them losing cores on Basque provinces is expected behavior (for example).

Verona's core in Verona province, with correct culture, owned by Venice, wasn't there anymore.
Same goes with Toulouse in Vivarais, Occitan culture, that was owned by France

 

[Scanz]

Hello everyone! I'm one of the new content designers of the team, and I'm in charge of monuments fixing and balancing. We'll take a look about this, and probably change it for the next patch.

i think Jerusalim must be a "wonder" like a holy city for both religions

 

[brifbates]

Verona's core in Verona province, with correct culture, owned by Venice, wasn't there anymore.
Same goes with Toulouse in Vivarais, Occitan culture, that was owned by France

Toulouse isn't the primary nation of Occitan culture (Provence) so that is expected. The same applies to Verona as Venice is the primary nation of Venetian. Since the cores are for nations of the same culture they disappear 150 years after last "contested" or, for nations that are never on the map, the game's start so 11/11/1594.

 

[ruzen]

Brilliant work! Thankyou for working on this and to quote a famous phrase from British politics "Don't let the ba$tards get you down"

Ie, considering how long this game has been going for and how it has maintained the attention of users for so long, you've got to have done something very right! New concepts are being introduced to keep the game fresh and they all have to be integrated with everything else that has happened over the years.

SHEEEEESH

Have some self-respect man, you calling customers bastards?
Yikes, are you some employee?

 

[Lord Hoosier]

Nice work, now can you either tone down the sheer number of SE Asians wonders or make other regions have more?

 

[IndigoRage]

Cores can expire if the nation doesn't own the land and hasn't recently fought a war with the nation that owns it. It takes from 50 to 150 years depending on how closely the culture of the province matches that of the tag whose core is in question. The exception is that the primary nation of a culture will never lose a core on a province of that culture. Thus, cores of every nation that doesn't exist at game start will be lost no later than 1594 if the nation never exists and is not the primary nation of the culture of the province(s) where it has cores. Nations that exist at game start but disappear quickly would also lose such cores around 1600 as you are seeing.

I always thought this was pretty stupid given it's just an unnecessary carry-over from EU3 and it prevents a lot of historical instances of countries getting independence from happening outside of extreme circumstances, but what do I know.

 

[brifbates]

it prevents a lot of historical instances of countries getting independence from happening outside of extreme circumstances, but what do I know.

Such as...? Because I can't really think of any such cases, particularly within the game's time frame, since the Balkan nations that eventually broke away/were carved out of the Ottomans would fall under the primary culture rule. The same applies to Poland and even the bulk of the states that were set free in the break-up of the USSR.

 

[Biduber]

1551 year, the state of Florence. After 1551? No, what happened? game over. how did it end? I do not know. closed there. save? Excuse me. Not available. (Turkish player reported.)

 

[IndigoRage]

Such as...? Because I can't really think of any such cases, particularly within the game's time frame, since the Balkan nations that eventually broke away/were carved out of the Ottomans would fall under the primary culture rule. The same applies to Poland and even the bulk of the states that were set free in the break-up of the USSR.

Luxembourg is Walloon culture but the primary tag of Walloon culture is Hainaut. It doesn't exist at game start and is unlikely to exist within 50 years unless Austria takes the option to shatter Burgundy. Kotte is the primary tag of Sinhalese culture, but Kandy is the one that still existed when the Brits came knocking. Even in Leviathan we now have the Johor Sultunate, which would be gone by the time it got its independence IRL as its not the primary tag of its culture and it didn't get independence until over 50 years after that start date despite existing as far as to the 1800s as an independent state and as far as the modern day as a federal part of Malaysia. The way culture works means that if Georgia had an accurate start setup, it would be impossible to see Georgian states that existed until the 1800s in pretty short order. To add to that, why aren't revolter tags normally releasable? Some real countries are locked behind this when their independence has nothing to do with revolt.

It's a bad system that's only there because it was in EU3.

 

[Battlex]

Luxembourg is Walloon culture but the primary tag of Walloon culture is Hainaut. It doesn't exist at game start and is unlikely to exist within 50 years unless Austria takes the option to shatter Burgundy. Kotte is the primary tag of Sinhalese culture, but Kandy is the one that still existed when the Brits came knocking. Even in Leviathan we now have the Johor Sultunate, which would be gone by the time it got its independence IRL as its not the primary tag of its culture and it didn't get independence until over 50 years after that start date despite existing as far as to the 1800s as an independent state and as far as the modern day as a federal part of Malaysia. The way culture works means that if Georgia had an accurate start setup, it would be impossible to see Georgian states that existed until the 1800s in pretty short order. To add to that, why aren't revolter tags normally releasable? Some real countries are locked behind this when their independence has nothing to do with revolt.

It's a bad system that's only there because it was in EU3.

Separatist rebels can give cores back. The loss of cores means people feel fully integrated and so can't be seperated by a foreign power, no German protectorate of occitan eg

 

[IndigoRage]

Separatist rebels can give cores back. The loss of cores means people feel fully integrated and so can't be seperated by a foreign power, no German protectorate of occitan eg

You misunderstand. I'm not confused as to what happens. I know exactly why. I'm saying there's literally no reason it has to be this way and that it shouldn't be this way.

Your first point is something I acknowledged in the comment you're replying to. Separatist rebels, especially post-core loss are way too rare for this to be a compelling argument. It should be up to the player whether to release "revolter tags", not to the game to arbitrarily take the option away. Also you're ignoring that many of these tags are not the primary tag of their culture, meaning the cores will only ever come back if the stars align and the primary tag of the culture swaps its primary culture and forces a separatist revolt. Something that is so absurdly rare as to be negligible without player interference.

Your second point is something I don't care about. I don't care about "feeling integrated". If a country that has won wants to release a part of my country as an independent country they should be able to. If I want to tear off part of another country I should be able to. In fact, I already can using client states. I understand for large blobs that have been split up and conquered it would be too strong for them to have a claim to a certain piece of land forever, but I don't see a single reason on earth why Germany shouldn't be able to make a march out of Toulouse after 50 years into the game have passed.

The only compelling argument in my mind is that large defeated powers would have a permanent footprint on the map if they were allowed to keep their cores. And even then there could be a work around, them losing cores on land that doesn't correspond to the primary culture of the tag, rather than the other way around. Anything else is just arbitrarily taking away player choice and leaving a bunch of tags in the game that are completely worthless because they'll be gone by 1500.

 

[Battlex]

You misunderstand. I'm not confused as to what happens. I know exactly why. I'm saying there's literally no reason it has to be this way and that it shouldn't be this way.

Your first point is something I acknowledged in the comment you're replying to. Separatist rebels, especially post-core loss are way too rare for this to be a compelling argument. It should be up to the player whether to release "revolter tags", not to the game to arbitrarily take the option away. Also you're ignoring that many of these tags are not the primary tag of their culture, meaning the cores will only ever come back if the stars align and the primary tag of the culture swaps its primary culture and forces a separatist revolt. Something that is so absurdly rare as to be negligible without player interference.

Your second point is something I don't care about. I don't care about "feeling integrated". If a country that has won wants to release a part of my country as an independent country they should be able to. If I want to tear off part of another country I should be able to. In fact, I already can using client states. I understand for large blobs that have been split up and conquered it would be too strong for them to have a claim to a certain piece of land forever, but I don't see a single reason on earth why Germany shouldn't be able to make a march out of Toulouse after 50 years into the game have passed.

The only compelling argument in my mind is that large defeated powers would have a permanent footprint on the map if they were allowed to keep their cores. And even then there could be a work around, them losing cores on land that doesn't correspond to the primary culture of the tag, rather than the other way around. Anything else is just arbitrarily taking away player choice and leaving a bunch of tags in the game that are completely worthless because they'll be gone by 1500.

The rebel type won't just change if you change primary culture but also if the religion differs to state religion.
If you make it so you never lose cores on provinces of your primary culture then Germany and its princelings can forever be balkanised

 

[IndigoRage]

The rebel type won't just change if you change primary culture but also if the religion differs to state religion.
If you make it so you never lose cores on provinces of your primary culture then Germany and its princelings can forever be balkanised

So? I don't understand what the problem with that is supposed to be.

 

[Battlex]

So? I don't understand what the problem with that is supposed to be.

Because if they lost their imperial immediacy there wouldn't be an active campaign for it 300 years later?

 

[Pavía]

i think Jerusalim must be a "wonder" like a holy city for both religions

This was already proposed at Monuments Megathread. For the moment we're working on balancing the existing monuments, but perhaps in the future we could take into account some suggestions to add more.