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User4035

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"some things which happen only if the player causes them and even then only 1 in a 100 games are not logical, therefore this game should not strive to be historical at all"

The game is a history simulator.
Games do need some balance to be fun but if your looking to pure strategy then chess or checkers is best
 
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thecryptile

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Selling those nearby provinces to your CNs is great. Now my 1.10 Nouvelle Flandre can stretch from sea to shining sea.
 

ultrapowerpie

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Besides, if I was designing the game and didn't want to please the fans of this nation, I would make the game start in 1453 to prevent it for messing with the main theme of the game and Ottoman Empire. Byzantium shined for thousand years, allow it to die at the dawn of modern age. I am not hater of it but seriously, I am occasionally pissed off by such First World Problems as this one,

I am confused. You are posting in a forum about a video game. Of course there are "first world problems" only here. Did you expect this thread to be a discussion on the plight of world hunger? How drinking water is not available to everyone?

And since you're confused, I'll clarify: This is the last straw for him. As others have pointed out, Byzantium keeps taking hits nearly every patch. The arbitrariness of this decision to prevent some revolts from going on is simply the last straw of it. It's not being removed for historical realism, it's being removed

And as I said before, the biggest issue with Byzantium, is that Paradox specifically released DLC for the country. Besides America, there's no other DLC that specifically targets a country with decisions, events and more flavor. This puts a bigger emphasis on a nation as it was quite clear from the beggining (when the DLC was released) that Paradox wanted to players to play Byzantium with this DLC.

As for any other arguments, I'll just go with what bbqftw and The MeInTeam have said.


The Nation Editor looks to be interesting. If nothing else, the random nation start should be amusing.
 

TheMeInTeam

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The game is a history simulator.
Games do need some balance to be fun but if your looking to pure strategy then chess or checkers is best

Your statement goes against the game's own advertising and is logically inconsistent with what happens in the game by design. Making a tired, used 1000x generic canned statement does precisely zero to strengthen your position...in fact it suggests you've no argumentative leg on which to stand.
 

Andrzej2

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Italy no longer gets a penalty when holding Rome.

Why? Catholic Church hasn't acknowledged italian occupation of Rome until 1929 r. Penalty should still be there. Annexation of Papal State was only possible in era of liberalism, secularism and revolution. In Eu4 timeframe annexation of Patrimonium Sancti Petri should be extremly difficult and have grave consequences.

Instead of removing this penalty just remove requirement to have Rome to form Italy. Historically both medieval and napoleonic kingdom of Italy were without Rome, Naples and Sicily. Also United Italy was created in 1861 and had capital in Florence not Rome! Rome was conquered in different war in 1870. So there is no reason why forming Italy should require Rome. Just remove this requirement and add decision to move capital to Rome for Italy.
 

eXistenZ2

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wow, wait a second. The AI couldnt increase/decrease local autonomy before this? Sounds to me like a massive oversight, introducing a game mechanic the AI cant handle.....


Also, something like "MP: Faster savegame transfers" isnt a free feature. I know its very important to make the "free features" list look almost as long a the paid features to appease people, but this isnt the way to do it.
 
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kente

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Also United Italy was created in 1861 and had capital in Florence not Rome! Rome was conquered in different war in 1870. So there is no reason why forming Italy should require Rome. Just remove this requirement and add decision to move capital to Rome for Italy.

wait, the firt capital was Turin because Savoia kings come from there, then they moved the capital to Florence in 1865. The Savoia wanted Rome as capital and they just moved the capital to Florence to go near Rome. But in that timeframe they can't just declar war to the papal state without the intervention of France (in EU4 terms, you can think as The papal state was allied with France), they have just waited the French-Prussian war to annex Rome (in EU4 terms, France didn't join the defensive war).

Anyway, i'm not justified the removal of the penalty, actually i don't care
 

Prom_STar

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well in reality a large part of the natives died of european diseases, but paradox havent modelled that at all so far

The lethality of disease has in general been overblown. The often quoted 90-95% figure comes from Mexico only (but is usually applied to all of the Americas) and includes all deaths following conquest meaning it includes disease (which absolutely was devastating, no question), slavery, famine and the wars themselves. It doesn't make historical sense for a disease mechanic to decimate all the natives, especially if we're not going to model other parts of the world more realistically. If you're going to make a smallpox mechanic for the New World then you'd better come up with a plague mechanic for the Old since there was plague somewhere in Europe every year from 1346 to 1671. BBB haters would be glad, I'm sure, if France lost a million people 1628-31 as they did historically.
 

ragnarokk

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And this happens just now, when I'm finishing my Italy game and got used to lower diprep and no Papal Influence :)
I think this penalty is justified, but should be temporary - after for example 50yrs it should go away.
 

Prom_STar

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have you ever heard of the battle of cajamarca? no native allies there, 150 spanjards brougth down the massive inca empire (with a population comparable to germany) in a matter of years

Hahah, yeah no. It's true the Incan army numbered 80,000 but you're assuming the army was present at Cajamarca. It wasn't. Atahuallpa went to meet Pizarro with only a small escort that was essentially unarmed. The Spanish massacred his attendants and captured the king. The claim the Spanish conquered the Incas without native help is pure fantasy. Pizarro killed Atahuallpa and won the aid of Atahuallpa's enemies in the empire. He did the same thing Cortes did. He played factions against each other.

Conquistadors were not space marines.
 

Taelyn

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- No longer has a penalty to allying multiple Great Powers.

I get the feeling this is going to be very frustrating in SP. Lots of good stuff coming up it looks like though. Really glad economic picked up the autonomy bonus.
 

Seelensturm

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wow, wait a second. The AI couldnt increase/decrease local autonomy before this? Sounds to me like a massive oversight, introducing a game mechanic the AI cant handle.....

There are a lot of other game mechanics which are player exclusive giving him a massive advantage e.g. claim thrones, retreat from battles before morale is broken, scorch earth, generic missions... For more details (only small parts were adressed since I opened the thread): http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-the-Same-Rules-Where-the-AI-fails&highlight=
 

Pugman

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Looks like this is going to be a good update based on patch notes alone. Only thing left is to see how well things actually work (and how many things are broken) when it's released.
 

Freudia

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wow, wait a second. The AI couldnt increase/decrease local autonomy before this? Sounds to me like a massive oversight, introducing a game mechanic the AI cant handle....

The AI can't use sorties, and that's probably a good thing. The amount of 'gamey' nonsense players would do to gimp the AI's military tech is pretty high if the AI could sortie.
 

BCaldeira

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They still get both one general and one explorer.

Still, why take away the ability to get to the New World at the beginning of the game?
It's not like that it's historically inaccurate, since there are records from before 1444 that portuguese sailors had knowledge of new land beyond the Azores and that the seas of Newfoundland were fished for cod.
If you claim to have an historical game, you must enable exploration of open seas in order to allow an historical event. If you don't like that design notion and want to limit the level of open sea exploration, an alternative would be the increase of sea attrition.
 

Thrake

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There are a lot of other game mechanics which are player exclusive giving him a massive advantage e.g. claim thrones, retreat from battles before morale is broken, scorch earth, generic missions... For more details (only small parts were adressed since I opened the thread): http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-the-Same-Rules-Where-the-AI-fails&highlight=

Actually, in early versions, the AI already claimed my throne. It was unusual, but it happened. Scorch earth doesn't matter much I'd say; it's throwing MP for very limited use usually; in most places supply limit is so high it does't matter and otherwise, it's just crossing for 1 month... Retreat matter a lot though; I'd even say it's OP as there isn't even a retreat phase where your men would get high casualties as it should happen.
 

thirawin

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Hmm i dont really like this patch. My cherokee game gets destroyed by the the magical no boats rule, byzantium gets nerfed again. And still no bug fix on the ridiculous wants your provinces modifier, having ireland getting a -64 opinion because he wants southern spain is just stupid.
 

Seelensturm

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Retreat matter a lot though; I'd even say it's OP as there isn't even a retreat phase where your men would get high casualties as it should happen.

Sad thing is the EU3 AI still knew when to retreat. I can only guess they removed it to reduce ping pong and make battles more decisive. For some reason they kept it enabled for the player... Of course it feels awesome to wipe enemy stacks while seldom suffering the same fate yourself. But after only about 100 years you are playing again an untouchable blob who wipes all enemies anyway.