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otacu

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Historical names and flavour for advisors and leaders. (should move to sub forum)

This is a serious proposal for integration of Historical Leaders/Advisors/Monarchs into the Eu3 dynamic system.

First of all: this system won't change the normal dynamic Eu3 system, it will just add proper names for historical flavour. No changes to game balance and it's not a complete rework of how the game handle dynamic generated characters.

To sum it up it's just a method that analyse a “random generated” character, check the csv file for conditions and if the conditions are met an historical name is given (instead of a random one).

Advisors

This is the easiest part. As it is now the advisors are randomly generated by tech groups. It's just a random name, type and value. But after the starting advisors die we can't get anyone remotely resembling an historic character.
This could be solved by the creation of a csv file for each technology group. Let's say for example latin_advisors.csv that will have lines that look something like this:

Code:
1;Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio;1571;1610;artist;3;5;LombardiaID;ReligionID;NationalIdeaID;GovernmentID;

The first field is the ID, the second one is the name, then birth date, death date, type of advisor, minimum skill, maximum skill, province where the advisor is generated, religion required (optional), national idea required (optional), Government (optional).

This way when the game tries to generate an artist advisor it just check the latin_advisors.csv file. Let's say the game generated John Smith, Artist with skill 4 in the year 1600. The game check which advisors met the conditions (skills are between 3 and 5) and if more than one met the conditions only one at random is choosen (or a “priority” field can be added) and generated in the speficic province(in the csv there is the province id... simply put i don't know what's Lombardia province id).
If no advisor from the files met the conditions the name is left untouched and the system goes the default random route.

No harm to game balance is done. Only the names are changed. With a completely empty latin_advisors.csv file there is no change from the random generation at all.

The religion, NationalIdea and Government fields are just added to make the system more selective. To employ that advisor the country needs to have a specific religion or NationalIdea or Government. For example a CAT tag can be added to Torquemada.

The birth and death dates shouldn't worry the dynamic system fans. It's just there to prevent Newton to pop up in 1480. When checking the file for advisors the game should only check advisors with proper dates. In 1600 only birthdates before 1580 could trigger the advisor (my assumptions is that an advisor should be at least 20 years old... but that number could be changed or made itself random in a believable range). Death date is completely unnecessary since the good point of the new system is that we won't know when our characters will die.... but i left it in the file cause it looks more elegant (and could be informative for those browsing it) and maybe there coulde be an option to enable historical deaths for DIE HARD historical flavour fanboys. But that's a marginal thing.

Generals – Admirals – Conquistadors – Explorers

It's a bit more complex than advisors generation since they have 4 different skills instead of one (like the advisors). This time we will have a csv file for every country. For example a england.csv that will have lines that will look like this:

Code:
1;Horatio Nelson;1758;1805;admiral;3;3;3;3;9;9;9;9;EastAnglia;Religion,NationalIdea,Government;

It's the same as the advisors except that here the first four numbers after the type field (admiral) are the minimum skill values and the other four are the maximum values. This is just to prevent seeing awesome generals getting poor values.... but this could be simply avoided and go for complete random values by just leaving the fields empty. When a province ID is given the country must own that province... if it's left empty it's not necessary (to give specific countries historical leaders that were of foreign origin).
The generation works exactly like before. The game generate a random admiral when needed and if the conditions are met it gets an historical name.


It would be cool to add a "picture" field too to let historical leaders have images (when available).

P.s. I am working on a similar way to have historical monarchs too but that's gonna be a lot more tricky. I'm gonna post it later on.

Final word

I'd like to have some feedback from the devs since imho this way "all is gained and nothing is lost" for the dynamic system philosopy of Eu3. It's not a big chore to implement this and it's not going to be a big burden for the CPU. But will surely make a lot of people happy. :)


P.s.2. Way to celebrate my 100th post.... :rofl:
 
Last edited:

von Rosen

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You still get the problem with knowing beforehand that a great advisor is going to spring up in a certain province, even more so with a great general. This would steer away from the dynamic system since players would check the year and try to posess the golden goose before the egg hatches.
I think your system would work beautifully. But it is ultimately a step not taken, and I believe it was not taken because it would be less dynamic than the chosen model.
 

minority

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Well, I think he means that these values would only be taken IF a randomly generated advisor pops out in the province. Otherwise we won't see them.

So it perfectly avoids messing up any system, but simply allow us to control their naming.

However as this is only a flavour change, I won't expect it to be at the top of Paradox's todo list.

cheers
 

otacu

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Minority is right.

This is simply a "name filter". So it won't change the game balance and "certain provinces" won't be see as golden gooses.

Put it very simply it works like this

- Random generated leader from the game
- Game check if conditions in csv are met
- positive response. The random generated leader gets the historical name and mantain the random generated skills
- negative response. The random generated leader gets its random generated name.

In the example is not like England or other countries will try to own EastAnglia to get Nelson as a great Admiral. They still have to recruit an admiral with high skill and if the conditions are met the admiral is named "Nelson" but still has the random generated skills.
So there is 0 advantages in game terms.... just historical names for flavour.

But i guess it would be much more cool for Spain in 1492 to try to recruit an explorer and get Columbus instead of a generic "Hernandez".
 

Petrarca

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That would be a nice touch to recapture the historical feel without the determinism too. I don't care if Britain's greatest admiral is Saumarez instead of Nelson so long as it is a Briton of note.
 

kingsword

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Lucky said:
I'd just be happy to have historical names with random stats and times.

I have to disagree as I just saw Piri Reis in demo as a 3-star, certainly underwhelming to see people of great ability as average joe's.
 

Zander

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Excellent thinking "outside the box". I don't know if Paradox will want to do the work for this (and then people would have to do the work to make the files), but it would be a great addition. (Still can't do anything for monarchs, sadly.)
 

Duuk

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von Rosen said:
You still get the problem with knowing beforehand that a great advisor is going to spring up in a certain province, even more so with a great general. This would steer away from the dynamic system since players would check the year and try to posess the golden goose before the egg hatches.
I think your system would work beautifully. But it is ultimately a step not taken, and I believe it was not taken because it would be less dynamic than the chosen model.

If I'm reading it right, what he's suggesting isn't that the advisor WILL pop up. Just that *if* one pops up instead of being Bob the Randomly Named Artist it would use a historical name IF AND ONLY IF the stats of Bob the Randomly Named Artist are within the definitions of that artist.

So basically, if you've been playing 100 years of the game and see the name of someone you recognize, you know he's more likely to be a 5-Star advisor instead of a 1 star chump.
 

Enoch Root

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I truly hope this system is implemented (or at least if it is possible to mod it), since IMHO, flavor is the whole point of the advisor system. I don't care if I have Mike The Musician in my court giving me a stability bonus, but I'd love to have Johan Sebastian Bach in my court, even if he gave me the same bonus.
 

EUnderhill

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Enoch Root said:
I truly hope this system is implemented (or at least if it is possible to mod it), since IMHO, flavor is the whole point of the advisor system. I don't care if I have Mike The Musician in my court giving me a stability bonus, but I'd love to have Johan Sebastian Bach in my court, even if he gave me the same bonus.
The idea of JS Bach giving a stability BONUS leaves an off-flavor in my mouth, perhaps a small penalty (aka malus ;) ) and a gob of prestige 75 years after his death (but only if you hire Mendelssohn in Vicky II) - IMO CPE Bach would be a much better choice for an advisor. The great advantage to generic advisors is that it moots such pedantics as the preceding sentences.
 

otacu

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Well if you don't like the idea of JS Bach as an advisor you can simply put him out of the csv file and you will never see him in a Eu3 game.

This name filter is just a powerfull instrument to give more historical flavour to the game (and i guess it's a thing that 100% of the players want), leave the dinamic system philosophy of Eu3 untouched and give the modders army another thing to discuss and debate (who should we include? what range of skill should that general have?).

:D Mr.T said it's "interesting". I hope to see it in a future patch since it's 100% compatible with the Eu3 engine.
 

Enoch Root

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EUnderhill said:
The idea of JS Bach giving a stability BONUS leaves an off-flavor in my mouth, perhaps a small penalty (aka malus ;) ) and a gob of prestige 75 years after his death (but only if you hire Mendelssohn in Vicky II) - IMO CPE Bach would be a much better choice for an advisor. The great advantage to generic advisors is that it moots such pedantics as the preceding sentences.

It was, you know, an example ;), and every artist advisors give an stability bonus after all...

My point is that the advisor system makes no sense if you have random generic guys instead of actual names. That's it.
 

Jodien

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If the stated conditions are met for a historical name, the generated leader's stats will still be random, am I right? So the whole point is to give the new leader a historical name, that's all?

Code:
1;Horatio Nelson;1758;1805;admiral;3;3;3;3;9;9;9;9;EastAngli  a;Religion,NationalIdea,Government;

What if then, in this example, the leader is generated and given the name Nelson in 1804? Would he die in 1805?

Another question. Why are all those codes include a space somewhere in the middle. (ie. East Angli a)?
 

unmerged(12990)

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Jodien said:
If the stated conditions are met for a historical name, the generated leader's stats will still be random, am I right? So the whole point is to give the new leader a historical name, that's all?

Yes and no. If the random generated leaders/advisors' stats fell within the range that e.g. Leonardo Da Vinci would have, then that random guy would be named Leonardo Da Vinci instead of something else.
If the stats weren't high enough, he would just get a random name.

Well the stats could be LOW as well, we should come up with some historical names of not so good generals and advisors. :rofl: