EU3 versus EU4: Things you miss (and things you don't)

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balmung60

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Which place? Just curious, because I've heard of about five thousand different "same places". It's one of those things that everyone points out as obvious, without noticing that everyone is pointing at a different thing.
Obviously the first place you (generic you) found that you liked. I know enough about the average gamer to say that most of them will just repeat the first thing they find that works until such time as it ceases to work, at which point they will find a new thing that works, and just keep using that until it doesn't work any more.
 

sti

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Which place? Just curious, because I've heard of about five thousand different "same places". It's one of those things that everyone points out as obvious, without noticing that everyone is pointing at a different thing.

You did 100% stab until you were at stab 2/3 (3 was probably overkill with events and not really what you were talking about) then you picked a tech and put 100% towards that. I don't see what the other option was?
 

brifbates

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Obviously the first place you (generic you) found that you liked. I know enough about the average gamer to say that most of them will just repeat the first thing they find that works until such time as it ceases to work, at which point they will find a new thing that works, and just keep using that until it doesn't work any more.

This...

The general consensus on the forums was full centralized, full free trade, full quality, etc...

The point is, though, that you used your personal "ideal" in every game no matter who you were playing (mostly also applied to the ideas as well as the sliders) because every nation was exactly the same other than the starting geography. The only difference was how long it took to get there.

Of course. Which applies to Ideas in EU4, as well. And it's called "having a game style". You can follow it every game, or you can fill the mold a nation gives you.

Except this isn't entirely true for EU 4. There are a number of idea groups that you don't select every single game because national circumstances are different. Just for an obvious example, a Novgorod or minor nation forming Russia will absolutely take exploration or expansion as they otherwise can't settle Siberia. While a Muscovy based Russia generally will as well, they don't have to (although the abomination that is Iberian Siberia makes it less optional). There are other examples where idea groups that are nigh mandatory for some nations can be completely ignored by others...
 

WeissRaben

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This...

The general consensus on the forums was full centralized, full free trade, full quality, etc...

The point is, though, that you used your personal "ideal" in every game no matter who you were playing (mostly also applied to the ideas as well as the sliders) because every nation was exactly the same other than the starting geography. The only difference was how long it took to get there.

Not true. Free Trade as a colonial nation was silly: Mercantilism worked much better, while Free Trade weakened your hold on your own CoTs. Quality was good IF you didn't have enormous traits of land à la Russia, in which case Quantity bonuses were compounded to levels that dwarfed the advantages of Quality. The only slider that had an ABSOLUTELY better side was Centralization/Decentralization, and that because it made little sense as a slider, as a whole - the current Local Autonomy system will work much better.

Except this isn't entirely true for EU 4. There are a number of idea groups that you don't select every single game because national circumstances are different. Just for an obvious example, a Novgorod or minor nation forming Russia will absolutely take exploration or expansion as they otherwise can't settle Siberia. While a Muscovy based Russia generally will as well, they don't have to (although the abomination that is Iberian Siberia makes it less optional). There are other examples where idea groups that are nigh mandatory for some nations can be completely ignored by others...

The abominations that are UNIs shouldn't really matter - it was merchants who first settled Siberia and started the race to the Pacific, so the idea of "DURR MUSCOVITE RUSSIA SPECIAL" irks me to no end. You are right, it is not completely true for EU4, but that because of logical fallacies the size of a small semi in how the game is designed.
 

calvinhobbeslik

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The abominations that are UNIs shouldn't really matter - it was merchants who first settled Siberia and started the race to the Pacific, so the idea of "DURR MUSCOVITE RUSSIA SPECIAL" irks me to no end. You are right, it is not completely true for EU4, but that because of logical fallacies the size of a small semi in how the game is designed.

What does "UNI" stand for?
 

Beagá

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Unique national ideas?

Yes they are stupid. IMO the current NI system could be scrapped and the Policy system to be VASTLY improved upon. Stupid that a Bavaria that fights war for a century with military focus all the game has worse military than Branderburg because they are "ubermensch".

IMO if you have, say, 2 military policies then after some time you could unlock a third, MUCH more powerful Policy. Would represent stuff like the long term investment Prussia and Sweden did.
 

Red John

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I miss sliders.

'Twas a simpler time, then. You got your quality and your quantity, and you could only have one.

:(
 

Red John

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But what then of countries like France (especially Revolutionary France) and Prussia that did both?

You cannot have both 'quality' oriented troops and also have recruiting standards that aim for 'quantity'.

OP NIs give the military powers their fancy bonuses.
 

Beagá

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You cannot have both 'quality' oriented troops and also have recruiting standards that aim for 'quantity'.

OP NIs give the military powers their fancy bonuses.

That is just plain wrong. One word: Prussia.

HOW the game simulates that is another history (sliders? Nis?), but there is more than enough proof that you CAN have both.
 

Red John

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That is just plain wrong.

I take quantity as to recruiting every available man and woman in your nation.

This includes those of an older age, and those whom have complications which would normally make them unfit for combat.

Or is the idea 'The Old and Infirm' actually meant to mean young, strong people?

I take quality as to recruiting the best of the best, so to speak. Those with a higher physical capability or some such, whom will receive extensive and obviously trying training.

I'm struggling to comprehend how an army can hire 'The Old and Infirm' but also be called an extremely quality-oriented army.
 

Hootieleece

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Non Expiring Cores(as long a province wasn't Culture converted or Cultural Unity Province Decision) So you could possibly break up blobs past 1650. And of course waiting for the "Claims on my rivals" event instead of just fabricating them for free with a diplomat.
 

Beagá

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I'm struggling to comprehend how an army can hire 'The Old and Infirm' but also be called an extremely quality-oriented army.

Again, how the game simulates things is NOT the question.

Relative to Austria, Prussia had quantity AND quality.
 

WeissRaben

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  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
Unique national ideas?

Yes they are stupid. IMO the current NI system could be scrapped and the Policy system to be VASTLY improved upon. Stupid that a Bavaria that fights war for a century with military focus all the game has worse military than Branderburg because they are "ubermensch".

IMO if you have, say, 2 military policies then after some time you could unlock a third, MUCH more powerful Policy. Would represent stuff like the long term investment Prussia and Sweden did.

Agree on the whole line.

(Also yes, UNI = Unique National Ideas.)